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MacKinnon or Matthews

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Zybalto said:
So far in their Career:

Matthews:
Goals/game: .596 (7th all time)
Points/game: 1.051

MacKinnon:
Goals/game: .366
Points/game: .977

Pretty sure you take Matthews here if you want to start a franchise as he's shaping up to be a generational goal scorer and just into his prime.


It's more fun to compare them right now though.

This past season:

Matthews:
Goals/game: .788
Points/game: 1.269

MacKinnon:
Goals/game: .417
Points/game: 1.354

Individual Awards and Accomplishments:

Matthews:
NHL Second-team All-Star
2021 Rocket Richard winner
3rd place Lady Byng Trophy
2nd place Hart Trophy
Top 3 Finalist Lindsey Trophy
27th Selke Trophy

MacKinnon:
11th place Lady Byng Award
3rd Place Hart Trophy Award
22nd Selke Trophy

I actually think they are both getting snubbed somewhat on their defensive game but it's pretty clear that everyone from the writers to the players thinks Matthews was slightly better than MacKinnon this past season.
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Wasn't Mackinnon also a Lindsay finalist?

97, 34, 29 were top 3 then 87

I'd say this year can say Matthews was a bit ahead of Mack but Mack has the better track record with 2018 to 2020 Mack being a tier above Matthews.

I have Mack as 3rd best in the league and Matthews as 5th after this year
 
Zybalto said:
So far in their Career:

Matthews:
Goals/game: .596 (7th all time)
Points/game: 1.051

MacKinnon:
Goals/game: .366
Points/game: .977

Pretty sure you take Matthews here if you want to start a franchise as he's shaping up to be a generational goal scorer and just into his prime.


It's more fun to compare them right now though.

This past season:

Matthews:
Goals/game: .788
Points/game: 1.269

MacKinnon:
Goals/game: .417
Points/game: 1.354

Individual Awards and Accomplishments:

Matthews:
NHL Second-team All-Star
2021 Rocket Richard winner
3rd place Lady Byng Trophy
2nd place Hart Trophy
Top 3 Finalist Lindsey Trophy
27th Selke Trophy

MacKinnon:
11th place Lady Byng Award
3rd Place Hart Trophy Award
22nd Selke Trophy

I actually think they are both getting snubbed somewhat on their defensive game but it's pretty clear that everyone from the writers to the players thinks Matthews was slightly better than MacKinnon this past season.
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Macs numbers are worse because he did not explode out of the gates like Matty did. Pretty sure his numbers look much better over the last few years. Either way it is like picking between a ferarri and a Lamborghini.
 
I really like Nate and loved watching him play for the Mooseheads while I lived in Halifax, but this is Matthews.
 
hamzarocks said:
Wasn't Mackinnon also a Lindsay finalist?

97, 34, 29 were top 3 then 87

I'd say this year can say Matthews was a bit ahead of Mack but Mack has the better track record with 2018 to 2020 Mack being a tier above Matthews.

I have Mack as 3rd best in the league and Matthews as 5th after this year
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Lindsey finalists were McDavid, Matthews and Crosby.

After McDavid, there's a bunch of guys that are close this year really. Many out there put emphasis on goal scoring which gives Matthews an edge I think.
 
Zybalto said:
Lindsey finalists were McDavid, Matthews and Crosby.

After McDavid, there's a bunch of guys that are close this year really. Many out there put emphasis on goal scoring which gives Matthews an edge I think.
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Ah I see, they gave Crosby a place or two too high in the Lindsay race.

Goal scoring is important, though sometimes it's given to much importance.

Some people rather take 50 Goals and 90 points over 40 goals and 110 points which I don't get (used to be the case with Ovechkin after his prime ended)

Overall Matthews is a top 5 player and had a season living up to his deal outside of 7 disappointing playoff games which hopefully were due to the wrist injury
 
Mackinnon gets loads of PP time.

Give Matthews that PP time and a couple guys who actually know how to shoot like Makar and Rantanen and let's see what he can do.
 
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IPS said:
Mackinnon gets loads of PP time.

Give Matthews that PP time and a couple guys who actually know how to shoot like Makar and Rantanen and let's see what he can do.
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PP teammates are not an excuse for Matthews

Tavares, Marner,Nylander Rielly are an elite group of players to play on the PP with

PPs drawn may be valid argument but teammate quality wise the leafs 1st unit was stacked

They just failed to perform and execute as a unit with so much star power should
 
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Mackinnon is faster on the ice than the rate of decay eating away on our forests and biodiversity by the rapid and undeterred concentrations of heat trapping particulate matter. Mathews has a better shot though
 
hamzarocks said:
Ah I see, they gave Crosby a place or two too high in the Lindsay race.

