World Cup: Make the 4 nations to 8 nations

[NotCommitted]

I understand Russia not being represented in international competitions organized by the IIHF, but the NHL has Russian players on their teams!

Some of these players play huge roles on NHL teams and deserve to be represented. This tournament will literally be missing several of the NHL’s top players.


That makes no sense for this tournament though, Shesterkin and Panarin play on the same team as Zibanejad and Kakko. Lundell and Forsling play on the same team as Bobrovsky. It’s madness.

Panarin doesn't play for Russia, he plays for New York Rangers (and is one of the rare the Russian NHLers who has actually spoken openly against Putin, but that's kinda irrelevant).

Hockey and other sports in Russia have a long tradition of being deeply ingrained into the government system and being used for political purposes. To some degree that's true everywhere, which is why all the "don't mix sports with politics" is more or less non-sense, the moment you have the flag of your country on your sweater and do sports representing your country, it's political or can be used for political purposes one way or another.

NHL doesn't seem to really care, I think the easiest way for them to deal with it is just not have a Team Russia. I don't think they want the pr-disaster it would bring.

 

[Old Man Jags]

Finland and Sweden won't participate if Russia is in, simple as that.

Neither would the Czechs. Absolutely no way they would agree to play the Russians.

EDIT: Just noticed this was about the 4 nations tournament abd not related to the possible other constellations with 6 nations. So of course Czechs agreeing to play Russia or not is irrelevant as they are not part of that tournament anyway. But as you say, Finland and Sweden would also boycott any games against Russia.

 

[Shocker]

I understand Russia not being represented in international competitions organized by the IIHF, but the NHL has Russian players on their teams!

Some of these players play huge roles on NHL teams and deserve to be represented. This tournament will literally be missing several of the NHL’s top players.


That makes no sense for this tournament though, Shesterkin and Panarin play on the same team as Zibanejad and Kakko. Lundell and Forsling play on the same team as Bobrovsky. It’s madness.

Those are individual players though, big difference in that and playing for the country currently committing warcrimes.

 

[garbageteam]

Still can't think of a good reason for the Czechs to be excluded from this tournament when they are quite possibly about to win a gold medal over Finland, Sweden, Canada and the US. The Czechs have just enough NA based players to fill out the roster for their team.

5 teams is awkward but doable, no reason to exclude a team that can totally play here. Can round robin the entire group of five, give everyone four games to eliminate the worst team, and then SF and GMG. 1 team plays four games, 2 teams play five games and 2 teams play six. Not bad or too arduous at all.

 

[Kajoo72]

NHL's mindset reminds football world of 1930s with british isolationism and self-entitlement and belief that British Home Championship that kicked off already in 1883 is true World Cup of football, not that joke of a tournament called FIFA World Cup that was launched only in 1930. Then came the rude awakeining for England in 1950, first they lost to USA in 1950, and then were spanked by magical Magyars soon after. NHL self-entitlement is something this world seen before, thats really nothing new. What is new, is the World outside of it - hockey grows everywhere, catching up and while probably never being able to compete financially, its coming to the point where there is a lot of players capable to compete with NHLers without ever playing in NHL. Do you guys remember IIHF World CHampionship 40 years ago and can we compare it to 2024 ? Let me dig deep into my memories : Germans were joke, Swiss werent even there, Wiener Stadhalle empty on most of the games, US or Canada represented by amateurs or AHL rejects who were trying to survive while playing in Europe, Finns getting spanked by everyone etc etc. Now compare it to what we have witnessed in the last 2 weeks and you get into the wider picture.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

It's incredibly on brand for the NHL to host a 4 nations cup while the most recent mens gold medal game will feature two countries not invited.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

It's incredibly on brand for the NHL to host a 4 nations cup while the most recent mens gold medal game will feature two countries not invited.

If Czechs and Swiss go Berserk on every single tournament because they feel omitted… I am a happy man. And I don’t even cheer for Swiss that much.

If at all.

 

[jcbio11]

Absolutely agree.

USA
Canada
Sweden
Czechia
Slovakia
Finland
Switzerland
Germany

 

[llwyd]

Russia there and Finland and Sweden won't be. Simple as that.

 

[Old Man Jags]

NHL's mindset reminds football world of 1930s with british isolationism and self-entitlement and belief that British Home Championship that kicked off already in 1883 is true World Cup of football, not that joke of a tournament called FIFA World Cup that was launched only in 1930. Then came the rude awakeining for England in 1950, first they lost to USA in 1950, and then were spanked by magical Magyars soon after. NHL self-entitlement is something this world seen before, thats really nothing new. What is new, is the World outside of it - hockey grows everywhere, catching up and while probably never being able to compete financially, its coming to the point where there is a lot of players capable to compete with NHLers without ever playing in NHL. Do you guys remember IIHF World CHampionship 40 years ago and can we compare it to 2024 ? Let me dig deep into my memories : Germans were joke, Swiss werent even there, Wiener Stadhalle empty on most of the games, US or Canada represented by amateurs or AHL rejects who were trying to survive while playing in Europe, Finns getting spanked by everyone etc etc. Now compare it to what we have witnessed in the last 2 weeks and you get into the wider picture.

