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LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) VI

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4thline said:
Obviously :naughty:

Or, and stay with me on this one, all those things are incredibly impressive, and are along with watching him are why I'm confident that he'll be a ~35 goal winger annually...
but this tournament for the most part doesn't add anything to answering the knocks that would hold him back from being more than that at the nhl level.
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Lol his upside is easily 40+
 
Ironic005 said:
Lol his upside is easily 40+
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Lol his upside is probably around 50. But if you look closely at my post you'll see the words "confident that he'll be" a ~35 goal scorer annually

I'm not confident that he'll get to that 50 goal upside, because frankly even with his devastating skillset to get to that level in the faster, tighter checking, more congested and generally better nhl will require big steps in either his first step/ agility to get separation or strength to fight people off. These are far from givens.
 
Laine will easily score 50+ goals in a season multiple times and will be a stable 40-45 goal scorer at worst.
 
ijuka said:
Laine will easily score 50+ goals in a season multiple times and will be a stable 40-45 goal scorer at worst.
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You do realize that there are a grand total of 2 players that have sustained that rate over the last 4 seasons?
 
The game has changed, there was only one 50 goal scorer this season. Ovie. Infact only 1, in the past 3 years. Ovie again 3x.

I think it's reasonable to think Laine will be a 40 goal winger in the NHL. He will probably hit 50 atleast once in his career with his skillset. But I would bet he will be one of the league's top 3 goal scorers on a consistent basis as I think this is a better measure than just looking at a raw arbitrary number.

Goals in the NHL are becoming rarer, the game has changed. So if you can find a guy that puts in 40 a year, and top off at 50. That is consistently in the top echelon of goal scorers. Then that player becomes a very valuable commodity in the NHL where goals are hard to manufacture.
 
4thline said:
You do realize that there are a grand total of 2 players that have sustained that rate over the last 4 seasons?
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You notice there are 0 players who have what he's done over the last 26 seasons? You realize Ovechkin at 7 months older went 1+1=2 in 6 games? You understand his skill set suits NHL very well? You understand it's frustrating to watch Finnish team's play in WCs because Laine's not even getting set up properly?

Furthermore, take Laine-Aho-Puljujärvi line in WJCs. Aho's struggling in the WCs despite being considered the most important member of the trio back then and being far older.

It's a prediction. I'm just adding 1 + 1 = 2 and attempting to predict how he'll turn out, I'd say that my estimations are conservative.
 
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ijuka said:
You notice there are 0 players who have what he's done over the last 26 seasons? You realize Ovechkin at 7 months older went 1+1=2 in 6 games? You understand his skill set suits NHL very well?

It's a prediction.
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It's a bold one. You're predicting that he's going to become the best goalscorer in the world based on a ten game sample under very different conditions and the assumption that because no other players have done it (most weren't given the opportunity, and even if they were its still 10 games) none could do it.

It does suit very well. Hence confidence that he'll be what amounts to a top 15-20 scorer for most of his career, with the upside for more.
 
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ijuka said:
You notice there are 0 players who have what he's done over the last 26 seasons? You realize Ovechkin at 7 months older went 1+1=2 in 6 games? You understand his skill set suits NHL very well? You understand it's frustrating to watch Finnish team's play in WCs because Laine's not even getting set up properly?

It's a prediction.


Furthermore, take Laine-Aho-Puljujärvi line in WJCs. Aho's struggling in the WCs despite being considered the most important member of the trio back then and being far older.
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You are being very optimistic. A player still needs to find the time space to be able to unleash his shot. On the big ice its easier, in the NHL there is less time and space plus D men are better. You are setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect him to just waltz in and pot 50.

There is my main concern with Laine, does he have the character to take setbacks where it isn't coming easy to him. Is his track suit going to end up in the Shower?
 
4thline said:
It's a bold one. You're predicting that he's going to become the best goalscorer in the world based on a ten game sample under very different conditions and the assumption that because no other players have done it (most weren't given the opportunity, and even if they were (still 10 games) none could do it.

It does suit very well. Hence confidence that he'll be what amounts to a top 15-20 scorer for most of his career, with the upside for more.
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It's not based on a ten game sample size... But it's still quite an important one especially when you consider how little they've played to his strengths. He's playing the wrong wing and he's constantly trying to move to a position where he can score goals from(You often see him swinging towards his correct wing / towards the center). Headshakey decisions especially on Finnish power play, constant missed passes to him open in premium scoring situations, defensemen using their terrible shots instead of passing to him... And despite all this he's still the scoring leader. I'm also not sure what's with him passing so much instead of shooting but that's a simple matter of the coach giving an order in order to fix. Especially many passes through the box are pretty terrible. Still, you see how fast and accurate his passes actually are? They're essentially bullets in themselves. This I've almost never heard anyone talking about. If his weakness is 1v1s in the corners for loose pucks, that too should not be too tough to fix considering his extreme reach(He actually uses an even longer stick than players his size normally would) and his massive frame.

The logic I use is: NHL teams actually understand how to use a player's strengths to their advantage. This isn't the case of a player constantly getting set up for free goals. Another thing is his extreme self criticism and drive to improve. He's unhappy with his play and all his interviews reflect that, that despite doubling the u18 record and leading the tournament in scoring. You think a Russian player for instance would ever think like that? My prediction is that he'll become the best winger in the world and it won't take very long.
 
