Post-Game Talk: Make it 8-2-2: Canucks 2, Wild 1
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AmazingNuck
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Another poster mentioned zone-entries. Zone entry plays a big part in the powerplay. The difference between a defenseman who can make decisions instinctively and skate the puck up the ice immediately and competently is about 5-10 seconds.
Remember when the defense cleared the puck and Ehrhoff skated to the puck to retrieve it? He- on a consistent basis- immediately skates forward and enters the zone without having to dump the puck in. Now, we have Edler/Hamhuis/Garrison skate back at a slower pace, pick the puck up and wait for the rest of the skaters to settle, skate slowly up and drop pass/pass to the Sedins, to which the Sedins dump and chase.
The difference between those 2 sequences is somewhere around 10 seconds longer.. which basically drains 1/6th of the time that the Sedins are out there for the powerplay. The difference also allows the defenders to get more set, and decreases the opportunity for fast-break offense.
Was Ehrhoff vital to the set-up? Yes. He had a hard shot, knew when to pinch, had the explosiveness/speed to pinch in on opportunities where other defensemen couldn't, and scored about 15 goals per season.
Does he get more credit than he deserves? Maybe if you read about posters who are giving him more credit than he deserves, but that's not a good way to look at things.
Rather, you should look at what he added to the powerplay, what is taken away from the powerplay without him, and ask yourself if you think Ehrhoff was not vital to the powerplay. I know you never said you did not think he was not vital, but the question you ask isn't a great one since I don't know who you refer to when you say "he's given more credit than he deserves."
AmazingNuck
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Ehrhoff was above average in his own zone. However, because he was relied on so much, he had to play more minutes than he should have, which meant his errors increased. His defensive skills aren't to blame, nor his awareness- rather, his playing time is to blame. Playing 24 minutes instead of 20 means you have 4 more minutes to make mistakes, and because you are more fatigued as the game goes on.
Not at ES; Bieksa produced more in 09-10 (or tied with Ehroff) and Edler outscored Ehrhoff in 10-11. We sure could use him in the PP, though.
AmazingNuck
Registered User
Why does he need numbers? He has eyes, and most of us watch the games. He can reasonably assume that everybody knows what he knows, or at least know enough about the game to see how Ehrhoff contributed.
There is more to missing Ehrhoff than how many points Ehrhoff scored. Even if Ehrhoff did not actively score, he did contribute to the Sedins ES production. Henrik and Daniel had a lot more ES points with Ehrhoff on the team than without in the immediate surrounding seasons. Why? Because the Sedins' biggest weakness is any surface of the ice that's not in the offensive zone, especially with regards to puck-movement and skating (as well as defense but talking about that does us nothing in this discussion). Ehrhoff was the only counter to their lack of puck-movement from the defensive zone to the offensive zone. Now, we see the price that's paid- Sedins have to dump and chase just about every shift, and if not, they have to work a tight drop-pass which requires them to expend more energy than when Ehrhoff simply skated in and broke the zone for them.
Very uneven game for the Canucks. Certainly not aided by some very one-sided reffing. Gilbert had to get a penalty on Burrows. The ref lecturing LaPierre was like someone reffing a kids game. I wish sometimes the players would hand their sticks over to some of these so-called NHL refs so they could then show off in front of the fans. If they really want to be the stars of the game let's see them actually play.
The Good
Luongo - just outstanding. Some of those saves in the third were incredible. Finally just letting Luongo play his game (without the head games - like making him captain or changing his style) and he is world class.
Sedins - very little finish but created tons of chances. Had to put up with a lot of mugging but kept their noses to the grind stone and fought thru the hacking and holding. They have come to realize they will never get the calls.
Raymond - another very strong game. His play in his own zone has vastly improved. As dependable as anyone getting the puck out of his zone.
Hansen - along with Luongo the first star. I said a few years ago that I felt Hansen had Albertsson potential. If he ever gets a little better hands he's there.
Bieksa - had to bail out Garrison all night. Played a hard ass game and provided the team with some defensive push back. Made good plays out of his zone all night. He is a very solid player.
Tanev - this player has great speed in getting the puck up ice and in creating space. Anticipates the play so well and manoeuvres so well with out the puck that he makes it look easy. His work along the boards continues to improve.
The Bad
Garrison - really struggling. Opposite of Tanev in that he gets to the puck too slow and ends up getting forechecked. Never seems to buy himself some time. Also, was handing off his problems (that he created himself) to other people all game. Just hacking it over to the other defenseman or up the wing. In addition, lagged way too far behind the play. One of the first things you're taught as a defenseman is to get up to the blue line as the puck is getting moved up over your blueline. At the moment Garrison has no ability to support the rush. Also giving up the blueline and just backing right in. Garrison needs to be cut some slack b/c he is new to the team but the early returns aren't all that encouraging. Right now he is fighting it big time.