I remember it very well. Watched the Prague 1985 world championships as a boy. The enthusiasm was exactly the same, especially after we beat the Soviet Union (remember, that was a full strength Soviet Union as the Russians and others from the SU did not play in the NHL then, the Soviet government did not allow it). But the competition was much, much less. Didn’t even know Switzerland had a team (they were certainly not in A pool), Germany was a joke, Finland was not terrible but you always beat them, US only sent college kids so you got results like 11-2 and didn’t take those seriously. It was essentially just Big 4 - Soviet Union,Canada, Czechechoslovakia and Sweden. Even best-on-best was just this. US was OK. That’s it. The ice hockey world has become a lot broader.

 

[Lartsaman]

Our issue is while we can field a competitive roster we need to fill in guys from Europe whether we want or not.

Yeah I know. If they would relax the rules a little you would have an all north-american based roster though. You have enough players playing in NHL/ AHL.

 

[roto]

Many people do not seem to understand what this tournament is about (and what is isn't).

It's replacement for the all stars event next season. A four team mini tournament can be held in quite short time while an eight team tournament not.

There other reasons too. By limiting the tournament to NHL players, the league does not need to negotiate with other leagues, but can do like they want, when they want and where they want. Another fact is that NHL does not want some unknown AHL players in their tournament supposed to showcase world's best players.

NHL actually tried to get Russia along, but national federations of Finland and Sweden stated (for a good reason) that they'd not participate.

There's quite big gap between fan dreams/expectations and what NHL wants. Fans want regular best-on-best tournament between countries. NHL could not care less about it. There's only one thing they NHL cares about: money.

NHL arranges international event if it's expected to bring enough revenue and visibility for the league, when compared to risks and other cons. They arrange, if they want, a Frankenstein tournament to get all possible NHL top players in tournament regardless of what countries they represent (remember WC 2016).

It'd better if everyone looked tournaments as what they are: tournaments. What a tournament result tells is that in that particular tournament with given format and rules, the winning team won that tournament (regardless how good or bad they played). Anything else is interpretation and speculation.

The four team tournament will be a nice small addition tournament to hockey calendar. What does tournament result mean? Who cares, just enjoy the games.

 

[Strangle]

Russia there and Finland and Sweden won't be. Simple as that.

 

[BruinLVGA]

They don't want international players though.

What about an 8 team tourney.

1. Canada
2. USA
3. Sweden
4. Finland
5. Quebec
6. Team Europe
7. Czechoslovakia
8. Canada B

Great idea! It‘s almost perfect. I would add though: Canada C, an All-Star Women team (they‘d start each game up 7-0, tho), a native American+Canadian team, and a Canadian Professional Plumbers Association team (we all love plumbers, they‘re so useful). Now that‘s perfection!

 

[Czechboy]

Still can't think of a good reason for the Czechs to be excluded from this tournament when they are quite possibly about to win a gold medal over Finland, Sweden, Canada and the US. The Czechs have just enough NA based players to fill out the roster for their team.

5 teams is awkward but doable, no reason to exclude a team that can totally play here. Can round robin the entire group of five, give everyone four games to eliminate the worst team, and then SF and GMG. 1 team plays four games, 2 teams play five games and 2 teams play six. Not bad or too arduous at all.

Keep in mind, I'm bitter.lol

My solution is 5 teams, one big round robin. Top 2 advance to a gold medal game after the round robin. It would be intense as hell. 4 games guaranteed for each nation and 5 games to the top 2 teams.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

Those are individual players though, big difference in that and playing for the country currently committing warcrimes.

The decisions of one man do not represent an entire race and culture of people. Do I agree with Russian government’s actions? No. I don’t think Russian Flag doesn’t stand for the actions of the Russian government or any countries’ flag for that matter.

When you represent your country, you are representing and showing pride in your neighbors, your family and your culture.

The NHL chooses to profit off of Russian players. It’s seems unfair that they can’t represent where they come from.

