Proposal: MAF to the Hurricanes

[Empoleon8771]

It is funny when Penguin fan think they will be able to dissuade Vegas from picking Murray if he was exposed. You honestly think you can offer anything worthy of Vegas not taking a young stud goalie who led his team to the SC? Not happening. Fleury has to go.

Actually, it's Rutherford who is saying that the Pens can do that. Pens fans are only suggesting it because JR has said he's going to try to do that.

Realistically, Fleury will get traded for something like Niemi or Lack, a pick and a D prospect. I think that works well for both teams.

 

[fastvoteman]

How does his no trade list work? Does he get to change it once a year before the season starts?

 

[Empoleon8771]

How does his no trade list work? Does he get to change it once a year before the season starts?

Yeah, he set the 12 teams that he couldn't be traded to in the 16-17 season for July 1st, 2016. What's interesting to see is whether Vegas is on his NTC, they're not a team yet but he could be traded there next June if he didn't put them on his NTC.

 

[Michael Farkas]

It is funny when Penguin fan think they will be able to dissuade Vegas from picking Murray if he was exposed. You honestly think you can offer anything worthy of Vegas not taking a young stud goalie who led his team to the SC? Not happening. Fleury has to go.

You're not wrong. But look at how fickle things are...granted, fans here are more fickle than GMs, but let's say Murray comes out - now with a book on him out there - and puts up poor numbers and then finishes the season hurt...all of a sudden, the narrative changes...

He doesn't have to "un-selectable" all he has to do is be equal or worse than what's available...or slightly more palatable minus any "bribe" we could offer...

Just like any draft, their scouts have to like this guy...you don't just go "oh, he won a Cup, he must be the best..." no one in their right mind thinks like that...so they're gonna evaluate him and see his progression...given that players don't progress linearly, who knows what this season has in store...

Not that goalie stats are worth much, but let's say he goes 3.09 GAA, .901 save pct. with a 6-11-4 record this season and then finishes the year on IR...you can see the threads already: "why did LV take Murray over [player with higher save pct.]...?"

Just like those 20 games last spring changed the dynamic of this thing, who knows what the next 80-100 say...

 

[SomeDude]

It is funny when Penguin fan think they will be able to dissuade Vegas from picking Murray if he was exposed. You honestly think you can offer anything worthy of Vegas not taking a young stud goalie who led his team to the SC? Not happening. Fleury has to go.

As another poster said earlier in the thread, all JR has to do is tell Vegas to either take a free pick to not select Murray or Pens will buy out MAF and they still won't get Murray. Why wouldn't they take the free pick in that scenario? It's not like the Pens are a division rival that the $2 mill in dead cap will help them.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

As another poster said earlier in the thread, all JR has to do is tell Vegas to either take a free pick to not select Murray or Pens will buy out MAF and they still won't get Murray. Why wouldn't they take the free pick in that scenario? It's not like the Pens are a division rival that the $2 mill in dead cap will help them.

Because then with Fleury bought out they can offer him a contract, it offers up another high end goalie they can try and acquire. There is no way LV is taking a 2nd rnd pick, they gain more by trying to see if JR is bluffing about that buyout. And if he is not and he buys Fleury out, he is by far the best goalie option for LV to land.

 

[go comets]

Canes have no reason to trade for a goalie. The team is no where near competing for a serious playoff run they just need to take their lumps for a season or two and stock pile young talent.

 

[Tender Rip]

Its all quite yawn worthy. Fleury will win a lot of games as per usual. Stuff will happen during the season where several teams will feel a real need for goal tending and then JR may or may not manage a deal. OR we get all the way to the end if the season and JR has to try and make a deal with Vegas which may or may not pan out. In the latter case he then has to consider his options, among which are also buying out Fleury, trading Murray (also depends on the development of Jarry, who could be stellar as well) etc.

Before that - there would be 80 regular season games and the playoffs.

Lets put the breaks on any categorical remarks.

 

[Creativero]

You're not wrong. But look at how fickle things are...granted, fans here are more fickle than GMs, but let's say Murray comes out - now with a book on him out there - and puts up poor numbers and then finishes the season hurt...all of a sudden, the narrative changes...

He doesn't have to "un-selectable" all he has to do is be equal or worse than what's available...or slightly more palatable minus any "bribe" we could offer...

Just like any draft, their scouts have to like this guy...you don't just go "oh, he won a Cup, he must be the best..." no one in their right mind thinks like that...so they're gonna evaluate him and see his progression...given that players don't progress linearly, who knows what this season has in store...

Not that goalie stats are worth much, but let's say he goes 3.09 GAA, .901 save pct. with a 6-11-4 record this season and then finishes the year on IR...you can see the threads already: "why did LV take Murray over [player with higher save pct.]...?"

Just like those 20 games last spring changed the dynamic of this thing, who knows what the next 80-100 say...

He's been one of the best goalies in the world since before he ever played a game in the NHL. There's no chance he goes 6-11-4. He doesn't need to progress at all.

 

[SotasicA]

I think Fleury would be pretty hard to move.

I think the Pens would find it easier to trade Murray. And for a better return as well.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Fleury would be pretty hard to move.

I think the Pens would find it easier to trade Murray. And for a better return as well.

Fleury would only be pretty hard to move if JR is asking for a ridiculous price for him or Fleury makes his NTC as restrictive as possible. If JR is just looking for a straight up swap for a goalie that doesn't have a NMC, I feel like 10 teams immediately would inquire about Fleury.

