Management Threads | Structure. Standards. Habits.

[Hoglander]

Does your business operate on a buyout window of one or two weeks per year were you can sack people? Unless you run by something resembling the NHLs CBA it's a pointless comparison. The players aren't going to come in and download all the accounts and steal the office stationary

Giving a player a heads up on a buyout is no different from giving a UFA a heads up that you will be going in a different direction. You don't have to do it but it makes no difference if you do.

Where in the CBA, does it say that the team has to telegraph their buyouts to the players?

Yes, it is very different from talking contracts during the pre-UFA period. I don't even...

This wasn't the average buyout, where they knew that going into the offseason, they were going to buyout this player. They were pursuing other avenues, and used the buyout as a last resort. This wasn't some guaranteed thing that they were sitting on for weeks, there was still opportunity for things to change before the buyout period opened. The last thing they should have done, was tell OEL before it was %100 guaranteed to happen.

 

[arttk]

maybe i'm a bit confused as to the topic at hand, but these are all ages of players in their prime years that fit within opening a contention window

and saying they're veterans on the downside of their career is a pretty big stretch

Doesn’t fit his narrative

 

[arttk]

roster players brought in/resigned by jr/allvin:

miller 30
mikheyev 28
wolanin 28
kuzmenko 27
joshua 27
beauvillier 26
boeser 26 (*)
hronek 25
aman 23

Because young rosters players are always available as UFA to sign right and RFA status doesn’t exist. If you look at the full pic you are missing.

Hirose
Johansson
mcward
Sasson
Tolopilo
Bains

 

[Lindgren]

"Pretending your small business is the same as a NHL team is Pejorative Slured."

The ad hominem part was the "Pejorative Slured", the HFBoards euphemism for the "R" word.

Also, LOL at the misspelled word "Slured." Like, c'mon guys, get it together.

It's an insult directed at the argument. It's not an ad hominen.

"Your argument is amazingly stupid, dumb, and moronic." That's an unhelpful comment, but it's not an ad hominem.

"Your argument is wrong, because you're an idiot." That's an ad hominem.

 

[tradervik]

It's an insult directed at the argument. It's not an ad hominen.

"Your argument is amazingly stupid, dumb, and moronic." That's an unhelpful comment, but it's not an ad hominem.

"Your argument is wrong, because you're an idiot." That's an ad hominem.

You are technically correct but wouldn’t you take it personally if someone wrote that your post is amazingly stupid, etc?

 

[Lindgren]

You are technically correct but wouldn’t you take it personally if someone wrote that your post is amazingly stupid, etc?

Sure, I might take it personally. But I wouldn't call it an ad hominem, because it isn't one.

"Your argument is weak, because it's based on a false equivalence." That's not an ad hominem.

"Your argument is $#&^%$# stupid, because it's based on a false equivalence." That's rude and unhelpful, but it's no more an ad hominem than the first example is.

 

[credulous]

Because young rosters players are always available as UFA to sign right and RFA status doesn’t exist. If you look at the full pic you are missing.

Hirose
Johansson
mcward
Sasson
Tolopilo
Bains

none of those are roster players yet. hirose might be close

 

[arttk]

none of those are roster players yet. hirose might be close

Roster and young means they are not going to be a UFA and they are the most expensive piece to acquire because no teams wants to give up young roster players.

Saying they didn’t acquire any young roster player as a FA or trade is like true for 99% of the league.

 

[Peen]

i don’t think there’s anything worthwhile from trying to discuss the intricacies of what each sentence technically can be classified as but i do think people really struggle with the idea that they are talking to another human, but then are surprised when someone retaliates

punch could have worded that far better, but i don’t think he genuinely meant harm there. at least i haven’t seen him do that frequently to make me think otherwise.

anyways management etc.

still haven’t heard from the old turtle man in a loooooong time and we are a week away from the draft.

wonder if he appears this week or if PA is essentially thrown to the wolves again

 

[Vector]

still haven’t heard from the old turtle man in a loooooong time and we are a week away from the draft.

wonder if he appears this week or if PA is essentially thrown to the wolves again

Allvin handled the end of year press conference quite well so he’ll be doing this one and it’ll be fine.

