Management Thread | The Song Remains the Same Edition

[MS]

You know who would have been a worse hire than Tocchet?

I have zero issues with this.

Looks like my theory that JR leaked the coaching change stuff himself to push ownership was right. Christ this is getting worse by the minute

Yup.

Rutherford has been around a long time without weird shit like this happening. Guy is a professional.

The weird shit that’s happening appears to be them trying to assert autonomy and separate hockey ops from ownership. Which I think is what everybody wants.

This whole season is so incredibly similar to the 1997-98 Canuck season it’s beyond belief. That year, Burke was hired. Keenan/Messier insanity was over! Except it wasn’t because Burke was stuck with Keenan by ownership. And the whole season was an absolute circus, and the team actually got worse than the year before. All kinds of bizarre shit happened as Burke tried to wrestle autonomy from a lot of stupid people both above and below him. And at the end of the first year he looked like a disaster and was very unpopular. Then things improved. Hopefully the same thing happens here.

 

[me2]

What do you mean 'none of them got through to him'..?..Miller played well under Green, and Cooper

“I think he’s what we’ve been lacking, because we’ve had some skill on this team and some speed and we’ve gone far with it. But you look back to … some of these gruelling rounds and these gruelling series and you need those guys that can play heavy and he’s one of those guys that can do it,” Cooper said of Miller.

“Below the dots, in the corners, puck protecting, net-front, all those things that you need, he can do that,” Cooper continued. “He wins those puck battles. He’s one of the few guys that, you go in there against [Zdeno] Chara and he can stand up to him and you’re going to need that in these series. Who’s going to be able to go in on pucks with [Brooks] Orpik? Some of these bigger defenceman? Miller can do it. And the other thing is, he’s got enough skill and hockey sense to play with guys that have elite hockey sense and he’s just been a great fit for those guys.”..Jon Cooper on Miller , May ,2018..Sportsnet.

And Miller was traded after Cooper got a good look at him for a year

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

And Miller was traded after Cooper got a good look at him for a year

They couldn't afford to keep him..simple as that.

 

[me2]

They couldn't afford to keep him..simple as that.

They had to make the decision on who was the player they wanted to keep least.

 

[credulous]

They had to make the decision on who was the player they wanted to keep least.

when you have stamkos, kucherov, point, killorn, palat, johnson, gourde and cirelli there's just no room for a player like jt miller

 

[arttk]

They had to make the decision on who was the player they wanted to keep least.

Well Jimbo deciding to give a 1st was probably the main reason. Tampa were paying teams to dump players and here comes Jim with a 1st.

 

[credulous]

Well Jimbo deciding to give a 1st was probably the main reason. Tampa were paying teams to dump players and here comes Jim with a 1st.

they could have just not extended gourde if they wanted to keep miller

 

[arttk]

they could have just not extended gourde if they wanted to keep miller

I don’t remember what their cap situation was like that year. I presume they had to get rid of somebody. It’s like an annual thing with them, needing to lose players for free or give up something to trade away a player.

Jimbo showing up with a 1st probably made the decision easy for them, especially considering it was lottery protected for only 1 year.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

They had to make the decision on who was the player they wanted to keep least.

They had to clear cap to re-sign Brayden Point...The narrative that he wore out his welcome in Tampa is a garbage one.

He went on to lead the Canucks in points in 2 out of the last 3 seasons..One of our best players.

 

[me2]

They had to clear cap to re-sign Brayden Point...The narrative that he wore out his welcome in Tampa is a garbage one.

He wasn't the only option.

He went on to lead the Canucks in points in 2 out of the last 3 seasons..One of our best players.

He was good under Green, had a nice few months under Bordeau.

 

[Raistlin]

I have zero issues with this.



Yup.

Rutherford has been around a long time without weird shit like this happening. Guy is a professional.

The weird shit that’s happening appears to be them trying to assert autonomy and separate hockey ops from ownership. Which I think is what everybody wants.