 

[go comets]

Fleury would only be pretty hard to move if JR is asking for a ridiculous price for him or Fleury makes his NTC as restrictive as possible. If JR is just looking for a straight up swap for a goalie that doesn't have a NMC, I feel like 10 teams immediately would inquire about Fleury.

Where are you going to find ten teams that want a goalie that is overrated and stumbles in the playoffs??

 

[DearDiary]

Where are you going to find ten teams that want a goalie that is overrated and stumbles in the playoffs??

A team trying to make the playoffs? You're acting like all trade partners for Fluery are all cup contenders. You have to make the playoffs 1st before even thinking of the cup

 

[Empoleon8771]

Where are you going to find ten teams that want a goalie that is overrated and stumbles in the playoffs??

What year is it? 2013 called, it wants its memes back.

 

[etm124]

Where are you going to find ten teams that want a goalie that is overrated and stumbles in the playoffs??

Someone hasn't watched a Penguin's post season game since 2013.

 

[Stickpucker]

Fleury would only be pretty hard to move if JR is asking for a ridiculous price for him or Fleury makes his NTC as restrictive as possible. If JR is just looking for a straight up swap for a goalie that doesn't have a NMC, I feel like 10 teams immediately would inquire about Fleury.

I think Fleury still has game and am trying to figure out the market for him....can you list the teams he'd be a clear upgrade on that can fit his caphit?

 

[bert]

Actually, it's Rutherford who is saying that the Pens can do that. Pens fans are only suggesting it because JR has said he's going to try to do that.

Realistically, Fleury will get traded for something like Niemi or Lack, a pick and a D prospect. I think that works well for both teams.

What about to the Sens for Anderson? A true viable starter in case something happens to Murray this year or next, a shorter contract than Fleury and lower cap hit giving the pens some flexibility this season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Fleury still has game and am trying to figure out the market for him....can you list the teams he'd be a clear upgrade on that can fit his caphit?

There's Dallas (Pens take back Niemi or Lehtonen), Carolina (Pens take back Lack or Ward), Edmonton (Pens take back Talbot), Ottawa (Pens take back Anderson), Buffalo (Pens take back Lehner), Calgary (Pens don't need to take anyone back), NYI (Pens take back Halak), Arizona (the Pens don't need to take anyone back, but I doubt Arizona wants to pay both Smith and Fleury) and Vancouver (Pens take back Markstrom). You also have to realize that any Fleury trade will most likely happen during the 2017 offseason before the expansion draft, so teams will have more flexibility there. Fleury would also be an upgrade on the Jets and the Jets can afford him, but they wouldn't trade for him due to needing to protect Hellebuyck.

From that list, I would expect Dallas, Carolina, Ottawa, Calgary, NYI and Vancouver to be somewhat interested in Fleury. I think Edmonton is happy with Talbot, Buffalo wouldn't want to lose Lehner after trading a 1st for him (although if he gets hurt again this year, they may be willing to do that) and Arizona won't want to spend that much money on Smith and Fleury.

What about to the Sens for Anderson? A true viable starter in case something happens to Murray this year or next, a shorter contract than Fleury and lower cap hit giving the pens some flexibility this season.

Ottawa does make some sense, I just don't know if they'd be interested in Fleury at $1.5 million or so more than Anderson. They don't exactly like spending money, so a $1.5 million extra price tag for a slight upgrade might not be something they'd want to do.

 

[Incetardis]

What about to the Sens for Anderson? A true viable starter in case something happens to Murray this year or next, a shorter contract than Fleury and lower cap hit giving the pens some flexibility this season.

This is an interesting proposal. Not sure what the plus would be. Anderson can be all world but is extremely streaky and getting up there in age and would think MAF is a clear upgrade at this point

 

[billybudd]

If Carolina isn't on Fleury's no-trade list I'd be shocked.

I'm not so sure.

Some players' NT lists list only playoff and bubble teams, so as to turn a partial NT into a full NT. Thinking is that, in-season, only contenders will be buyers, so if you block them, you've blocked everyone.

Others block teams based on geography (guy doesn't want to play in one conference or the other), climate (nobody has Florida on their NT list), nationality (certain players block all Canadian teams), or financial concerns (franchises in high tax regions=blocked).

While I think it could be taken for granted that Flower would block, say, Edmonton (higher taxes, high pressure, losing franchise, poor climate), I don't think it's easy to say anything about Carolina with any degree of certainty.

 

[bert]

Ottawa does make some sense, I just don't know if they'd be interested in Fleury at $1.5 million or so more than Anderson. They don't exactly like spending money, so a $1.5 million extra price tag for a slight upgrade might not be something they'd want to do.

This is an interesting proposal. Not sure what the plus would be. Anderson can be all world but is extremely streaky and getting up there in age and would think MAF is a clear upgrade at this point

Depending on the asset the sens would have to give up I think they might consider it. This is a good move for Pittsburgh even if Ottawa doesnt give an extra asset as it gives cap space and allows the pens to protect Murray, plus it gives them a very good option if Murray were to go down or struggle.

What does Fleury make in real dollars over the duration of the rest of his contract? If it was front loaded I could see this seriously working and making sense for both teams.

Anderson has just been pretty good too be honest, not that streaky the sens have a tendency to hang him out to dry. He has consistently stepped up in the playoffs. He is just getting a bit up there at this point probably only a couple good seasons left in him.