Management Discussion | Just Have a Plan

[Bojack Horvatman]

By this type of absolutely basic logic Gretzky would have been the greatest coach in history. Hopefully management does not actually think this.

This is a rhetorical question. What is Tocchet going to do when part of the clubhouse is here for 7 more years, makes 8m a year, and has a NMC?

 

[Kryten]

Spisa
Eriksson
Beagle
Roussel
Baertschi
Sutter

All contracts that were way over price in $ and term (to name a few). OEL trade is, not even arguably, the worst in team history. Ownership might have said they want to win now, approved maximum cap spending, pressured management to get players in to help now, and thus prevented a rebuild. Only Benning is responsible for putting that max cap team together that couldn't make the playoffs...

Cant leave Ferland or Poolman out. Likely the worst salary to performance returns in Canucks and maybe NHL history

 

[Kryten]

May be an unpopular opinion here, but I think that Aqualini gets way too much flack as an owner of the Canucks.

Obviously , there are publicized issues regarding his personal life ,or that of his family business.

Relatively speaking, he's a Canuck fan, and mostly hasn't been a cheap owner (except in the covid year when he had to lay off a multitude of people).

I think that FA hired Rutherford so he could completely keep his nose out of the hockey ops, and leave it in the hands of a veteran team President (well intentioned) ..He felt compelled to defend Benning because he believed that eventually that JB's management would pull through.

I believe that FA's intentions for this team have been genuine (in the hiring of JR)....but the entire thing has blown up in owners/ managements faces this season.

I dont think anybody anticipated that the Canucks would be this inept this season.

Is that why Aquilini and Rutherford went to Vegas for Tocchet when coaching decisions are a GMs job?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

By this type of absolutely basic logic Gretzky would have been the greatest coach in history. Hopefully management does not actually think this.

Agreed,..Rob Fai seems to think that we're building an alumni team of ex players...We will be good because Foote,Tocchet, Gonchar..?...Crackpot logic..

Your proficiency as an ex NHL player has squat to do with your ability to coach.

 

[TruGr1t]

Agreed,..Rob Fai seems to think that we're building an alumni team of ex players...We will be good because Foote,Tocchet, Gonchar..?...Crackpot logic..

Your proficiency as an ex NHL player has squat to do with your ability to coach.

I actually think there is some sort of this thinking in “Adam Foote good defenseman, Adam Foote teach players to play defense good” going on here.

 

[theguardianII]

This is a rhetorical question. What is Tocchet going to do when part of the clubhouse is here for 7 more years, makes 8m a year, and has a NMC?

But, but , but that is the Canucks 99 point Crosby!!!!!

Get ready Horvat will be offered 9.5+ million with an 8 year NMC contract next.

"We're not worried about the cap, it will be going up to 94 million in a few years and this contract will not be an issue"

So why would they not go all in for Horvat? It is all about the window dressing after all.

And fans have sucked up "he is our hero" or "heart of the team" for 15 years. All without really looking at the standings.

Really cool how Allvin told all us fans what we want out of the team eh? A banner!!!!!! Competitive losses!!!!! Playoffs!!!!!

Well Captain Obvious that is what most fans will want but in this market the soft shuffle is done with, let's see action instead of telling the fans what they want, hell the fans don't even need to think or express themselves because they have already decided what we want.

Yup , they will take the burden of thinking off us poor stupid fans after all we can't possibly comprehend a win from a loss!

You know the only organization that this type of stuff makes better is all those southern markets that get into the playoffs, it is good for the finances of the NHL and just might be why this team is maxed out cap wise every year, because the savings are taxed to go to the bad markets.

 

[RobertKron]

This is a rhetorical question. What is Tocchet going to do when part of the clubhouse is here for 7 more years, makes 8m a year, and has a NMC?

FWIW, dude did run an allegedly mob-connected gambling ring, so I'd say that's more intimidating than that he punched people a lot a couple decades ago.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Mgmt:

1. Gonchar was great! Perfect for all our Russian dmen.

2. Foote was great! Perfect to teach Myers and OEL to play d.

3. Tocchet was great! Perfect guy to ride Millers ass cause he’s so receptive to that.

 

[Hit the post]

Is that why Aquilini and Rutherford went to Vegas for Tocchet when coaching decisions are a GMs job?

Why go to Vegas when you have Tocchet the gambling czar in town?

 

[drax0s]

May be an unpopular opinion here, but I think that Aqualini gets way too much flack as an owner of the Canucks.

Yes and no. He's spent money on the team and isn't a penny pinching scumbag so he gets credit there, but he absolutely interferes with the overall direction of the club. The things he's seemingly pushed for have also made the team worse overall.

