Management Thread | The Song Remains the Same Edition

[canucksfan]

I meant he wasn’t doing something that was completely out of expectation. Like he did something similar the year before and fans was looking at him to continue to improve since he had the tools, the toolbox and also the drive.

Like I said, based on what he did last season, most of us assumed that he would continue it because of his drive and work ethic.

What was the expectation of Demko? His whole season numbers, .915% or his numbers under Bruce .928%? His numbers under Bruce weren't a realistic expectation. He has never had a save % over .915.

EDIT: Just to clarify, when I said a minor decline could be expected, that was in relation to his numbers under Bruce.

 

[arttk]

What was the expectation of Demko? His whole season numbers, .915% or his numbers under Bruce .928%? His numbers under Bruce weren't a realistic expectation. He has never had a save % over .915.

EDIT: Just to clarify, when I said a minor decline could be expected, that was in relation to his numbers under Bruce.

I just want to make sure I am communicating correctly. Like based on what he had shown in bits, like i don’t think what happened last year was truly unexpected. He never really bad the opportunity to start considering he only took the job away from Holtby the year before. Like yes we haven’t seen that level for a whole season but there is a reason why bubble Demko is a thing right? We’ve seen him some some incredible shit.

I think it was just as likely for him to get better or to to regress a bit. Like either could happen and it wouldn’t surprise people right? if a minor regression happened, it makes sense from the perspective of oh how could he sustain that. If he improved, that also would’be made sense because he was known to be a hard worker and having experience should have been helpful for him to figure out how to be better.

I think what was unexpected was him going from last year to this year because you really can’t explain it other than the knee.

 

[Coffee]

Yeah fair enough..

Lots of goaltending red flags there and some interesting.. well.. positives i guess

If anything it should show the main point that should be focused on

Interestingly since tocchet they have improved to 20th in hdsc allowed while receiving the sixth worst sv% in that category

Looking at the roster and realizing we’re a pretty young team.

Looking at contracts though.. some big negative weeds. I’m not sure what to make of this and hope to god JR works some magic.

Lots of things to be hopeful for like Kuzmenko signing, Petterssons evolution and of course, the fact we are in running for the 2023 Draft lottery


And if everything aligns with Demko returning to his regular form next year, then the Oilers got another thing coming.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I just want to make sure I am communicating correctly. Like based on what he had shown in bits, like i don’t think what happened last year was truly unexpected. He never really bad the opportunity to start considering he only took the job away from Holtby the year before. Like yes we haven’t seen that level for a whole season but there is a reason why bubble Demko is a thing right? We’ve seen him some some incredible shit.

I think it was just as likely for him to get better or to to regress a bit. Like either could happen and it wouldn’t surprise people right? if a minor regression happened, it makes sense from the perspective of oh how could he sustain that. If he improved, that also would’be made sense because he was known to be a hard worker and having experience should have been helpful for him to figure out how to be better.

I think what was unexpected was him going from last year to this year because you really can’t explain it other than the knee.

That is very very optimistic, nor not accounting for the fact that he produced vezina caliber results behind an absolute train wreck of a defensive team.

Would be the same as expecting JT Miller to score 99 points again or Horvat to keep his current scoring pace up for next season.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

What was the expectation of Demko? His whole season numbers, .915% or his numbers under Bruce .928%? His numbers under Bruce weren't a realistic expectation. He has never had a save % over .915.

EDIT: Just to clarify, when I said a minor decline could be expected, that was in relation to his numbers under Bruce.

I don't really have much of a dog in the race, but I'll freestyle off this comment...

Demko undoubtedly whilst he was active is or was having a shit year. However, he's really the least of my personal concern. He's been below average, but it has really highlighted what's wrong about the team, and the rub is that Rutherford is right. The team has had zero structure in their play. I like jazz enough as the next guy, and I like jazz in the NHL, but too much doesn't work. It's like pond hockey out there most nights, is what I mean. Where's the orchestra?

I really don't like man-to-man coverage, which is what we ended up playing most nights under Bruce. My theory is that error has everything to do with our group as it did Bruce. Is that correct? No idea, it's why it's a theory. You play man-to-man in beer league. Why? It's simple. Everyone knows their assignment. Limited communication. But it's easily broken down when you move bodies around, use passive screening and lots of E-W passing. I don't know. Oh Rev, you're rambling. I know. If you throw enough shit at the wall, you're bound to break through.

The long and the short of it, is that every missed assignment, every half-assed backcheck, every split second of hesitation, are all ending up in the back of our net. This team can't defend. Under Green, near the end, we played a more conservative game but we still looked bad in our end. Under Bruce, we freewheeled and looked bad. At what point do we realize that building from the net out has merit? Why do I look at our forwards and know there is something there, look at our goaltending and know there's something there, and why do we keep sucking?