Other points
Schroeder had some room to do more with the puck but was a little too hurried. Felt he could have done more with the chances created by Hansen and Raymond but he is surviving and continues to do an adequate defensive job.
Thought all of Ballard, Edler and Hamhuis had good moments and some bad ones. Give Minny credit for a strong forecheck but lots of turnovers in our own end. Without Luongo we could have been burned bad
Waiting for Kesler is becoming akin to Waiting for Godot. You want him back soon so they can get plugs like Ebbett out of the lineup. On the other hand the team is winning and you want Kesler as healthy as possible.
Kassain exhibited some of his great potential again but there were shifts where he seemed to be wandering. Great pass on the first goal but some blown opportunities as well. Hard to be patient but its vital here. Glad to see the team still using him in all situations
Thought Ebbett had some decent shifts early in the game but faltered as the game went on. Never should be on the pk b/c he can't get any pressure on the puck. Having him out on the pk late in the game made no sense.
LaPierre was a another player with an in and out effort. Had to have the puck over to Burrows in the last minute there. But he did some heavy hitting and was good on crucial face offs. Player that is still rounding into shape it seems. Love to see him with Volpatti and Weise on the 4th line.
The Good
Luongo - just outstanding. Some of those saves in the third were incredible. Finally just letting Luongo play his game (without the head games - like making him captain or changing his style) and he is world class.
Sedins - very little finish but created tons of chances. Had to put up with a lot of mugging but kept their noses to the grind stone and fought thru the hacking and holding. They have come to realize they will never get the calls.
Raymond - another very strong game. His play in his own zone has vastly improved. As dependable as anyone getting the puck out of his zone.
Hansen - along with Luongo the first star. I said a few years ago that I felt Hansen had Albertsson potential. If he ever gets a little better hands he's there.
Bieksa - had to bail out Garrison all night. Played a hard ass game and provided the team with some defensive push back. Made good plays out of his zone all night. He is a very solid player.
Tanev - this player has great speed in getting the puck up ice and in creating space. Anticipates the play so well and manoeuvres so well with out the puck that he makes it look easy. His work along the boards continues to improve.
The Bad
Garrison - really struggling. Opposite of Tanev in that he gets to the puck too slow and ends up getting forechecked. Never seems to buy himself some time. Also, was handing off his problems (that he created himself) to other people all game. Just hacking it over to the other defenseman or up the wing. In addition, lagged way too far behind the play. One of the first things you're taught as a defenseman is to get up to the blue line as the puck is getting moved up over your blueline. At the moment Garrison has no ability to support the rush. Also giving up the blueline and just backing right in. Garrison needs to be cut some slack b/c he is new to the team but the early returns aren't all that encouraging. Right now he is fighting it big time.
Other points
Schroeder had some room to do more with the puck but was a little too hurried. Felt he could have done more with the chances created by Hansen and Raymond but he is surviving and continues to do an adequate defensive job.
Thought all of Ballard, Edler and Hamhuis had good moments and some bad ones. Give Minny credit for a strong forecheck but lots of turnovers in our own end. Without Luongo we could have been burned bad
Waiting for Kesler is becoming akin to Waiting for Godot. You want him back soon so they can get plugs like Ebbett out of the lineup. On the other hand the team is winning and you want Kesler as healthy as possible.
Kassain exhibited some of his great potential again but there were shifts where he seemed to be wandering. Great pass on the first goal but some blown opportunities as well. Hard to be patient but its vital here. Glad to see the team still using him in all situations
Thought Ebbett had some decent shifts early in the game but faltered as the game went on. Never should be on the pk b/c he can't get any pressure on the puck. Having him out on the pk late in the game made no sense.
LaPierre was a another player with an in and out effort. Had to have the puck over to Burrows in the last minute there. But he did some heavy hitting and was good on crucial face offs. Player that is still rounding into shape it seems. Love to see him with Volpatti and Weise on the 4th line.
VanCanucks53
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vector209
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AmazingNuck
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Garrison was never brought in to be the Ehrhoff replacement. If he was, he wouldn't be a piss-poor skater. He was brought in to replace Ehrhoff's missing top 4 spot- that is all. Even with Salo last year, we relied HEAVILY on our big 3 defensemen for PP, ES, and EK.. which took a toll on all three of them. Garrison was brought in because he gives us another big minute eating defenseman who can play defense and allow Edler to focus his energy more on offense. Ehrhoff's production is meant to be replaced by Edler.
To be honest, I haven't really focused on Garrison, so I can only talk about the situation that surrounds him, rather than his on-ice play. From what others are saying, he hasn't done well.