He really needs to build up a network of trusted hockey mind advisors and find a way to remove himself from the decision-making process. After that - just hire the best candidate possible and provide clear expectations and realistic timelines to whoever he hires to run things and let them be. If they fail on their proposed 3 year turnaround - they don't get a round 2.

Like if I suddenly had a bunch of money and owned an asteroid mining company, I'm not going to be going in and dictating landing protocol and what sorts of materials we use on the lander.

 

[krutovsdonut]

May be an unpopular opinion here, but I think that Aqualini gets way too much flack as an owner of the Canucks.

Obviously , there are publicized issues regarding his personal life ,or that of his family business.

Relatively speaking, he's a Canuck fan, and mostly hasn't been a cheap owner (except in the covid year when he had to lay off a multitude of people).

I think that FA hired Rutherford so he could completely keep his nose out of the hockey ops, and leave it in the hands of a veteran team President (well intentioned) ..He felt compelled to defend Benning because he believed that eventually that JB's management would pull through.

I believe that FA's intentions for this team have been genuine (in the hiring of JR)....but the entire thing has blown up in owners/ managements faces this season.

I dont think anybody anticipated that the Canucks would be this inept this season.

Edit :...I forgot to add that I believe FA's most egregious mistake was not allowing Gillis the opportunity to rebuild the team in 2013...To carry on with the declining Sedin core....Linden was on board with this in 2014, and he hired Benning to see it through.

why did aqualini involve himself in interviewing tochett? either he has faith in jr or he does not?

 

[tradervik]

The Aquilinis run the Canucks a bit like a family restaurant with fine dining pretensions. They fired the original chef when he refused to put momma’s meatball dish on the menu. They hired an innovative chef but showed him the door when he proposed going with nouvelle cuisine. They then hire a chef from the old country but it turns out he lost his sense of taste in an espresso accident years ago. Finally they lure a celebrated chef out of retirement and give him free rein but his menu flops because he bought too many expensive ingredients without fixing the grill.

 

[arttk]

This is a rhetorical question. What is Tocchet going to do when part of the clubhouse is here for 7 more years, makes 8m a year, and has a NMC?

You lock him in a room with Adam Foote

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

why did aqualini involve himself in interviewing tochett? either he has faith in jr or he does not?

I wasn’t aware that Aqualini interviewed Tocchet..

 

[Vector]

I wasn’t aware that Aqualini interviewed Tocchet..

Rumoured he was spotted in Vegas with management meeting Tocchet.

 

[nameless1]

Why isn't there greater calling for Rutherford and Allvin's heads? This is just more of the same isn't it? Did anyone really think things were going to be any different? And who's koolaid was that?

Honestly...
At this point I think most rational people realize that it is an ownership issue.
If an experienced hand like Rutherford cannot stop the continued ownership interference...
Then there is no hope.
Rutherford and company can be fired...
And it will still be the same with the next group.

 

[RobertKron]

You lock him in a room with Adam Foote

What's Foote going to do?

 

[nameless1]

May be an unpopular opinion here, but I think that Aqualini gets way too much flack as an owner of the Canucks.

Obviously , there are publicized issues regarding his personal life ,or that of his family business.

Relatively speaking, he's a Canuck fan, and mostly hasn't been a cheap owner (except in the covid year when he had to lay off a multitude of people).

I think that FA hired Rutherford so he could completely keep his nose out of the hockey ops, and leave it in the hands of a veteran team President (well intentioned) ..He felt compelled to defend Benning because he believed that eventually that JB's management would pull through.

I believe that FA's intentions for this team have been genuine (in the hiring of JR)....but the entire thing has blown up in owners/ managements faces this season.

I dont think anybody anticipated that the Canucks would be this inept this season.

Edit :...I forgot to add that I believe FA's most egregious mistake was not allowing Gillis the opportunity to rebuild the team in 2013...To carry on with the declining Sedin core....Linden was on board with this in 2014, and he hired Benning to see it through.

I thought the same thing too when Rutherford was hired...
And then the Boudreau situation happened.
I am honestly shocked by it...
Because even though I did not like the Rutherford hire...
Something like this should never have happened with an experience hand like him.
Those old-school guys are known to run a tight ship...
And he has never shown to be a complete idiot either.

At this point...
It is clear that Aquilini continues to meddle...
And because Rutherford and company have no control.
If they do...
It would never have gone to this.
They are scapegoats...
At best.
I hopes the money made it worthwhile...
Because he pretty much threw his 50 plus years of credibility away with this episode.

 

[nameless1]

What's Foote going to do?

Yeah...
Do you expect a 51 year old ex-athlete...
Who have been retired for a decade-plus...
To beat up a 30 year old who is in his prime?


