Management Threads | Structure. Standards. Habits.

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Trade Bo and Miller eatly on. Significantly weakens the team and gives them a chance at Bedard/Carlsson/Fantilli.

Trade Kuzmenko at the deadline for a haul.

Don't hand out any bloated ufa contracts. Don't sign aging players to fat contracts.

Don't spend money as soon as cap space opens up on win-now pieces.

Don't trade futures for win-now pieces.

Use cap space to acquire assets from cap-strapped teams.

It also depends how far back you want to go for when people were screaming for a rebuild.

During the last couple Jimbo years we all wanted one and it would've sped up a rebuild quite a lot. I'm not advocating for a quick turnaround anymore. The time for that has passed. Realistically they should've been in a full rebuild 5 years ago.

If done adequately, 5 years isn't unreasonable for a competitive playoff team. What're the chances of this core winning a cup in the next 5 years with the current game plan? Be honest.

What happens if they miss the playoffs the next two years? Do you think the core will want to stick around even if they aren't rebuilding, but instead "trying to make the playoffs"?
horvat / miller traded with one year left - re tooling does kuzmenko still happen? likely not
i see the take assets from cap strapped teams

everything else doesn't get you anything extra

so like i said

this is probably the frustrating part for some of these posters that refute it so heavily
 
horvat / miller traded with one year left - re tooling does kuzmenko still happen? likely not
i see the take assets from cap strapped teams

everything else doesn't get you anything extra

so like i said

this is probably the frustrating part for some of these posters that refute it so heavily
I didn't say it was a quick path to winning. If the current core wants out, that's their choice. It's about much more than their personal aspirations.

The entire point of what I'd like to see is to accumulate tons of assets and build through the draft while also poaching good pieces from cap-strapped teams ala Seattle with Bjorkstrand.

Have a discernable long-term vision. Not a reactionary "take it one year at a time" plan that changes course depending on how the team is playing for half a year.
 
a) once again, Petey, Huges and Demko said they don't want to be part of a rebuild. i love how you just glaze over that and pretend they don't actually mean it.

We have been seeing this live used for years. Pete will leave if we don't make the playoffs in 2023, we can't take the time to rebuild. Pete will leave if we don't make the playoffs in 2022, we can't take the time to rebuild. Pete will leave if we don't make the playoffs in 2021, we can't take the time to rebuild. We can't trade UFAs we aren't resigning at the deadline because we are in a 2020 wildcard hunt and Pete wouldn't like it. Etc.

Yet the team sucked like a rebuilding team sucked anyways and he's still here and we wasted huge opportunities to secure the future.
 
We have been seeing this live used for years. Pete will leave if we don't make the playoffs in 2023, we can't take the time to rebuild. Pete will leave if we don't make the playoffs in 2022, we can't take the time to rebuild. Pete will leave if we don't make the playoffs in 2021, we can't take the time to rebuild. We can't trade UFAs we aren't resigning at the deadline because we are in a 2020 wildcard hunt and Pete wouldn't like it. Etc.

Yet the team sucked like a rebuilding team sucked anyways and he's still here and we wasted huge opportunities to secure the future.
The "But Pettersson" line is the new "cap space doesn't matter if you don't use it" line that we used to hear constantly in the Benning era to justify his garbage UFA contract signings.
 
We have been seeing this live used for years. Pete will leave if we don't make the playoffs in 2023, we can't take the time to rebuild. Pete will leave if we don't make the playoffs in 2022, we can't take the time to rebuild. Pete will leave if we don't make the playoffs in 2021, we can't take the time to rebuild. We can't trade UFAs we aren't resigning at the deadline because we are in a 2020 wildcard hunt and Pete wouldn't like it. Etc.

Yet the team sucked like a rebuilding team sucked anyways and he's still here and we wasted huge opportunities to secure the future.
Not sure why you need to make shit up.

