MacKinnon/Makar vs McDavid/Nurse

[Regal]

The offensive difference between Nurse and Makar is not greater then the difference between McDavid and Mackinnon. Nurse is also more physical and better defensively.


This is McDavid and Nurse for me.

His defensive impact is much, much worse than Makar's. The offensive difference will also be huge once Nurse's shooting percentage regresses. I fully expect Makar to outscore Nurse by 30+ points and might even double him. Hell, this year, Makar paced to outscore Nurse by 29 over a full season. Granted Nurse is limited by PP time, but he also hasn't shown to be very good there.

 

[Three On Zero]

His defensive impact is much, much worse than Makar's

Nurse doesn't have "defence" in his vocabulary

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Totals last year:

McDavid and Nurse = 141 points and +48
MacKinnon and Makar = 109 points and +39

Nurse had double the amount of goals as Makar and 7 more even strength points than Makar (although Makar did play less games). Not saying Nurse is a better player than Makar, as Makar is incredible but it's not this massive gap some are arguing.

The gap between McDavid and MacKinnon appears larger than the gap between Makar and Nurse.

I take Nurse’s offensive numbers with a grain of salt considering how he comes by them.

Ignoring McDavid’s generational season (which is why I could understand people picking the Edm duo here), Nurse roves around more for his offence than Makar does. Which leads to being out of position and attack coming the other way. One of the things that makes Makar such a rare beast is that he doesn’t need to take as many risks to create offence. Nurse is obviously good, but it’s important to distinguish the difference in their offensive creation and the affect they have on their own team and the opposition.

Now, if Nurse continues to score at a 23 goal pace like this season, then I could see going with the Edmonton pair. Even if he’s roving around a lot, it’s still a ton of goals.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Gotta go with the MacKar

MacKinnon a better all around forward, Makar a better defenceman

40pt gap in production cancelled out by the defensive dynamo MacK.

 

[Three On Zero]

40pt gap in production cancelled out by the defensive dynamo MacK.

Too bad points aren't everything

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

McDavid is by far the best but Nurse is also by far the worst and that contract's horrendous. MacKinnon and Makar

Exactly.

 

[dahrougem2]

Totals last year:

McDavid and Nurse = 141 points and +48
MacKinnon and Makar = 109 points and +39

Nurse had double the amount of goals as Makar and 7 more even strength points than Makar (although Makar did play less games). Not saying Nurse is a better player than Makar, as Makar is incredible but it's not this massive gap some are arguing.

The gap between McDavid and MacKinnon appears larger than the gap between Makar and Nurse.

Why are you using these numbers? Both MacKinnon and Makar missed time last season. Pro-rated over a 56 game season, MacKinnon and Makar put up a combined 132 points compared to McDavid's and Nurse's 141.

The gap between Makar and Nurse is significantly larger than the gap between McDavid and MacKinnon.

 

[8999]

If roster building and salary cap are considered, Nurse is almost irrelevant to the question. CM97, NM29, and CM8 are Top 3 at their positions and could be on the top unit for every team in the NHL and even Team Canada. Every team in the league would do whatever it takes to make room for them cap-wise and I think you have to take 2 vs. 1, even if that one player is McDavid.

A closer poll might be: "Do you take just McDavid or McDavid + Nurse?"

Depending on the team, some would probably take the former.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Too bad points aren't everything

Too bad MacK brings nothing else to the table to make up for that gap in production.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

His defensive impact is much, much worse than Makar's. The offensive difference will also be huge once Nurse's shooting percentage regresses. I fully expect Makar to outscore Nurse by 30+ points and might even double him. Hell, this year, Makar paced to outscore Nurse by 29 over a full season. Granted Nurse is limited by PP time, but he also hasn't shown to be very good there.

I mean, it's the same poster who argued with me that Nurse's defense is close to Pelech's. So clearly he believes Nurse is something he isn't defensively.

 

[Wheatking]

Not surprised by the results. HF downplays the gap between McDavid and MacKinnon, and loves to find excuses to talk about how much Nurse sucks.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not surprised by the results. HF downplays the gap between McDavid and MacKinnon, and loves to find excuses to talk about how much Nurse sucks.

I think the difference is between the solid top pairing D and the best defenseman in the game versus the best forward in the game versus a top five forward in the game.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not surprised by the results. HF downplays the gap between McDavid and MacKinnon, and loves to find excuses to talk about how much Nurse sucks.

Because in Mackinnon's case, he's still a top 3, top 5 player in the game, even if he's not as good as McDavid. In Nurse's case, he's not a top 10 defenseman while Makar's shown the ability to be a top 5 defender in the league.

It's kind of like do you want Wayne Gretzky and Charlie Huddy or Bryan Trottier and Denis Potvin. Gretzky's superior to Trottier, but Trottier's still one of the all-time greats. Whereas the gap between Potvin and Huddy is massive.

 

[Hisch13r]

Not surprised by the results. HF downplays the gap between McDavid and MacKinnon, and loves to find excuses to talk about how much Nurse sucks.

I do agree the gap between McDavid and MacKinnon is quite significant and bigger than people believe. Nurse isn’t all that great though and his contract is brutal

 

[McFlash97]

His defensive impact is much, much worse than Makar's. The offensive difference will also be huge once Nurse's shooting percentage regresses. I fully expect Makar to outscore Nurse by 30+ points and might even double him. Hell, this year, Makar paced to outscore Nurse by 29 over a full season. Granted Nurse is limited by PP time, but he also hasn't shown to be very good there.

your post is so clueless.

do you even watch Nurse ?

seriously stop commenting on things that you dont analyze.

defensive impact is much much worse ?