The only instance where someone who is over 20 years older won was Nolan Ryan...
Who at 46 put a then 26 year old Ventura in a headlock...
But he was still an active player back then.

The Aquilinis run the Canucks a bit like a family restaurant with fine dining pretensions. They fired the original chef when he refused to put momma’s meatball dish on the menu. They hired an innovative chef but showed him the door when he proposed going with nouvelle cuisine. They then hire a chef from the old country but it turns out he lost his sense of taste in an espresso accident years ago. Finally they lure a celebrated chef out of retirement and give him free rein but his menu flops because he bought too many expensive ingredients without fixing the grill.

To borrow from The Simpsons...
It is funny...
Because it is true.

I am not sure about the free reign part...
And I think the old country chef lost more than taste...
Since he also has trouble with the language...
But the rest of it is apt.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Rumoured he was spotted in Vegas with management meeting Tocchet.

They were in Vegas together..Are we to assume that FA had an executive decision on hiring RT..?…I think that’s a bit of a stretch

Did FA know that BB’s days as Canuck coach we’re numbered..?..probably.

I thought the same thing too when Rutherford was hired...
And then the Boudreau situation happened.
I am honestly shocked by it...
Because even though I did not like the Rutherford hire...
Something like this should never have happened with an experience hand like him.
Those old-school guys are known to run a tight ship...
And he has never shown to be a complete idiot either.

At this point...
It is clear that Aquilini continues to meddle...
And because Rutherford and company have no control.
If they do...
It would never have gone to this.
They are scapegoats...
At best.
I hopes the money made it worthwhile...
Because he pretty much threw his 50 plus years of credibility away with this episode.

Sorry,but I’m not seeing the meddling by FA that you claim under JR..

..and the job of hiring a President is the owners

 

[MarkMM]

why did aqualini involve himself in interviewing tochett? either he has faith in jr or he does not?

Not a fan of ownership or arguing that we should give them the benefit of the doubt, but I wonder if one possibility of management being on the trip is if it was to help sell the job. If Rutherford (and assuming Allvin was on board) then maybe they asked FAQ to come and personally sell the plan to Tocchet. I don't think it's unusual for ownership to be involved in sales jobs for priority targets (occassionally hear about UFA players who get meetings with ownership, I think Babcock talked about meeting with TML ownership when they were courting him, etc).

 

[Diamonddog01]

Relatively speaking, he's a Canuck fan, and mostly hasn't been a cheap owner (except in the covid year when he had to lay off a multitude of people).

First of all those layoffs were shitty and you're being somewhat flippant here regarding them and the impact they had to those staff members and their families. Additionally - yeah he spends to the cap however at the same time he's loathe to retain on salary, loathe to use buy outs, and of course the delay in the Boudreau firing came down to reluctance to pay 3 coaches at the same time. His approach to expenses / salary is weird and contradictory and he still has no grasp on the normal current expenses of a major league NA sports team and this ignorance is one of several issues killing this franchise.

 

[Vector]

They were in Vegas together..Are we to assume that FA had an executive decision on hiring RT..?…I think that’s a bit of a stretch

Did FA know that BB’s days as Canuck coach we’re numbered..?..probably.

Well, he should be signing off on the hiring of any high level management position. That would be pretty standard practice at most places. I doubt it was anything other than “meet the owners to reiterate the assurances that have already been made and offer his continued support and belief in this management group”. Not that he actually had any input.

 

[Diogenes92]

They were in Vegas together..Are we to assume that FA had an executive decision on hiring RT..?…I think that’s a bit of a stretch

Did FA know that BB’s days as Canuck coach we’re numbered..?..probably.


Sorry,but I’m not seeing the meddling by FA that you claim under JR..

..and the job of hiring a President is the owners

They were in Vegas for the purpose of meeting Tochett.

Based on the way that things have been done over the last decade, how is it surprising that ownership is still hands on?

 

[Oleksiak]

First of all those layoffs were shitty and you're being somewhat flippant here regarding them and the impact they had to those staff members and their families. Additionally - yeah he spends to the cap however at the same time he's loathe to retain on salary, loathe to use buy outs, and of course the delay in the Boudreau firing came down to reluctance to pay 3 coaches at the same time. His approach to expenses / salary is weird and contradictory and he still has no grasp on the normal current expenses of a major league NA sports team and this ignorance is one of several issues killing this franchise.

Not wanting to create dead cap because your management is stupid enough to retain salary or use a buyout is very reasonable. Rutherford is lucky he wasn't fired after he suggested that he was willing to cripple the franchise by doing so, especially after what he's done so far.