Goal scoring is important, though sometimes it's given to much importance.

Some people rather take 50 Goals and 90 points over 40 goals and 110 points which I don't get (used to be the case with Ovechkin after his prime ended)

Overall Matthews is a top 5 player and had a season living up to his deal outside of 7 disappointing playoff games which hopefully were due to the wrist injury
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Thats the players themselves voting for the Lindsey.

.......and the comparison from last season in an 82 and based on games played would be:

Matthews:

65 Goals, 104 points

Mackinnon:

34 Goals, 111 points

Matthews is also much better on faceoffs, blocked shots and led the league in takeaways....and he had a bad wrist much of the year.

Matthews is so good that when he is injured and "only" scores 5 points in 7 games against the hottest goaltender in the playoffs but still plays lights out defense and crushes his checkers, the entire city tries to tear him down. Matthews is just stupid good and it's not surprising those closest to the game have him the 2nd best player ATM.
 
hamzarocks said:
PP teammates are not an excuse for Matthews

Tavares, Marner,Nylander Rielly are an elite group of players to play on the PP with

PPs drawn may be valid argument but teammate quality wise the leafs 1st unit was stacked

They just failed to perform and execute as a unit with so much star power should
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That's true but Keefe ran the PP units like an absolute idiot sticking washed up Thornton and Simmonds on PP1 with Matthews and Marner.
 
The ironic thing about Mac iin this discussion is that he also hasn't been able to carry his team in the playoffs. Hasn't been able to deliver during difficult games and series.
 
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Zybalto said:
Thats the players themselves voting for the Lindsey.

.......and the comparison from last season in an 82 and based on games played would be:

Matthews:

65 Goals, 104 points

Mackinnon:

34 Goals, 111 points

Matthews is also much better on faceoffs, blocked shots and led the league in takeaways....and he had a bad wrist much of the year.

Matthews is so good that when he is injured and "only" scores 5 points in 7 games against the hottest goaltender in the playoffs but still plays lights out defense and crushes his checkers, the entire city tries to tear him down. Matthews is just stupid good and it's not surprising those closest to the game have him the 2nd best player ATM.
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Will need to see if Matthews can sustain his level of production from this year before I think he becomes locked in at 2nd best. He got the runner up in hart/Lindsay for this year but overall it takes more than 1 season of play/dominance to jump up in such rankings (otherwise Draisaitl would be 2nd or 1st right now)

Mackinnon has the proven track record while Matthews needs to build on that

Also Matthews 5 points were overrating his conversion as he had 4 assists 2 of which he accidently touched (Hyman goal in game 4 and the Nylander empty net goal in game 7). He wasn't converting his own chances and didn't create many for his linemates in games 5-7. Price also while really good wasn't the hottest goalie in the playoffs vs the Leafs, he let in second chances and was off his timing on Goals. Other lines found the back of the net while the top line didn't change their style and stuck with shooting from the slot in heav traffic zones

He wasn't being matched up against a group of offensive catalysts. The Habs put Danult on in hopes of limiting Matthews lines generation and conversion. They didn't do much for generation as the leafs line got looks but his line did do well in stopping the leafs 1st line from scoring and putting the leafs up which a team as unskilled as the Habs would struggle to come back from

Habs were turtling against the leafs and relying on poor shot placement, conversion, blocking shots, and great key movements by Price to stop the leafs 1st line from taking control of games early and often. Habs style was built to have the game be 0-0 as long as possible before striking against a lower leafs line which they did in games 5-7 for the most part.

Matthews play really wasn't special for the level of player he is and looking at his shooting he wasn't able to get his shot off cleanly from his shooting areas which helped the Habs survive the 1st lines zone time. This series was definitely not one he'd love to repeat and one which isn't sustainable to be repeated both from a low shooting perspective and a shot generation perspective as teams in the Atlantic have much better and offensively capable 1st lines which can play a back and forth style matchup as opposed to Danult lines sit back and weather the storm with luck and grit style
 
Menzinger said:
The ironic thing about Mac iin this discussion is that he also hasn't been able to carry his team in the playoffs. Hasn't been able to deliver during difficult games and series.
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Agreed. Mackinnon looked like he was a heat seeking missile at the end of the season and first round, which is gear I wish Matthews would be able to consistently get to in the postseason, but Mackinnon also went right into the Vegas brick wall and ultimately didn't get it done either.
 