 

[Peen]

Allvin handled the end of year press conference quite well so he’ll be doing this one and it’ll be fine.

I agree; he did do well in that. But it shouldn’t be his sole role. JR is the president. He needs to be front facing.

 

[strattonius]

I agree; he did do well in that. But it shouldn’t be his sole role. JR is the president. He needs to be front facing.

Rutherford is very transparent. Right before the draft I'm not certain that's what they want. I don't see why we need Rutherford to talk.

 

[Vector]

I agree; he did do well in that. But it shouldn’t be his sole role. JR is the president. He needs to be front facing.

Eh, not really. It’s more fun when the old man is acting like my Dad, talking to much, and is completely unfiltered but Allvin is the one making the majority of the hockey decisions.

Now if the Canucks finally got the practice facility project underway then Rutherford needs to be there.

However, I would like to see Rutherford at the end of year media stuff but I get why he skipped it this season. Even if it was a little juvenile.

 

[Peen]

Rutherford is very transparent. Right before the draft I'm not certain that's what they want. I don't see why we need Rutherford to talk.

Sure, that’s pretty fair. But I think that leads me to more questions.

Why even have him as a president instead of just an advisor or something then? Like this isn’t normal for someone in his tole

Do you think he will speak after the draft? My guess would be he only speaks if everything goes well and they do everything they wanted to accomplish.

 

[Hoglander]

Where in the CBA, does it say that the team has to telegraph their buyouts to the players?

Yes, it is very different from talking contracts during the pre-UFA period. I don't even...

This wasn't the average buyout, where they knew that going into the offseason, they were going to buyout this player. They were pursuing other avenues, and used the buyout as a last resort. This wasn't some guaranteed thing that they were sitting on for weeks, there was still opportunity for things to change before the buyout period opened. The last thing they should have done, was tell OEL before it was %100 guaranteed to happen.

Pulled an all-nighter, so maybe I was interpreting things wrong here. If it was simply about notifying OEL mere minutes before making the buyout announcement, then yeah, that's something I would have done for sure, as a GM. Seen this happen a number of times in the NHL over the years, but it's still cheesy.

 

[strattonius]

Sure, that’s pretty fair. But I think that leads me to more questions.

Why even have him as a president instead of just an advisor or something then? Like this isn’t normal for someone in his tole

Do you think he will speak after the draft? My guess would be he only speaks if everything goes well and they do everything they wanted to accomplish.

I don't follow other teams closely so I'm not certain if this is normal for a president but I don't see it as strange either?

Leading up to the draft and after we just bought out OEL questions will be about what our plans in free agency are, are we planning trades and what type of player are we looking at drafting. All decisions made by Alvin...so yeah why do we need to hear Rutherford again?

 

[rypper]

Personally I would have sent OEL a barbershop quartet to his house to inform him of his buyout.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

"Pretending your small business is the same as a NHL team is Pejorative Slured."

The ad hominem part was the "Pejorative Slured", the HFBoards euphemism for the "R" word.

Also, LOL at the misspelled word "Slured." Like, c'mon guys, get it together.

Thats actually fair.

I was pissed off at something completely unrelated to hockey or hfboards when I wrote that. Didnt remember I used that word... should not have done that

It wanst meant as an ad hominemn.

The notion that you can compare a normal small business and their PR considerations and a business like an NHL team that makes its business on its public image is absurd.

Either way I was wrong on a bunch of things related to this and Id add this to the list.

Pulled an all-nighter, so maybe I was interpreting things wrong here. If it was simply about notifying OEL mere minutes before making the buyout announcement, then yeah, that's something I would have done for sure, as a GM. Seen this happen a number of times in the NHL over the years, but it's still cheesy.