Our defense is straight trash. Like I see Hughes, Schenn, and Bear who bring more to the table then they leave behind, and then I see 2 massive anchors and a bunch of guys who are "eh" at best. We f***ed our defense right up...almost every single year under Benning. And we are paying for it. Our forward group can't play defense really but it's passable enough with an average corps. But we don't have that. And I'd jettison OEL in a f***ing space probe for my left nut in an instant.

 

[arttk]

That is very very optimistic, nor not accounting for the fact that he produced vezina caliber results behind an absolute train wreck of a defensive team.

Would be the same as expecting JT Miller to score 99 points again or Horvat to keep his current scoring pace up for next season.

I don’t think it’s over optimistic to expect a goalie that just broke out to continue to be at the same level or improve considering his age and some of the crazy shit he has accomplished.

Well I have never assumed Miller would repeat and also was never in the Bo hype train. I was confident at Petey bouncing back while people were calling to trade him.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I don’t think it’s over optimistic to expect a goalie that just broke out to continue to be at the same level or improve considering his age and some of the crazy shit he has accomplished.

Just take a look at how volatile the position is in the league.

You wont ever give an inch on this so lets just leave it.

Well I have never assumed Miller would repeat and also was never in the Bo hype train. I was confident at Petey bouncing back while people were calling to trade him.

Never said you did.

Dont know what EP has to do with this.

 

[arttk]

Just take a look at how volatile the position is in the league.

You wont ever give an inch on this so lets just leave it.

Never said you did.

Dont know what EP has to do with this.

Even if you expect him to dip, do you expect him to be the worse starting goalie in the league?

I mean you bought up Miller and Bo for no reason as well lol

 

[Jay26]

It has probably been mentioned already somewhere but Lockwood was sent down.

This isn't a conditioning stint right? He's being sent down to stay?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Even if you expect him to dip, do you expect him to be the worse starting goalie in the league?

Ive said it before. No.

I dont think he was the worst starting goalie in the league. The environment is horrific and where goalie will succeed.

But even with that, this is like the 1th percentile outcome, in the bad end of the spectrum.

I mean you bought up Miller and Bo for no reason as well lol

They were other examples where you should expect regression to the mean.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

We were expected to be a good offensive team with good goaltending and bad defense. Instead we've been a good offensive team with bad defense and all-time terrible goaltending.

Yes, the goaltending results are shocking. They're literally the worst we've seen in this century, and by a country mile at that.

If our very good goalie had performed in his normal fashion - or even just delivered statistically league average goaltending - we'd be sitting right in the playoff bubble picture. As expected, in what was expected to be a transition year.



No team is doing that. It's totally unrealistic for where the team was at the time. It doesn't happen. It never happens.

I hate Aquilini more than anyone but I understand reality and sports outside of this market and it's a ridiculous expectation to suggest that they should have been blowing up the roster that we had in place and instead tanking for Bedard while running $20 million below the cap which is what that poster was suggesting.

The Flyers traded Richards and Carter 1 season after their Cup final appearance. Both were young, in their prime, key players. Richards was their captain, Selke nominee and had 2 over PPG seasons not long before the trade. Carter a 40G man that also had a PPG season. I think they were around 26 years old at the time?

The Flyers identified a younger key player in Giroux (like we had in EP), and traded 2 in-their-prime productive players (like we had with JTM and Horvat), did a mini-retool and was quite successful (got key pieces like Voracek, Schenn and Simmons along with a bunch of picks). They had more success leading up to the trade (1 season removed from a Cup final appearance) than us, but they decided moving forward it was better to transition to the next core.

The Avs also did something similar in 2017. A young up-and-coming team who just made the playoff a year prior, with key players in Duchene and ROR in their prime. They identified MacKinnon as their young core player moving forward, and traded the aforementioned 2 players for pieces to supplement him, and a few painful seasons later are cup winners.

What we hoped to happen last TDL (liquidating JTM and Horvat) is not unprecedented. Usual? Maybe. But it happened before and led to success to both franchises later on. Obviously the owner will need to be convinced but isn't that why we brought JR on board? Otherwise, why even bother hiring somebody with experience, might as well bring in another puppet then? Again, its not easy I'm sure, but it isn't some "15 year old video game s***" that you claimed it to be. Definitely not "no team is doing that" nor unrealistic.

 

[MS]

The Flyers traded Richards and Carter 1 season after their Cup final appearance. Both were young, in their prime, key players. Richards was their captain, Selke nominee and had 2 over PPG seasons not long before the trade. Carter a 40G man that also had a PPG season. I think they were around 26 years old at the time?

The Flyers identified a younger key player in Giroux (like we had in EP), and traded 2 in-their-prime productive players (like we had with JTM and Horvat), did a mini-retool and was quite successful (got key pieces like Voracek, Schenn and Simmons along with a bunch of picks). They had more success leading up to the trade (1 season removed from a Cup final appearance) than us, but they decided moving forward it was better to transition to the next core.