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By the way, according to Selänne, Laine's shot is "faster than 100 mph" but he didn't say how much faster. Selänne said that his own shot is only around 85 mph. In this season's all stars competition, Ovechkin's shot was measured at 101.8 mph. So according to Selänne saying the shot is as hard as Ovechkin's isn't unreasonable, and that it's fast enough that he can score off the same spots as Ovechkin without someone blocking the goaltender's view, which Selänne himself was not able to do. Selänne also said that Laine is better than he was at that age.


At above, at least I accompanied that with some analysis.
 
Becoming a solid 40 goal scorer doesn't sound too much of a reach when you consider the fact how Laine has outscored some of the recent 40 goal scorers when they were in their prospect years. And not many of those players possessed the ability to shoot the puck like Laine can.

Correct me if I'm wrong but those facts alone should make talks about Laine becoming a solid 40 goal scorer reasonable. Not set in stone but reasonable.
 
Im the Vatman said:
Becoming a solid 40 goal scorer doesn't sound too much of a reach when you consider the fact how Laine has outscored some of the recent 40 goal scorers when they were in their prospect years. And not many of those players possessed the ability to shoot the puck like Laine can.

Correct me if I'm wrong but those facts alone should make talks about Laine becoming a solid 40 goal scorer reasonable. Not set in stone but reasonable.
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Most people agree it's reasonable and he's in that 35-40 range. I've seen very few people suggest otherwise. And let's please, not for one second, act like 35-40 goals is an underachievement. There's very few in the game who produce that many goals. :laugh:
 
I can't believe Winnipeg is going to get this guy. They weren't even that bad this year, they are basically stealing the second best prospect since Crosby, with McDavid being #1. If Laine stays out of the East though, I won't complain.
 
ijuka said:
By the way, according to Selänne, Laine's shot is "faster than 100 mph" but he didn't say how much faster. Selänne said that his own shot is only around 85 mph. In this season's all stars competition, Ovechkin's shot was measured at 101.8 mph. So according to Selänne saying the shot is as hard as Ovechkin's isn't unreasonable, and that it's fast enough that he can score off the same spots as Ovechkin without someone blocking the goaltender's view, which Selänne himself was not able to do. Selänne also said that Laine is better than he was at that age.

At above, at least I accompanied that with some analysis.
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Wouldn't take claims like these from former players too seriously.. unless it's from Jeremy Roenick.

There is much more to a shot than its power btw. There virtually 0% chance Laine turns into a sniper as deadly as Ovechkin.
 
By the way about the WHC.. Evgeny Freaking Dadonov is outscoring McDavid, Hall and Perry.. what can you deduce from this?
 
BB88 said:
Laine is leading team Finland in scoring but somehow here it's nothing.
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John Tavares scored 72 goals as a 16 year old in the CHL, which was pretty much unheard of. AFAIK he isn't hitting 50+ every year. He hasn't even reached 40 yet.

Laine looks like an elite prospect so far, but those Ovechkin comparisons are dumb as hell. First, he's far from the skater OV was at his age. They're different players.

Second, this isn't NHL 16. No one minus OV (who's a top-5 goal scorer all-time) nets 50. So unless rules change drastically, Laine isn't having multiple fifty-goal seasons.
 
Laine is starting to really hit rare territory as a prospect. Kind of puts things in perspective what a talent he is. And doing it playing on his wrong wing. Wonder where he would be on this list if he played on his natural Left Wing this tournament.

He will almost assuredly will pass Stamkos to be #2 to only Crosby on this list.

 
Passchendaele said:
Wouldn't take claims like these from former players too seriously.. unless it's from Jeremy Roenick.

There is much more to a shot than its power btw. There virtually 0% chance Laine turns into a sniper as deadly as Ovechkin.
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Hockey players are far too humble. Gretzky has said some really ridiculous things since retiring too.

A 40 year old guy is going to say he is better than the 18 year old at the same age? He's far too humble to do that.
 
Passchendaele said:
John Tavares scored 72 goals as a 16 year old in the CHL, which was pretty much unheard of. AFAIK he isn't hitting 50+ every year. He hasn't even reached 40 yet.

Laine looks like an elite prospect so far, but those Ovechkin comparisons are dumb as hell. First, he's far from the skater OV was at his age. They're different players.

Second, this isn't NHL 16. No one minus OV (who's a top-5 goal scorer all-time) nets 50. So unless rules change drastically, Laine isn't having multiple fifty-goal seasons.
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Hmm don't know what this has to do with my Laines performance at the Worlds comment.

Laine is playing against men, and has been playing and he has been setting up records, but can't just give credit to him for those, there's always something taking away the credit.
 
The Winter Soldier said:
Laine is starting to really hit rare territory as a prospect. Kind of puts things in perspective what a talent he is. And doing it playing on his wrong wing. Wonder where he would be on this list if he played on his natural Left Wing this tournament.

He will almost assuredly will pass Stamkos to be #2 to only Crosby on this list.

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What?
 
When you look at all-time numbers of IIHF events in relation to age Robert Reichel looks like a guy who should of dominated. Granted he had a great start to his career. No idea what happened, just remember Leafs getting him at the tail end.
 
Laine is not much comparable to Ovechkin anyway's he is more like Mario Lemieux/Jaromir Jagr stylish player. Ovechkin is stonehanded Wood head compared to him. About only think that relates them is shot
 

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