Management Thread Blurst of Times

[Bleach Clean]

Friedman already reported nobody made an offer for him and the reason for it is simple,
Boeser underperformed hard and is also demanding a 8x7. Contenders want to get a premier position and also keep the guy if they are spending a 1st and guess what, if you are a contender, you don’t want to spend that money and term on Boeser considering he has only performed to his contract once out of the last 3 years.

BB thing is like the easiest shit to understand. BB did well in his first season so wanting to fire him would be risky because whoever comes had to be better and there is no certainty that would happen. if Tocchet came in and sucked in the 1st season, that would lead to ownership questioning the BB firing and decrease the trust they have in management. By letting BB fail, it was a no brainer to fire him at that point and did not cost him anything in terms of ownership trust.

Have you ever managed up before?

Your first statement is incorrect. Per Friedman, the Canucks wanted at least a 1st round pick for Boeser, and nobody met THAT price. There were other offers.

Management offered Boeser $8m/5yrs. Given that, I have to believe a 1-2 year term disagreement doesn't suddenly repaint him as a valueless underperformer.

On Boudreau: So management was confident enough to know that Boudreau would fail, eventually, but not confident enough that Tocchet could better him? Therefore, they purposely kept him, lost games, derided him throughout, all in an attempt to gain trust with ownership. This was preferred to just hiring Tocchet and winning more games in the interim. Do I have it right?

Anyway, instead of arguing over points that could or could not be evidence of current ownership interference, let's agree that the evidence to suggest it isn't there right now. There are only hints. As such, this is Rutherford's show.

 

[F A N]

I am the guy who gave dozens of elite athletes tendonitis

You should use some protection

 

[arttk]

Your first statement is incorrect. Per Friedman, the Canucks wanted at least a 1st round pick for Boeser, and nobody met THAT price. There were other offers.

Management offered Boeser $8m/5yrs. Given that, I have to believe a 1-2 year term disagreement doesn't suddenly repaint him as a valueless underperformer.

On Boudreau: So management was confident enough to know that Boudreau would fail, eventually, but not confident enough that Tocchet could better him? Therefore, they purposely kept him, lost games, derided him throughout, all in an attempt to gain trust with ownership. This was preferred to just hiring Tocchet and winning more games in the interim. Do I have it right?

Anyway, instead of arguing over points that could or could not be evidence of current ownership interference, let's agree that the evidence to suggest it isn't there right now. There are only hints. As such, this is Rutherford's show.

He was underperforming this whole season. He scored 4 goals in Jan and feb, total and on top of that he’s asking 8Mx7. The contract ask makes him most likely a rental for all contenders and him only scoring 4 goals in 2 months makes him not a certain option as well.

And we should not take a price that’s significantly less just to sell, don’t f*** with your own reputation and let other GMs that they can lowball us and we’ll take it. We are not at the, we are selling and everything must go state.

There is a difference between not having a coach hired so you can hire you own vs firing a coach that is already hired and hiring your own. If you do the latter then the new coach needs to deliver better results than the coach you fired. BB basically coached the team at a 100pt pace the season prior so if JR were to fire him and hire Tocchet, then Tocchet would need to get the team to play at a 100pt pace to justify it.
I don’t think JR was waiting for BB to fail so he could fire him. I think they were going to let him coach the remainder of it and not extend. BB f***ing it up hard just gave him the right excuse to fire him instead.

Yes I think this is JR and Allvin’s show.

 

[Bleach Clean]

He was underperforming this whole season. He scored 4 goals in Jan and feb, total and on top of that he’s asking 8Mx7. The contract ask makes him most likely a rental for all contenders and him only scoring 4 goals in 2 months makes him not a certain option as well.

And we should not take a price that’s significantly less just to sell, don’t f*** with your own reputation and let other GMs that they can lowball us and we’ll take it. We are not at the, we are selling and everything must go state.