We actually haven’t seen this for years, this was only said last year. I don’t think this question was raised until they signed the latest extension. Nobody expects players on ELC to complain about being in a rebuild. If anything we should have been rebuilding while they were on the ELC or before that.
 
Not sure why you need to make shit up.

We actually haven’t seen this for years, this was only said last year. I don’t think this question was raised until they signed the latest extension. Nobody expects players on ELC to complain about being in a rebuild. If anything we should have been rebuilding while they were on the ELC or before that.

There wasn’t a peep about it until the Swedish interview in 2021 when Benning took forever to sign him and Hughes because he was a terrible manager who emptied his pockets for middling players and pinched Pennie’s on stars. I don’t think we should be afraid of losing anyone at this point. I think if you’re afraid, you are prone to dumb mistakes.

But if you have to say goodbye, make it a kings ransom and not for nothing. Never let them walk. That’s why I don’t get people who say this American won’t sign don’t draft him, etc. you aren’t drafting a player, you’re drafting an asset and it’s your responsibility to squeeze everything you can from that asset. As long as you don’t get Foxed, you’re fine.
 
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don’t think the ep stuff is even worth talking about atm

i think it was more of a conversation six months ago and before when the media ITKs were being coy about it and it seemed like the organization was a mess

but reports are essentially only that he is happy right now so i dont see the point

i usually buy the if theres smoke theres fire thing but theres zero smoke here
 
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don’t think the ep stuff is even worth talking about atm

i think it was more of a conversation six months ago and before when the media ITKs were being coy about it and it seemed like the organization was a mess

but reports are essentially only that he is happy right now so i dont see the point

i usually buy the if theres smoke theres fire thing but theres zero smoke here
I’d say there is at least some smoke. He flat out didn’t show up 4 months of a season. Constantly is pouting and appears unhappy. The comments about not wanting to rebuild. I’d say there is reason to be concerned until he signs long term
 
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I’d say there is at least some smoke. He flat out didn’t show up 4 months of a season. Constantly is pouting and appears unhappy. The comments about not wanting to rebuild. I’d say there is reason to be concerned until he signs long term
Zero smoke within the last six months is what I meant.

I’ll be concerned if we get to day one of training camp and nothing is done (or if there’s an update or comment that causes concern)
 
There is no 'but EP', he's only had 1 good season where he missed the playoffs. Other than that he's made it, played like shit, or been injured and not able to play anyway. Guys an RFA, very rarely do they strong arm trades.

It's about Hughes remaining 4 years, 3 until he's due for an extension as a pending UFA. In a world where Americans are running back home. JT was an exception.

'one step back, two steps forward bro, just a few rebuild years' = the remainder of our best players controlled years or more, while seeing that as long as our top guys are on the team you won't be drafting any replacements for them.

The 'rebuild' crowd, is the mediocrity crowd they complain about.
 
Zero smoke within the last six months is what I meant.

I’ll be concerned if we get to day one of training camp and nothing is done (or if there’s an update or comment that causes concern)
Oh yes totally agree. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that his tone/ his agents tone has been more positive since new management came in and have been retooling vs rebuilding. But the last part is speculation
 
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I don't know, Eichel still got 4 good pieces after having more concerning injury issues. I don't think it would have changed much, with the expectation that Hronek would be %100 by training camp. No surgery was required.

"Huge price" is over the top here. It was more like a smallish overpay if anything. I think it absolutely would've been a mid-1st plus.
Did you just compare Hronek with Eichel?
 
There is no 'but EP', he's only had 1 good season where he missed the playoffs. Other than that he's made it, played like shit, or been injured and not able to play anyway. Guys an RFA, very rarely do they strong arm trades.

It's about Hughes remaining 4 years, 3 until he's due for an extension as a pending UFA. In a world where Americans are running back home. JT was an exception.

'one step back, two steps forward bro, just a few rebuild years' = the remainder of our best players controlled years or more, while seeing that as long as our top guys are on the team you won't be drafting any replacements for them.