This whole season is so incredibly similar to the 1997-98 Canuck season it’s beyond belief. That year, Burke was hired. Keenan/Messier insanity was over! Except it wasn’t because Burke was stuck with Keenan by ownership. And the whole season was an absolute circus, and the team actually got worse than the year before. All kinds of bizarre shit happened as Burke tried to wrestle autonomy from a lot of stupid people both above and below him. And at the end of the first year he looked like a disaster and was very unpopular. Then things improved. Hopefully the same thing happens here.

I hope this is the case, so you assume it's FA berating Friedman and blaming him? I suppose everyone else in management is happy with the leak then, and it's good that JR is doing his dirty best to get true autonomy.. Is this preferable to my assumption that there are leaks everywhere in the operation? How utterly hopeless it is that we are saddled with this joke of an owner..shades of Harold Ballard.

 

[Diogenes92]

Canucks still think they're a playoff caliber team and will mortgage the future for short term gain once again for next season.

They're in 6th last and they don't want anything to do with draft pick returns in trades.

At some point it just becomes too cruel for us fans. It has to be some kind of universal karma for the fact that Aquilini owns the team.

Also, is anybody else starting to worry about Allvin not being the sharpest tool in the shed? The way he talks and seems to go off topic and not answer anything is either a strategy or unintentional. Not sure which at the moment.

 

[Hyzer]

miller has played for (and depending who you ask, been shipped out by at least one and maybe two of) john tortorella, alain vigneault and jon cooper. also travis green. none of them got through to him but rick tocchet is gonna be the guy who does? cmon

Miller has been a big cry baby for almost his entire career. He was shipped out of quality franchises in NY and Tampa and now we sign him to a retirement contract...

this team is so damn tiring lmfao

 

[F A N]

Miller's attitude is dependent on team success. When the team is playing well (Boudreau's surge last year), he is the team's biggest cheerleader. When it's struggling, he unhelpfully piles on and adds to the overall despondency.

So if you want to get through to Miller, just have the team play better and his mood will improve. Oh, and make sure he never gets near the C.

I hope that is the case. I really haven't been hard on Miller at all. I do see him as a difference maker on the offensive end. At the end of the day, it sucks to pay $8M AAV to a player who isn't being the type of leader you want and doesn't really carry the team on his back, but at the same time you want to be guys who can help you win when you're actually contending.

 

[bandwagonesque]

You know who would have been a worse hire than Tocchet?

Did you see the Frank Corrado interview? Players don't have to like their coaches, but when a coach is publicly ridiculed by a player all his peers and bosses seem to like and who usually has nothing bad to say about anyone, then something's up. Whatever Babcock was 15 years ago, coaches are people who can lose social capital through their behaviour and personal evolution.

 

[Jyrki21]

Rutherford has been around a long time without weird shit like this happening. Guy is a professional.

The weird shit that’s happening appears to be them trying to assert autonomy and separate hockey ops from ownership. Which I think is what everybody wants.

This whole season is so incredibly similar to the 1997-98 Canuck season it’s beyond belief. That year, Burke was hired. Keenan/Messier insanity was over! Except it wasn’t because Burke was stuck with Keenan by ownership. And the whole season was an absolute circus, and the team actually got worse than the year before. All kinds of bizarre shit happened as Burke tried to wrestle autonomy from a lot of stupid people both above and below him. And at the end of the first year he looked like a disaster and was very unpopular. Then things improved. Hopefully the same thing happens here.

I am really glad you brought this up, because for all I agree with the majority sentiment that Boudreau has been done dirty, I do think the shock and awe about how unique and unprecedented this situation is has been a little exaggerated. It is weird, yes, but (i) is clearly the product of a struggle with ownership, and (ii) it has basically happened before right in Vancouver... Burke was hired in June 1998, and Keenan wasn't fired until January 1999, with absolutely everyone knowing it was coming for months.

I think the only real difference is that Bruce is a likable, nice guy and Keenan was public enemy no. 1.

(I don't recall Burke being unpopular for it, though... just ridiculed over his "Dave Gagner was an essential part of this trade" comments).

 

[Brookbank]

I have zero issues with this.



Yup.

Rutherford has been around a long time without weird shit like this happening. Guy is a professional.

He spent most of his time in Carolina, the eastern conference. He is completely out of his depth in a Canadian city

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I'm sure everyone has thought about Cock atleast once.

