Management Thread | 5th Youngest Team in the League Edition

[Jyrki21]

You get four callups post trade deadline, half this stuff isn't even possible. Jackson should know better tbh.

That's fair, but there is still room for more experimentation and seeing what you can get from the non-regulars than going balls-to-the-wall with your stars, particularly Demko. I would have made a lot of effort to get Podkolzin and Kravtsov going in particular.

 

[racerjoe]

That's fair, but there is still room for more experimentation and seeing what you can get from the non-regulars than going balls-to-the-wall with your stars, particularly Demko. I would have made a lot of effort to get Podkolzin and Kravtsov going in particular.

Aren't they injured?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Who else would you have liked them to trade...

Our odds have currently changed 2.5%

That difference I think is worth how the team is playing, Hughes getting into another level, Petterson getting into another level, Miller finding his game again.

Its obviously about more than just the 1st overall.

I really dont want to get too deep in to this. Im 100% sure you know what I mean.

 

[tantalum]

That's fair, but there is still room for more experimentation and seeing what you can get from the non-regulars than going balls-to-the-wall with your stars, particularly Demko. I would have made a lot of effort to get Podkolzin and Kravtsov going in particular.

I'm not sure how much more they can do to get Podz or Kravtsov going. It can't be just about spoon feeding them icetime. They have to earn it. Podz is a really weird player to figure out. He gets going for a few games and then just completely sputters and looks so far away from the NHl level. Kravtsov saw some decent time when he first joined the team but has done nothing with it.

10-12 minutes is enough to show what you can do and earn more time and by and large that is what they got. Moving them to 15 minutes a night won't change anything. The fact is they have had their lunch handed to them by the likes of Joshua and Aman the back half of the season. Yes Joshua is an older player but one that is also playing for an increased role next year.

Podz and Kravtsov are 22 and 23 this summer. Add Hoglander to the list. It's time for them to step up and seize icetime rather than have it gifted to them because of past performance or draft pedigree.

 

[racerjoe]

Its obviously about more than just the 1st overall.

I really dont want to get too deep in to this. Im 100% sure you know what I mean.

I do, but do you get my point? Bits just easiest to illustrate with the 1OA. The difference quality of player you are getting isn’t straight up as 5 is better 9. Often in drafts these tiers people want to talk up don’t mean much. Yes you obviously would like the hire pick, but at what cost? That probably depends where you believe your team is.

 

[rypper]

I'm all for earning ice time but sometimes you get the idea that Podkolzin gets in his own head sometimes. The remaining games of the season just park him on Pettersson's wing, and let him go play. If he makes a mistake you live with it and he stays put. See if anything clicks.

 

[tantalum]

I'm all for earning ice time but sometimes you get the idea that Podkolzin gets in his own head sometimes. The remaining games of the season just park him on Pettersson's wing, and let him go play. If he makes a mistake you live with it and he stays put. See if anything clicks.

It's not like he was getting benched for mistakes though. Getting benched for being ineffective sure but not mistakes. and I shouldn't even say benched...reduced icetime is the better phrase. He got re-called and had good icetime for half dozen games and then it dropped because ultimately he didn't do enough with it. He is currently injured and not in the lineup. He's going to be around 10-12 minutes when he gets back because it will be solely 5-on-5 time.

There is no real need to put him alongside Pettersson and "let him go play". He has been allowed to play. He just hasn't played well. He has had a poor year and it has nothing to do with icetime.

I'm not writing him off and I don't think the team is either, he has about 12 months before that starts to happen. However, he is losing the competition for icetime.

 

[Hodgy]

I don't know if it's been posted here before, but Jackson McDonald had a really good thread about how the Canucks' actions don't really suggest they are treating this as a "training camp" after all. He also addressed this really well on the latest Roxy Fever podcast (basically, if there was ever one season to "pull the chute" and then quickly regroup for next year, this was it -- other teams do this all the time):







It's worth reading the rest of the thread too -- I know HF limits the number of embedded tweets.

That's fair, but there is still room for more experimentation and seeing what you can get from the non-regulars than going balls-to-the-wall with your stars, particularly Demko. I would have made a lot of effort to get Podkolzin and Kravtsov going in particular.

I'm not sure how much more they can do to get Podz or Kravtsov going. It can't be just about spoon feeding them icetime. They have to earn it. Podz is a really weird player to figure out. He gets going for a few games and then just completely sputters and looks so far away from the NHl level. Kravtsov saw some decent time when he first joined the team but has done nothing with it.

10-12 minutes is enough to show what you can do and earn more time and by and large that is what they got. Moving them to 15 minutes a night won't change anything. The fact is they have had their lunch handed to them by the likes of Joshua and Aman the back half of the season. Yes Joshua is an older player but one that is also playing for an increased role next year.

Podz and Kravtsov are 22 and 23 this summer. Add Hoglander to the list. It's time for them to step up and seize icetime rather than have it gifted to them because of past performance or draft pedigree.

Management and coaching are aligned in that they want the team to be as competitive as possible next year (i.e., be a playoff team). Jannik Hansen, when he was on the radio, made a good point a year or so ago when he talked about how difficult it is for a team to be shit one year (including how it finished the year) and then just turn it on the next year and be a competitive team. Basically, he said players form good or bad habits and that its extremely hard to finish the year poorly and start the next year well.