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Korg said:
MacKinnon, significantly greater compete level and playoff performance. Matthews could still turn it around, but he has a ways to go to convince me otherwise.
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Agreed mate. Mack goes beast mode I. The playoffs and plays a power game. I have him as second to McDavid in the league
 
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hamzarocks said:
Will need to see if Matthews can sustain his level of production from this year before I think he becomes locked in at 2nd best. He got the runner up in hart/Lindsay for this year but overall it takes more than 1 season of play/dominance to jump up in such rankings (otherwise Draisaitl would be 2nd or 1st right now)

Mackinnon has the proven track record while Matthews needs to build on that

Also Matthews 5 points were overrating his conversion as he had 4 assists 2 of which he accidently touched (Hyman goal in game 4 and the Nylander empty net goal in game 7). He wasn't converting his own chances and didn't create many for his linemates in games 5-7. Price also while really good wasn't the hottest goalie in the playoffs vs the Leafs, he let in second chances and was off his timing on Goals. Other lines found the back of the net while the top line didn't change their style and stuck with shooting from the slot in heav traffic zones

He wasn't being matched up against a group of offensive catalysts. The Habs put Danult on in hopes of limiting Matthews lines generation and conversion. They didn't do much for generation as the leafs line got looks but his line did do well in stopping the leafs 1st line from scoring and putting the leafs up which a team as unskilled as the Habs would struggle to come back from

Habs were turtling against the leafs and relying on poor shot placement, conversion, blocking shots, and great key movements by Price to stop the leafs 1st line from taking control of games early and often. Habs style was built to have the game be 0-0 as long as possible before striking against a lower leafs line which they did in games 5-7 for the most part.

Matthews play really wasn't special for the level of player he is and looking at his shooting he wasn't able to get his shot off cleanly from his shooting areas which helped the Habs survive the 1st lines zone time. This series was definitely not one he'd love to repeat and one which isn't sustainable to be repeated both from a low shooting perspective and a shot generation perspective as teams in the Atlantic have much better and offensively capable 1st lines which can play a back and forth style matchup as opposed to Danult lines sit back and weather the storm with luck and grit style
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I thought Matthews got plenty of good looks and when he wasnt getting stopped by Price, he was hitting posts or blowing shots just wide of an uncovered part of the net. We can have disagreements on plays and whatnot but he's got all the 5v5 underlying stats of a superstar in the first round and Danault's stats are his worst ever playoffs, and probably one of the worst 7 game stretches of his career.

Nevermind Matthews misses though, he had the most shots on net of any player in the first round, the 3rd highest Individual Expected Goals (iXG) of any player in the first round, the most takeaways of any player in the first round, the best takeaway to giveaway ratio in the first round, 3 penalties drawn and none committed, the most blocked shots of any player in the first round, etc.. etc..

Even though it turned out he was playing injured worse than what was thought, he was just a beast and really wanted that series but was the 2nd best player in the series to Carey Price.

We can talk how the powerplay remained putrid, we can talk how depth players literally gave games away with stupid giveaways, we can talk about how 6 forwards scored 4+ points (for 32 points) and the entire rest of them couldnt manage more than 1 or less in a 7 game series (5 points total). The amount of hate Matthews and Marner have gotten just blows my mind considering we had players literally feeding the Habs 2 on 0s in overtime.
 
The way I see it is Matthews has one of the best shots on the planet...when he gets the puck.

MacKinnon is one of the fastest, more explosive players on the planet.

One on one against each other has to be MacKinnon. Mac will always be first to the puck. And Macs mitts are sick. I think everyone here would agree with Macs speed and hands. One one one, Matthews never touches the puck and if he does, Mac takes it back pretty quick.
 
Matthews was on pace for 64 goals last season over 82 games....potentially with damaged wrist for some of it. My choice is Matthews. Matthews could get 70 goals next year. U could make the case for either player.
 
Menzinger said:
Yep. It's definitely noticable that they've escaped some well deserved scrutiny for those playoffs performances
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Or it could just be that we don’t post on the Avs board like we do on Leafs board.
Or the fact that Mack said him and his team have not won anything and it is frustrating and himself and the team needs to work harder Vs Everything I did looks fine and I won’t change anything.
Or it could just be that Avs fans are just better fans than Leafs fans, afterall most of them were born when their team last won the Cup or at least won a round of playoffs.
Or a combination of the above
 
NMacrules said:
The way I see it is Matthews has one of the best shots on the planet...when he gets the puck.

MacKinnon is one of the fastest, more explosive players on the planet.

One on one against each other has to be MacKinnon. Mac will always be first to the puck. And Macs mitts are sick. I think everyone here would agree with Macs speed and hands. One one one, Matthews never touches the puck and if he does, Mac takes it back pretty quick.
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I doubt that. Matthews is one of the best puck thieves in the league and holds the puck better too, I don't think he gets the puck from Matthews easily at all.
 
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