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

Didn't the Canucks fire some senior people who would have been responsible for those things? I'm thinking this was in the depths of the "pandemic season". I could be wrong and trying to google anything about it just returns hits about Boudreau. Maybe someone with a better memory or better Googling skills can answer the question.

Can 100% confirm that everyone senior on the PR/marketing side is new (either to the team or to a senior role within the Canucks) in the last year. A big piece of why things seem so disjointed. But I honestly think that part of the business is run by smart people and they'll figure it out

 

[MS]

I am really glad you brought this up, because for all I agree with the majority sentiment that Boudreau has been done dirty, I do think the shock and awe about how unique and unprecedented this situation is has been a little exaggerated. It is weird, yes, but (i) is clearly the product of a struggle with ownership, and (ii) it has basically happened before right in Vancouver... Burke was hired in June 1998, and Keenan wasn't fired until January 1999, with absolutely everyone knowing it was coming for months.

I think the only real difference is that Bruce is a likable, nice guy and Keenan was public enemy no. 1.

(I don't recall Burke being unpopular for it, though... just ridiculed over his "Dave Gagner was an essential part of this trade" comments).

Burke's first year was kind of a disaster and he was not popular at the end of that season.

- there was obviously the Keenan stuff, which was a mess. Plus the fact that he had publicly stated that Keenan would get to work with the proceeds of the Bure deal and fired him 2 days later, which was one of many things said that year that made his word seem very suspect.

- publicly beefed with media and fans all year (One phone call can move this team!) and generally acted like a total asshole.

- butchered the Bure deal, was widely ridiculed for the Gagner comments, and widely ridiculed again when 'goalie of the future' Kevin Weekes couldn't stop a beachball.

- the goalie issues that plagued him for his entire tenure started when he released the popular Arturs Irbe who had been by far the team's best goalie the previous year and watched Irbe be a top-5 goalie in the league while we suffered through a Snow-Hirsch tandem.

- protected Huscroft/McAllister/Strudwick over the wildly popular Scott Walker and then watched Walker have a breakout season in Nashville that would have put him 4th in Canuck scoring that year.

- the team absolutely cratered after the coaching change (Keenan actually had them in the playoff picture when he was fired) and - crazy as it sounds now - there was a significant percentage of the fanbase that felt that he had fired the better coach and made a mess out of that situation because his ego couldn't work with Keenan.

And there was more than that that I can't remember because it's been 25 years. But Burke was beleaguered that year, and things only stabilized the following year when he had a flat track into the season with total control and his coach and his staff in place.

 

[Vector]

 

[Canucker]

Surprising actually...I would have thought JR might have had more balls to tell this clown to back the f*** off.

 

[arttk]

They had to clear cap to re-sign Brayden Point...The narrative that he wore out his welcome in Tampa is a garbage one.

He went on to lead the Canucks in points in 2 out of the last 3 seasons..One of our best players.

That’s such BS. All you need to do is take a look at the cap history to see it’s all a lie. Tampa made 2 trades that off season for cap reasons,Callahan and JT Miller. Those moves freed up 8.6ish M for them and the only signing they made after was Shattenkirk and Paulette which cost 3.X M which was the relief they got from Callahan. The team played with a 1.5M cushion so if they didn’t trade away Miller, they would’ve been over the cap or they would’ve needed to send somebody to LTIR for the whole season.

 

[TruGr1t]

 

[bandwagonesque]

That’s such BS. All you need to do is take a look at the cap history to see it’s all a lie. Tampa made 2 trades that off season for cap reasons,Callahan and JT Miller. Those moves freed up 8.6ish M for them and the only signing they made after was Shattenkirk and Paulette which cost 3.X M which was the relief they got from Callahan. The team played with a 1.5M cushion so if they didn’t trade away Miller, they would’ve been over the cap or they would’ve needed to send somebody to LTIR for the whole season.

What PoM seems to be saying, and he's correct, is that the simple fact that a trade is necessary to or fulfills the function of clearing cap doesn't mean the player won't return value. Miller was never a cap dump, he was always going to return value.