This is what I was talking about.

And apparently it did happen.

So sorry on both accounts.

 

[Lindgren]

Personally I would have sent OEL a barbershop quartet to his house to inform him of his buyout.

Get the guys from the "Doors Galore" commercial!

 

[tradervik]

"Pretending your small business is the same as a NHL team is Pejorative Slured."

The ad hominem part was the "Pejorative Slured", the HFBoards euphemism for the "R" word.

Also, LOL at the misspelled word "Slured." Like, c'mon guys, get it together.

HFBoards would be more fun if the software randomly replaced horses in peoples’ lightbulbs.

 

[racerjoe]

Nothing catastrophic is going to happen from 1-2 developmental seasons as long as there is an upward trend resulting from it.

We were going to be bad this season and last anyways, it would have been better to profit from it and be better set up for the future. Instead we were bad anyways, but didn't benefit from it at all.

You missed the point completely.

 

[racerjoe]

Horvat was younger than Miller, so they didn't get that much younger in that trade. I also would have preferred not to trade premium future assets for Hronek when Marino was available for a much softer price.

They also haven't taken a ton of bargain bin bets, outside of a guy like Dakota Joshua, which ended up as a nice base hit. They haven't tried to accumulate more liquid assets. They haven't really used any cap space creatively.

We have had this conversation before, but to get Marino, it would have cost us pretty damn close to what we paid for Hronek. It would have been last years 1st and a 3rd. We didn't have an asset as good as Smith, who looks like historically had a value of a first.

What about the College and European UFA's this year? I mean I am all for making those bets, but a roster can only carry so many players, and have so many contract slots. You can't take an unlimited number of them.

 

[arttk]

i don’t think there’s anything worthwhile from trying to discuss the intricacies of what each sentence technically can be classified as but i do think people really struggle with the idea that they are talking to another human, but then are surprised when someone retaliates

punch could have worded that far better, but i don’t think he genuinely meant harm there. at least i haven’t seen him do that frequently to make me think otherwise.

anyways management etc.

still haven’t heard from the old turtle man in a loooooong time and we are a week away from the draft.

wonder if he appears this week or if PA is essentially thrown to the wolves again

He’s the GM, doing press is his job. Maybe just look at it from the perspective of his training wheels are off.

Honestly not sure what JR did so horribly that he deserves to be called turtle man or mole man.

Nothing catastrophic is going to happen from 1-2 developmental seasons as long as there is an upward trend resulting from it.

We were going to be bad this season and last anyways, it would have been better to profit from it and be better set up for the future. Instead we were bad anyways, but didn't benefit from it at all.

Trading away Miller and Bo will lead to more pain than just 1-2 developmental seasons. I don’t understand how you guys keep on deluding yourself that it will only be 1-2 years.

 

[Petey O]

Just reposting this classic:

 

[Tob]

The whole reason why the buyout period is mid June well ahead of UFA period is to give players a heads-up. That's baked into the CBA by the PA.

The buyout is a unilateral decision of a contract termination as specified under the CBA. It's the same reason why agents don't call GMs and say politely, "hey big guy, giving you a heads-up we may be planning on signing a hostile offer sheet". If they do it it's for strategy and leverage, not manners.

Being surprised by a buyout isn't a problem. They didn't promise OEL that he wouldn't be bought out, that he should invest in a block of townhomes in Surrey. The Canucks also didn't leave OEL or his agent hanging or scrambling either, they did it on day 1 and gave OEL's camp and family as much time as possible.

This isn't someone being fired from an office job and left with no income out of the blue. It's his agent's job to expect a buyout and have a plan in mind for that since the possibility was real and widely speculated. OEL will land a job in 2 weeks and he certainly isn't going to have the power turned off at his house because of financial difficulties.

The team had no obligation to give them a multi-day heads up in case something changes. It would have been surprising to hear about the buyout 2 days earlier anyway.