When you accept both of the above things as true, which I think is fair, it becomes pretty obvious that this management and coaching staff want the Canucks to finish as well as possible this year. Sure, if they lose some games because they are 'unlucky' then I am sure they will take that, but I strongly believe both management and coaching would much prefer a team that finishes with like the 13th overall pick to a team that finishes with the 3rd overall pick (pre-lottery). Because this organization is prioritizing being competitive next year over futures.

People need to keep this in mind. It isn't that the Canucks are unintentionally screwing up their draft positions - to the contrary - they are trying to be as good as they possibly can be in order to maximize the chances of them starting off next year strong and avoiding the kind of abysmal start to next season that we had this seasons. Its super frustrating as a fan but I think this is pretty clear where management and coaching are.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Do we all agree that the management team should be fired if they miss the playoffs again next year?

 

[Nucker101]

Do we all agree that the management team should be fired if they miss the playoffs again next year?

Moot discussion

Unless they miss by an embarrassing margin, I'd be shocked if that happens. Look at how long Benning lasted

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Moot discussion

Unless they miss by an embarrassing margin, I'd be shocked if that happens. Look at how long Benning lasted

Why would we confine our selves to discussing what is likely to happen?

To me, if they miss the playoffs again their ~3 year run has been a horrific example of not understanding what your task at hand even is.

 

[Nucker101]

Why would we confine our selves to discussing what is likely to happen?

I agree that they'd deserve to be fired since technically they'd have failed in consecutive years.

Overall I think this management team is pretty mediocre, not going to make us pull our hair out but not good enough to turn this mess around either.

God I wish we had just hired Gorton as Prez and Tulsky as GM

 

[racerjoe]

Why would we confine our selves to discussing what is likely to happen?

To me, if they miss the playoffs again their ~3 year run has been a horrific example of not understanding what your task at hand even is.

I mean it would only have been two years...

Depends how the fail. If they fail because of what they have done then absolutely. If they have say because everyone of importance gets hurt. Then no.

 

[Josepho]

Do we all agree that the management team should be fired if they miss the playoffs again next year?

Don't know if I'd make a blanket statement like that, but probably. I don't think Rutherford is gonna be around for too much longer regardless.

I'm willing to give them a chance with their own coach and the results on the revamped Abbotsford system are still pending.

 

[valkynax]

Moot discussion

Unless they miss by an embarrassing margin, I'd be shocked if that happens. Look at how long Benning lasted

I will never forget how one poster proclaimed that, soon after we booted JEB, that whoever that comes next to manage the team should be fired if they cannot become cup-competitive in 2 years, because of how much treasure JEB left us.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I mean it would only have been two years...

Depends how the fail. If they fail because of what they have done then absolutely. If they have say because everyone of importance gets hurt. Then no.

There is ALWAYS going to be excuses.

I see it as a 1 year window with Hronek and EP getting a massive raise. I would not expect them to make the playoffs in 2024-25. That would be an unreasonable expectation with the situation they will be in. Even if its their own doing.

 

[alternate]

Do we all agree that the management team should be fired if they miss the playoffs again next year?

They haven't even started a season with a HC they hired yet. They have 2 more seasons before firing them should even be a thought, short of something catastrophic happening next season.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

They haven't even started a season with a HC they hired yet. They have 2 more seasons before firing them should even be a thought, short of something catastrophic happening next season.

Like what would that catastrophic event be?

I think they've tried to compete for 2 years, pushing chips in to do so and have failed in a catastrophic way, if they miss the playoffs next year too.

I think they look to be 50/50 to make it.

Only way to up those odds significantly is to push more chips in, buyouts and trading our 1st rounder are the two obvious ways to do so.

 

[gringo]

Podkolzin. 124 GP. 18G 15A 33P
Boldy 118 GP 45G 54A 99P



When it rains it pours

 

[Jyrki21]

Do we all agree that the management team should be fired if they miss the playoffs again next year?

The main problem is that confirms the standard for any future executive as “you must throw the future out the window and make the playoffs at all costs.”

 

[credulous]

The main problem is that confirms the standard for any future executive as “you must throw the future out the window and make the playoffs at all costs.”

i don't think so. the management team claimed to be back to contending within 3 seasons. it's just holding them accountable for their own goals

if management were preaching patience and focused on the long term then you obviously don't fire them for missing the playoffs

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The main problem is that confirms the standard for any future executive as “you must throw the future out the window and make the playoffs at all costs.”

Not really.

If you dont make your goal to be competetive right now, and dont make shortsighted moves to compete right now, then you should be held to a different standard.

Our current management is trying to compete this current season and it has been as bad of a failure on all fronts as I could imagine.

If they wiff next year too they have completely failed at their own goals.

 

[tradervik]

Our current management is trying to compete this current season and it has been as bad of a failure on all fronts as I could imagine.

The team has obviously failed to compete but it's a crazy over-reaction to say the team has failed "on all fronts". Player development and undrafted free agent signings have had very promising results. The jury is still out on many of Allvin's moves. I get your pessimism but, as someone who usually takes an optimistic view, I just can't agree with it.

If they wiff next year too they have completely failed at their own goals.

Agreed. The team has to show that this late season surge is not a "garbage time" driven illusion.

 

[Quinntessential]

Good job by management to dodge the bullet of Horvat’s next contract. Ideally, the cap would’ve been managed well enough in the past to keep a player of his Caliber but it wasn’t so they did a good job dodging the bullet and getting value back too. Going for lottery tickets on College FA’s - also good.

 

[Canucks LB]

holding still on horvat hardball was a huge gamble and jim was spot on.
Dodged a lot there