There is a difference between not having a coach hired so you can hire you own vs firing a coach that is already hired and hiring your own. If you do the latter then the new coach needs to deliver better results than the coach you fired. BB basically coached the team at a 100pt pace the season prior so if JR were to fire him and hire Tocchet, then Tocchet would need to get the team to play at a 100pt pace to justify it.
I don’t think JR was waiting for BB to fail so he could fire him. I think they were going to let him coach the remainder of it and not extend. BB f***ing it up hard just gave him the right excuse to fire him instead.

Yes I think this is JR and Allvin’s show.

Glad we agree that JR and Allvin are in control.

Boeser, with all of his warts, was offered $8m/5yrs here. He has some value, whether as a pure rental or as a re-signing candidate.

New Jersey sold Toffoli for a muted return last year. It happens. I don't think Fitzgerald's reputation suffered one bit. Managers must execute at the TDL. If you don't want to trade him, re-sign him.

I don't understand the logic of deriding your coach while he's doing relatively well? Doing well serves the owner. JR clearly didn't like Boudreau, but he didn't fire him. He only did when the money owed to Boudreau was almost paid out and Boudreau had a bad run. Don't ignore the money...

 

[F A N]

Not sure if this is being discussed elsewhere, but I can’t believe Rutherford said what he said about Quinn and his brothers. Like WTF

 

[kanucks25]

Pretty clearly we had different interpretations of punchmunkin's post about things being the responsibility of management.

Well this isn't really surprising considering how much they tend to be vague and indirect in their posts.

There are a couple of things that I'd like to mention, although I'm not sure we're really disagreeing about them.

1. A set of gambles by management that didn't go their way is management responsibility whether they made those gambles in 2022 or 2024. (More on this later.)

2. I agree with you that virtually no management group would have wanted to break up the core of the gang last summer, but my reasoning is different.

Most of us on this board weren't in a position last summer to know there was an ongoing serious rift between Miller and Petey, but then we aren't privy to all that goes on with the team nor is it our job to know and make decisions for the team based on that knowledge.

There were a few posts suggesting last summer that EP40 be traded based on his disappearance the last half of the 2023-24 season, which wasn't the first time we'd seen his play drop off. Probably most of us will remember the resulting debates about whether or not and to what extent his poor play was because of physical injury (the tendonitis he reported at the 2024 post-season media availability).

Still, it seems to me that even if the possibility of things falling apart was foreseen by Allvin, standing pat at center might have seemed the far better gamble.

There are moves that this group has made that seem to me far more open to criticism than hanging on to their centers in 2024. Those include, just keeping to the center position:

-not extending Horvat in the summer of 2022, before his goal scoring spree in 22-23 raised his value
-extending Miller instead of trading him when the return would have been highest
-extending EP40 at 8 x 11.6

Any of those might be defensible. Some will think management was right about one of them, some two of them, maybe even some will agree with all of them or none of them, but with all of them being open to reasonable debate, pretty clearly the result, which includes the success of 2023-24, the failure of 2024-2025 and the outlook for the future, is the responsibility of the management that made those decisions.

I think we may be talking about two different things, although it's all related.

I have no problem with people criticizing the Horvat trade or Miller extension or Petey extension at the time. If you think management made poor decisions on those fronts, that's fine and there are valid arguments for all of that.

My specific gripe is with people claiming that it was obvious all along that the team was going to implode during/after last (23/24) season. I think if you took a poll of people both inside and outside the market asking if you think the Canucks should blow it up prior to this season or if they should keep going for it because it looks like they might just be a forward or two away, majority would go with the latter option.

Perhaps what management is guilty of is not having enough of a grasp on Petey's injury/drop-off and underestimating both the likelihood of him not regaining his form this season and what the ripple effects of that could be.

 

[Jack Burton]

Pickles all round.

 

[JT Milker]

Not sure if this is being discussed elsewhere, but I can’t believe Rutherford said what he said about Quinn and his brothers. Like WTF

What did he say? This is the first we’re all hearing about this and isn’t being discussed in 5 other threads!