The Avs also did something similar in 2017. A young up-and-coming team who just made the playoff a year prior, with key players in Duchene and ROR in their prime. They identified MacKinnon as their young core player moving forward, and traded the aforementioned 2 players for pieces to supplement him, and a few painful seasons later are cup winners.

What we hoped to happen last TDL (liquidating JTM and Horvat) is not unprecedented. Usual? Maybe. But it happened before and led to success to both franchises later on. Obviously the owner will need to be convinced but isn't that why we brought JR on board? Otherwise, why even bother hiring somebody with experience, might as well bring in another puppet then? Again, its not easy I'm sure, but it isn't some "15 year old video game s***" that you claimed it to be. Definitely not "no team is doing that" nor unrealistic.

The Flyers traded Carter and Richards because they had massive cocaine habits and then refused to buy in when the rest of the core led by Chris Pronger tried to get them to clean up and focus on hockey. Look up ‘Dry Island’.

Not really the same thing.

Duchene was also traded during a season when Colorado broke out and made the playoffs because he was considered an off-ice cancer.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

 

[Peter Griffin]

Someone’s bitter.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Are the Canucks actually exploring intelligent cap-related ways to hasten a rebuild?

 

[bandwagonesque]

Jesus, she's deluded.

 

[Hodgy]

Jesus, she's deluded.

Even if she's "correct" on some level she really screwed up a great opportunity to work on the hockey operations side of the business. I think we have all probably worked with people who just couldn't shut up and it cost them in terms of career advancement.

 

[me2]

Even if she's "correct" on some level she really screwed up a great opportunity to work on the hockey operations side of the business. I think we have all probably worked with people who just couldn't shut up and it cost them in terms of career advancement.

Taking the Canucks to court to get a fair payout is reasonable. Most employers are smart enough to see that is just business.

However the constant sniping and talking behind the scenes. Everyy team is seeing someone they can't trust to shut up if they fire them. Those people are unhirable.

 

[Hodgy]

Taking the Canucks to court to get a fair payout is reasonable. Most employers are smart enough to see that is just business.

However the constant sniping and talking behind the scenes. Everyy team is seeing someone they can't trust to shut up if they fire them. Those people are unhirable.

Ya, but I am referring to even the pre-firing conduct as it seems she was having issues with management then. And again, she may have even had legitimate issues, but sometimes you just need to shut up and continue on....or quit. But complaining, even if the complaints are legitimate, doesn't often help your situation.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Even if she's "correct" on some level she really screwed up a great opportunity to work on the hockey operations side of the business. I think we have all probably worked with people who just couldn't shut up and it cost them in terms of career advancement.

According to her own account the team was pissed off because she communicated with a journalist in a way that suggested she was soliciting a favour, not because she was friends with that journalist. Nothing in the clip she posted could be construed to contradict the position the team took toward her behaviour.

 

[nowhereman]

She really just doesn't get it, does she?

There's a pretty obvious difference between corporate comms-approved marketing collateral and you talking off-the-record to the media.

 

[iceburg]

As bad as the team has been this year, I think it can be boiled down to only a couple of things and, as such, the solution is relatively easy:

1. Goaltending - not the only reason the team has poor results but a big part of it.
2. Two defensemen, OEL and Myers, expected to play significant roles for the team, have hugely underperformed to add to already declining abilities.
3. Incompetence on the PK to add to poor team defense in general.

These three are actually quite easy to fix. 2 and 3 are very fixable with a couple of personnel changes and systems work. 1 is fixable with a healthy Demko and a competent back-up.

I would still use this opportunity to do something closer to a rebuild than a retool (because it's better for the long term) but 3 or 4 changes in personnel and good coaching could make this team quite competitive in the short term.

 

[VanJack]

Still wouldn't shock me if by Canucks training camp in September, there's an almost complete roster makeover.

Still a possibility that Boeser, Garland, Demko and even Miller are dealt by the TDL or in the off-season. Looks to me like the Canucks have finally had the lesson pounded into them.

All four players, if they were Canucks next season, would consume a whopping total of $24m under the salary cap. You hardly need to blow that kind of money to be a lottery team year after year.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Jesus, she's deluded.

 

[VanJack]

Looking at the NHL stats today, heading into tonight's contest with the Blues, the Canucks have allowed 231`goals. That's the second worst record in the league, surpassed only by Anaheim at an unbelievable 246. Canucks and Ducks are basically lapping the field.

And of course as well all know, the Canucks PK is on pace to be historically bad and is 32nd and dead last in the league by a wide margin. Bad defensive teams end up where they end up.

So unless both those stats improve dramatically next year, the lottery beckons for the Canucks again.