To be honest, I haven't really focused on Garrison, so I can only talk about the situation that surrounds him, rather than his on-ice play. From what others are saying, he hasn't done well.
Still want a better PP. Garrison and Hamhuis are same player in my mind, so neither of them really cut it on the point.
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vector209
Registered User
Sorry, I thought Edler of 2012/13 was replacing Edler of 2010/11. My mistake.
Letting Ehrhoff go was one of the bigger mistakes Gillis made the past several years (along with Hodgson, but that's an irrelevant point in this matter).
The Canucks of 2011 were like a well oiled, state of the art machine running on premium plus grade gasoline.
The 2012 and 2013 squads seem to be state of the art machines running on regular gasoline: still capable of being great but sputtering here and there so often.
The Horvatian One
228 LBS of Pain
- Aug 22, 2010
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I'm sorry but what? The guy is only 22. Look at Lucic and tell me how many points he put up in the first 82 games. Ridiculous to expect him to score every other game.
You guys are crazy about Garrison. Bad skater? Whaaat? Garrison is a fine defense men who is eating minutes reliably. His underlying numbers when they signed him suggested a quality possession player who was scoring last year with a very high shooting percentage. The Canucks mush have known his shooting percentage would regress, but they signed him anyways because they wanted another Hamhuis-like player who reliably devours tough minutes (thus taking some of the heavy load typically carried by Juice and Hamhuis previously).
unfortunately, fans aren't smart. They see the goal column and had expectations for Ehrhoff. Knew this reaction would happen. Shelve your power play expectations and know that he's still making a very positive impact on this lineup.
unfortunately, fans aren't smart. They see the goal column and had expectations for Ehrhoff. Knew this reaction would happen. Shelve your power play expectations and know that he's still making a very positive impact on this lineup.
AmazingNuck
Registered User
We have a potential fix coming in with Kesler getting healthy. When he comes back, the PP should get better, but if he does not, the problem isn't personnel, it's playing time.
The 1st unit is taking too much powerplay time. The 2nd unit needs to get powerplay time. The 2nd unit needs to be stable, needs to gel, and needs to score so that pressure can be taken off of the 1st unit.
deadinthewater
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- Jan 14, 2012
- 10,069
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I think he's been fine. That one play by the boards which led to the Setoguchi goal wasn't good, but sometimes I think people just hang on to that one bad moment and use it to summarize his whole game (tonight). It's a little unfair because all of our d-men have their share gaffes out there.
I thought garrisson was brought in to replace salo who struggled with lots of games and big minutes at his age in a top 4 role? And be a big shot on the blue line.
Anyone listening to the team 1040 post-game show?
Season ticket holders in the upper bowl calling in complaining that the Southsiders were too loud, and had the nerve to stand (from my understanding they had a section all the way to the back).
So I guess we can put to rest the myth that the "real" fans are all in the upper section.
One caller even said he prefers the arena to be quiet
It's a shame, Canucks games will never have that fun atmosphere it seems.
Season ticket holders in the upper bowl calling in complaining that the Southsiders were too loud, and had the nerve to stand (from my understanding they had a section all the way to the back).
So I guess we can put to rest the myth that the "real" fans are all in the upper section.
One caller even said he prefers the arena to be quiet
It's a shame, Canucks games will never have that fun atmosphere it seems.
vector209
Registered User
Whatever he was brought in to do, he isn't doing it yet. The only consolation is that the season's young and he hasn't had that much time to get acclimated to the system, but if he still continues to look out of place, this could be shades of old Keith Ballard coming back to bite this team.
AmazingNuck
Registered User
I don't blame you, as that's an easy mistake to make. Edler of 12/13 replacing Ehrhoff of 10/11 is the same as the Sedins of 06/07 replacing Naslund/Bertuzzi in 05/06 in that their roles were being elevated from beta to alpha.
I'm curious to why you think the Hodgson/Kassian deal was a mistake? The only problem I have is the timing, but I'm guessing you have something else in mind.
Yes. The coach runs a system that's based on puck-movement, yet they let go of the only defenseman capable of consistent and reliable puck-movement.
I blame Gillis for letting Ehrhoff go instead of trading Ballard.I think its far to early to suggest that, he gets alot of criticism for missing the net, but generally has done well defensively in his own zone imo, and puts forth a better effort then salo, our defense has really been strong in our own zone this season, marek and shannon were actually just discussing on sportsnet how under the radar our defense is playing in our own zone.
Not ready to write him off yet, i would like to see him utilize his shot better and hit the net, but im hoping that will come. We knew from flordia fans thats what we were getting with him, a guy who can be reliable in his own zone, eat big minutes, and has a good shot, his shot is the only troubling part right now.
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