The 'rebuild' crowd, is the mediocrity crowd they complain about.
Retool too hard so you gotta just wave the flag and give up. Why try when shits hard, take the easy way out
 
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It's incredible how this make-believe world keeps getting parroted as an option and the bolded just keeps getting ignored.
That is what NHL players, especially once in their prime, always say.

Im sure you know this but it suits your argument so why not use it anyways...
 
There is no 'but EP', he's only had 1 good season where he missed the playoffs. Other than that he's made it, played like shit, or been injured and not able to play anyway. Guys an RFA, very rarely do they strong arm trades.

It's about Hughes remaining 4 years, 3 until he's due for an extension as a pending UFA. In a world where Americans are running back home. JT was an exception.

'one step back, two steps forward bro, just a few rebuild years' = the remainder of our best players controlled years or more, while seeing that as long as our top guys are on the team you won't be drafting any replacements for them.

The 'rebuild' crowd, is the mediocrity crowd they complain about.
No one wants to rebuild anymore, you're jousting at a windmill. The opportunity to maximize the already lost last two years is long gone.

And there was no opportunity cost to taking advantage of those lost seasons, we just chose not to because management didn't realize how far away we were until we were already a good ways into this season.
 
Did you just compare Hronek with Eichel?
Uh, not value-wise, no.

Hronek is a solid player, worth less than Eichel - which is reflected in the prices paid. It doesn't make sense that a team is happy to risk 4 quality pieces on a really good player (significantly more injured), but the idea of risking 2 quality pieces on a good player (injured but not requiring surgery) is bad business. It's literally the exact same thing, just on a lesser scale.
 
There is no 'but EP', he's only had 1 good season where he missed the playoffs. Other than that he's made it, played like shit, or been injured and not able to play anyway. Guys an RFA, very rarely do they strong arm trades.

It's about Hughes remaining 4 years, 3 until he's due for an extension as a pending UFA. In a world where Americans are running back home. JT was an exception.

'one step back, two steps forward bro, just a few rebuild years' = the remainder of our best players controlled years or more, while seeing that as long as our top guys are on the team you won't be drafting any replacements for them.

The 'rebuild' crowd, is the mediocrity crowd they complain about.
Not sure what you've been watching the last decade but it sure stinks of medocrity at best to me.

Its looking like more medocrity to come, too. Especially with this 4th iteration of a retool taking place.
 
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The "But Pettersson" line is the new "cap space doesn't matter if you don't use it" line that we used to hear constantly in the Benning era to justify his garbage UFA contract signings.
The retool crowd cannot concede this point because their house of cards argument will fall apart if they do.

Uh, not value-wise, no.

Hronek is a solid player, worth less than Eichel - which is reflected in the prices paid. It doesn't make sense that a team is happy to risk 4 quality pieces on a really good player (significantly more injured), but the idea of risking 2 quality pieces on a good player (injured but not requiring surgery) is bad business. It's literally the exact same thing, just on a lesser scale.
You CANNOT ignore the fact that of these teams has made the playoffs once in a decade and the other has missed the playoffs ONCE in six years and that was after they acquierd said piece.

This is crucial context.
 
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Not sure what you've been watching the last decade but it sure stinks of medocrity at best to me.

Its looking like more medocrity to come, too. Especially with this 4th iteration of a retool taking place.

At least, this time, it's not Jim f***ing Benning at the helm. A retool is not intrinsically a bad thing, it just needs to be done competently.
Jury's out on that, but turning around the supertanker of failure takes a while.
 
No one wants to rebuild anymore, you're jousting at a windmill. The opportunity to maximize the already lost last two years is long gone.

And there was no opportunity cost to taking advantage of those lost seasons, we just chose not to because management didn't realize how far away we were until we were already a good ways into this season.
Joustimg at a windmill is one of best things i have heard in some time
 
You CANNOT ignore the fact that of these teams has made the playoffs once in a decade and the other has missed the playoffs ONCE in six years and that was after they acquierd said piece.