 

[Regal]

Because in Mackinnon's case, he's still a top 3, top 5 player in the game, even if he's not as good as McDavid. In Nurse's case, he's not a top 10 defenseman while Makar's shown the ability to be a top 5 defender in the league.

It's kind of like do you want Wayne Gretzky and Charlie Huddy or Bryan Trottier and Denis Potvin. Gretzky's superior to Trottier, but Trottier's still one of the all-time greats. Whereas the gap between Potvin and Huddy is massive.

That's funny, I was thinking of that comparison but with Lowe when I was considering this thread.

 

[Regal]

your post is so clueless.

do you even watch Nurse ?

seriously stop commenting on things that you dont analyze.

defensive impact is much much worse ?

Nurse gives up some of the most shots, chances and goals in the league when he's on the ice and more than the Oilers give up when he's not. This idea that he's some defensive stalwart is objectively false. And if he is good defensively and the reason for those numbers is because he plays an all-out offensive game with McDavid and Draisaitl, then his offense also needs to be put in context. The fact is Makar brings more offense while actually improving his team's defensive metrics. He's a significantly better player than Nurse. It's like comparing Nathan MacKinnon to Logan Couture.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

your post is so clueless.

do you even watch Nurse ?

seriously stop commenting on things that you dont analyze.

defensive impact is much much worse ?

Most of these stats will normalize next season. Oilers played in the scoring heavy Canadian league so its tough for defenders to have strong goals against stats.

Aves played in a division with literally only four NHL teams. So their defense and offense stats are inflated.

Let Makar have his once in a lifetime season at age 21. He's not sniffing a Norris anytime again.

Nurse if the type of guy who is like Dennis Potvin. He is dynasty.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

If the NHL goes to the Olympics you might see all 4 out on the ice at the same time.

Dev Toews is going to take that spot over Nurse.

 

[Cloned]

Dev Toews is going to take that spot over Nurse.

Toews will be in the penalty box and Canada will have McDavid/MacKinnon/Nurse/Makar as the PK unit.

 

[McFlash97]

Nurse gives up some of the most shots, chances and goals in the league when he's on the ice and more than the Oilers give up when he's not. This idea that he's some defensive stalwart is objectively false. And if he is good defensively and the reason for those numbers is because he plays an all-out offensive game with McDavid and Draisaitl, then his offense also needs to be put in context. The fact is Makar brings more offense while actually improving his team's defensive metrics. He's a significantly better player than Nurse. It's like comparing Nathan MacKinnon to Logan Couture.

Here comes the blanket statements from this guy again.

Nurse is more well conditioned currently and can play ridiculous amounts of minutes per game without losing his quality of play. Makar has a ways to go to catch Nurse there.

Secondly the amount of turnovers Makar makes on a shift by shift basis is far beyond what Nurse was doing last season.

Is Makar a more dynamic defenseman capable of taking over a Game ...Yes , but trying to throw blanket statements to significantly shortchange Nurse in a comparison to judge there defensive prowess makes you lose any credibility.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Here comes the blanket statements from this guy again.

Nurse is more well conditioned currently and can play ridiculous amounts of minutes per game without losing his quality of play. Makar has a ways to go to catch Nurse there.

Secondly the amount of turnovers Makar makes on a shift by shift basis is far beyond what Nurse was doing last season.

Is Makar a more dynamic defenseman capable of taking over a Game ...Yes , but trying to throw blanket statements to significantly shortchange Nurse in a comparison to judge there defensive prowess makes you lose any credibility.

Makar giveaway/takeaway ratio:
14/25

Nurse giveaway/takeaway ratio:
45/18


You hate to see facts get in the way.

 

[Regal]

Here comes the blanket statements from this guy again.

Nurse is more well conditioned currently and can play ridiculous amounts of minutes per game without losing his quality of play. Makar has a ways to go to catch Nurse there.

Secondly the amount of turnovers Makar makes on a shift by shift basis is far beyond what Nurse was doing last season.

Is Makar a more dynamic defenseman capable of taking over a Game ...Yes , but trying to throw blanket statements to significantly shortchange Nurse in a comparison to judge there defensive prowess makes you lose any credibility.

What blanket statements am I making? How is mentioning Nurse's terrible defensive stats losing credibility? Please, tell me. Are facts blanket statements? To me, what does lose credibility is talking out your ass, such as mentioning turnovers, which is shown to you above to be not true. Or mentioning minutes like Nurse's extra 1:20 a game is anything significant. Or that minutes matter when one player is much better. But congrats on Nurse maintaining his worse play for slightly longer I guess.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Here comes the blanket statements from this guy again.

If anyone is doing this in here, it's you.

 

[Muffin]

Here comes the blanket statements from this guy again.

Nurse is more well conditioned currently and can play ridiculous amounts of minutes per game without losing his quality of play. Makar has a ways to go to catch Nurse there.

Secondly the amount of turnovers Makar makes on a shift by shift basis is far beyond what Nurse was doing last season.

Is Makar a more dynamic defenseman capable of taking over a Game ...Yes , but trying to throw blanket statements to significantly shortchange Nurse in a comparison to judge there defensive prowess makes you lose any credibility.

You have to be a pretty big homer to think Nurse is actually better than Makar defensively.