 

[Kajoo72]

I remember it very well. Watched the Prague 1985 world championships as a boy. The enthusiasm was exactly the same, especially after we beat the Soviet Union (remember, that was a full strength Soviet Union as the Russians and others from the SU did not play in the NHL then, the Soviet government did not allow it). But the competition was much, much less. Didn’t even know Switzerland had a team (they were certainly not in A pool), Germany was a joke, Finland was not terrible but you always beat them, US only sent college kids so you got results like 11-2 and didn’t take those seriously. It was essentially just Big 4 - Soviet Union,Canada, Czechechoslovakia and Sweden. Even best-on-best was just this. US was OK. That’s it. The ice hockey world has become a lot broader.

My first hockey memory was Sarajevo Olympics 1984, remember we lost to Soviets 0-2 in the finals, with Kralik in the net being superb but Soviets were just absurdly good. I remember that there was insane moment, when Soviets locked us in our zone for a good 30 seconds during our powerplay, leaving us chasing shadows announcers speechless and so we all were, so good these guys were. Praha 1985 was such a fun, against that strong Soviets and Canada, it felt like a miracle.

 

[CanadaIsIrrelevant]

Russia should be in it. It's so weird that Russia isn't allowed to play. But 6 teams is enough:

Canada, US, Sweden, Finland, Russia, Czechia.

It’s not weird, Russia chose war.

The decisions of one man do not represent an entire race and culture of people. Do I agree with Russian government’s actions? No. I don’t think Russian Flag doesn’t stand for the actions of the Russian government or any countries’ flag for that matter.

When you represent your country, you are representing and showing pride in your neighbors, your family and your culture.

The NHL chooses to profit off of Russian players. It’s seems unfair that they can’t represent where they come from.

NHL block many of our players from the Olympics and World Championships.
Teams can refuse players from participating.
That has to go.

The NHL have to change not IIHF.

 

[Albatros]

The decisions of one man do not represent an entire race and culture of people. Do I agree with Russian government’s actions? No. I don’t think Russian Flag doesn’t stand for the actions of the Russian government or any countries’ flag for that matter.

When you represent your country, you are representing and showing pride in your neighbors, your family and your culture.

The NHL chooses to profit off of Russian players. It’s seems unfair that they can’t represent where they come from.

How many Russian players would you expect to take part in an event that features an entirely NHL-operated Team Russia without any involvement of Russian authorities? That would most likely be seen as an affront in Russia and unnecessarily compromise the situation of any participants back home.

 

[llwyd]

It’s seems unfair that they can’t represent where they come from.

My heart bleeds, it's broken, life has no longer any meaning. Can there be a greater atrocity in this world?

 

[Kajoo72]

The decisions of one man do not represent an entire race and culture of people. Do I agree with Russian government’s actions? No. I don’t think Russian Flag doesn’t stand for the actions of the Russian government or any countries’ flag for that matter.

When you represent your country, you are representing and showing pride in your neighbors, your family and your culture.

The NHL chooses to profit off of Russian players. It’s seems unfair that they can’t represent where they come from.

You alone mentioning purpose of representing your tribe - pride in joint achievements etc. Right now, destiny of Russia is unfortunately fully in hands of one paranoid savage. He will be rememberd as someone who waged war against his neighbours, wiping out political opposition, alowing his inner circle to steal everything that isnt nailed to floor and more. All he can offer to masses is brainwashing them with creating parallel world full of made-up enemies. Its much cheaper than sharing Russia's extreme wealth they silently stole from a nation, while feeding people with lies, lies and more lies. If we accept Russia back into international hockey and let russian players represent these values, we are exactly as their propaganda painting us for decades - corrupt, weak and amoral.

 

[Jussi]

I for one wish Finland wouldn't participate in this gimmick of a tournament.

I think we need this as a training run for the new head coach and for line/team chemistry in preparation for the Olympics.

 

[Summer Rose]

That's enough politics for this thread now, thanks.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Yeah I know. If they would relax the rules a little you would have an all north-american based roster though. You have enough players playing in NHL/ AHL.

Wouldn’t be our best roster though.

 

[Old Man Jags]

That's enough politics for this thread now, thanks.

I know you are right on principle. But it is hard to keep politics out altogether. We should avoid going into details over the war, government policy etc, and I know I am sometimes guilty of overstepping in this regard as well. But when it comes to Russian participation, the hockey and politics aspects simply cannot be completely separated. For example, if we discuss whether Russian NHL players should participate, it is hard not to mention that the Finnish and Swedish federations would boycott the tournament if they did.. But of course I cannot disagree with you that we should keep the politics to a minimum. That said, we should also not deliberately ignore that ice hockey has been used as a huge political propaganda tool by the Soviets and now by Russia. That is in contrast to governments in NA and Europe, who do not use ice hockey for propaganda (apart from the odd prime minister or president showing up at one of his or her nation’s ice hockey games, looking sheepish). So it is hard to not slightly veer into politics when ice hockey and Russia are discussed. But I promise I will edit myself more going forward on this.