This is crucial context.
The other poster was saying Hronek should have been acquired for cheaper due to being injured at the time of the deal, this doesn't have anything to do with being a playoff team.

I used Eichel as an example of a team still paying up for an injured player. Another poster seemed shocked I would compare the 2 players (which I wasn't doing), I compared their situation - both injured/both not discounted.
 
I wouldn't put anything past this org. But I am more leaning towards them just making a mistake by even letting Hronek return for the final four games.

Again, I'm not disagreeing that there have been issues in the past with the Canucks trainers/medical personnel. However, you really need to explain what the 'mistake' is.

Simply letting a player, play, isn't in and of itself a mistake. There are literal thousands of examples of players who do things like:

- join the opening warmups before a game to see how they're feeling
- engage in a soft practice
- play a shift after a potential injury to see how they're feeling

The weird thing with sports injuries is that there are instances where you might feel great and then one small bump cocks everything up. Or your injury is pretty bad, but you feel okay.

There was a pretty infamous moment last year with a professional wrestler, Cody Rhodes, tore his pectoral. It looked gruesome but he competed a bit longer before rehabbing because there wasn't really any further damage that could be done, again, despite how bad the injury looked.

I really don't think that management forced him back into action to show off their new acquisition, which is how I'm interpreting your argument. (Otherwise, what is the reason for doing this?) It is incredibly short-sighted to a level that even Benning would have to aspire to reach.

This is significantly different from Pearson's situation because:

- There was some sort of misdiagnosis. Something happened that led to Pearson's significant setback. Whether it was bad luck in the rehab/healing process, a mistake on the Canucks end or something else, we won't know
- The Canucks medical staff/trainers were different. Again, Allvin and JR cleaned house last year, including removing Roger Takahashi (who had been with the team for like 20 years.) I'm curious if this was to try and insulate the Canucks from culpability for a potential NHLPA grievance/lawsuit from Pearson and/or if it came as a result of the brouhaha with Pearson's hand.
- There is nothing to indicate that Hronek has suffered any sort of significant setback. Rather, him coming back for a few games and then being put back on the shelf is routine SOP for all teams across the league. Soft tissue injuries are weird and it's hard to predict things.

I am getting flak because I dared to have the opinion that maybe the trade was a mistake and an overpayment to boot.

Well, that's a different argument and kettle of fish from what was being discussed, if you're pairing these arguments together, then yeah, people are gonna drag you over it, because...

I cited injury concerns as a leading factor for that

...this is why people are giving you grief. You haven't really done a great job of explaining what the 'injury concerns' are beyond this shoulder injury. Other posters have pointed out that the concussions are more of a concern, but you were talking about his shoulder while trying to portray the Canucks staff as ranging from incompetent to malicious. Again, the latter part is what I find unbelievable.

along with believing that the Canucks paid a huge price when they aren't far enough along in their competitive cycle.

There are arguments you can make about that. I'm still up in the air re: the price paid for Hronek, but the move itself is something I had been wanting to see for f***ing eons: trading for a player who has enough of a skillset and potential where they could blossom into being a useful player vs chasing players based on either draft pedigree (OEL, Gudbranson, Sutter, Sbisa, etc.) or veteran status (Roussel, Prust, et al.)

The competitive cycle thing, I personally disagree with, and the arguments re: we need to be doing something if we want to keep Hughes/EP/Demko are valid, IMO. Unless you're Shane Doan, not a lot of players want to stick around longterm with a team that's struggling.

I think Hughes/EP/Demko are worth building around, although I respect people who feel another course of action should be taken.
 
The other poster was saying Hronek should have been acquired for cheaper due to being injured at the time of the deal, this doesn't have anything to do with being a playoff team.

I used Eichel as an example of a team still paying up for an injured player. Another poster seemed shocked I would compare the 2 players (which I wasn't doing), I compared their situation - both injured/both not discounted.

Gotcha. My bad.

In a vacuum this makes sense.
 
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