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Not sure if this is being discussed elsewhere, but I can’t believe Rutherford said what he said about Quinn and his brothers. Like WTF

Yeah. That was wild.

 

[Goatlender]

If the Canucks miss the playoffs again next season, how likely is it that management and/or coaching are fired?

 

[Hodgy]

If the Canucks miss the playoffs again next season, how likely is it that management and/or coaching are fired?

You would have to imagine there would be a good possibility of that happening. But I do have PTSD over how long it took ownership to fire Jim Benning, so its hard to really say. But then again, they abruptly fired Gillis....

 

[iFan]

If the Canucks miss the playoffs again next season, how likely is it that management and/or coaching are fired?

Coaching could be changed this offseason if Tocchet doesn’t return. If a new coaching staff comes in they’ll have a longer run way than one season. I think management would still be safe, but I could see JR retiring if we miss the playoffs as it would mean Hughes is likely gone and it’s back to retooling.

 

[Attack Vector]

Tomm seems like a perfect day for a Canucks announcement.

 

[rypper]

Tomm seems like a perfect day for a Canucks announcement.

As is tradition. 4pm on a Friday.

 

[Vector]

Tomm seems like a perfect day for a Canucks announcement.

As is tradition. 4pm on a Friday.

It was expected that a Tocchet announcement, one way or another, would come this week.

 

[me2]

If the Canucks miss the playoffs again next season, how likely is it that management and/or coaching are fired?

Please select from the following options

Yes / Yes

 

[me2]

Looking forward to seeing what they do with Tocchet or his replacement

 

[Jack Burton]

It was expected that a Tocchet announcement, one way or another, would come this week.

Little bird told me that it’s just managements preference so they can get going on the offseason and want an answer asap.

We will not hear about what Tocchet does till after July 1st as he’s waiting to see what direction this franchise is heading in

 

[Vector]

Little bird told me that it’s just managements preference so they can get going on the offseason and want an answer asap.

We will not hear about what Tocchet does till after July 1st as he’s waiting to see what direction this franchise is heading in

They aren't waiting around until July 1st. If Tocchet wants to coach next season, he's not going to be able to wait around either.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The more I think about it, the more insane I find how this current management team has handled their PR.

Self inflicted wound after self inflicted wound.

You dont come out and;

Confirm to everyone that, yes, we have a situation in the locker room and are forced to trade one of JT Miller or Elias Pettersson and dont expect a massive return.

Confirm to everyone that, yes, Quinn Hughes actually does want to play with his brothers and this could mean we will be unable to resign him.

OR... Dont have the stories straight between your players and the management where Miller and Pettersson say its all about the evil Vancouver media inventing stuff and then Rutherford confirms that no actually they really f***in hate each other.

OR... Dont have the stories straight between a player and a coach where in the same presser one comes out and says he was struggling with a knee injury and then the coach comes out and says this is the first time we hear about this.


This isnt just some small matters. They dramatically affect the team, team chemistry, trade value of players etc.

How can they be so shit at this so consistently?

Add to that... I cant remember EVER hearing the management and coach of a team talk with such obvious yearning about a player who requested a trade, and got traded!

Bizarre...

 

[Cancuks]

Tocchet will be taking the Flyers job first chance he gets. Also, hard to believe nobody was offering a first for Boeser when the Islanders turned down a second for a much older, worse Kyle Palmeiri. I think they didn't want to deal him because he's one of Hughes' best friends on the team. Once again we'll trade away draft picks and prospects this summer while teams like St Louis have nearly rebuilt themselves after winning a Cup a few years back. This team will never learn that there are no shortcuts.

 

[Breakers]

Pedestrians swear Aquilini's ferrari FF had its door mutiliated in Downtown Vancouver last week

that's on brand for how he runs the team

 

[rypper]

Tocchet will be taking the Flyers job first chance he gets

#insiderrrrrr