LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) VI

[QnebO]

I always see Ovi being downplayed as an 18-year-old compared to Laine.

If Matthews and his numbers can be put down because he played in Switzerland, doesn't the same apply to Laine against Ovi?

Russia has the better league.

Actually, there was consensus even FEL being second best league in the world after NHL somewhere in 90's and early 2000's likely, too. Russia didin't have KHL back then, they didin't draw much foreign talent. Tough league for sure but Russian league was not what KHL is today after collapsing of Soviet Union, as shows in this results table also:
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jääkiekon_Euroopan_cup

 

[QnebO]

AHL is AHL, tho. Teemu Pulkkinen 46gp 34+27=61pts.

Yea AHL is no Liiga, Laine's efforts in the playoffs for example weight ton more. If you wan't to be lock in NT, play well in the NHL. No other way to get automatically in.

 

[Legion34]

This is getting insane. He scored 2 unique goals? He shot the puck from the point.........
Its not like ovys diving spinning goal.

How can people say laine outplayed matthews?

He scored 1.21 ppg. Laine scored 0.71ppg. The leagues are
Different. But he still outscored him. Its tough to compare higher numbers inlower leagues.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

This is getting insane. He scored 2 unique goals? He shot the puck from the point.........
Its not like ovys diving spinning goal.

How can people say laine outplayed matthews?

He scored 1.21 ppg. Laine scored 0.71ppg. The leagues are
Different. But he still outscored him. Its tough to compare higher numbers inlower leagues.

The main point people have is the postseason of Laine's and Matthews' underachieving in the playoffs. WJC was a place to compare the two and now the ongoing WHC is the main one.

 

[cotopaxi]

He scored 1.21 ppg. Laine scored 0.71ppg. The leagues are
Different. But he still outscored him. Its tough to compare higher numbers inlower leagues.

That's your argument? No it's not that tough to compare when you consider the reasons behind those point totals. Even if it would be, Laine's other merits this year are much more impressive than Matthews'. Laine has won 2 golds already + MVP of FEL playoffs this year, Matthews not so much. And you know it's not like Laine wouldn't have easily been on of the most important players in both of those golds.

 

[Legion34]

That's your argument? No it's not that tough to compare when you consider the reasons behind those point totals. Even if it would be, Laine's other merits this year are much more impressive than Matthews'. Laine has won 2 golds already + MVP of FEL playoffs this year, Matthews not so much. And you know it's not like Laine wouldn't have easily been on of the most important players in both of those golds.

What reasons?

I just watched the clips. 17 goals in 46 games and what 12 of them were on the power play? He circles and has an amazing shot. Looks like a great player. He looks like kessel curling and kovy one timing from the off point. But lets not go nuts here.

Laine had a big playoff. Matthews didnt

Wasnt matthews second in ppg in his league in ppg and voted
2nd in league mvp?

Laine scored 17g and 33 pts in 46 games
Matthews. 22g and 46 pts in 36 games

Laine and matthews were both wjc medalists and allstars. Laine won FEL conn smythe. Matthews
Won rising star (rookie of the year) and was second in league mvp voting.

Its not like laine destroyed matthews. At all. They both played amazing. People saying laine clearly outplayed matthews is just wrong

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

id hate having the stress of top pick at the draft... jets are so damn lucky to have one of Matthews/Laine available for them and not have to decide

 

[Gabranth]

Of course. Ovi scored 24 points in 53 games in his draft year though and was very close to AM in terms of age.

Hard to compare what is most impressive, though AO made the World Cup and World Championships team, which is crazy. We'll see if Laine succeeds in the same, probably not.

Edit: also good point that it's hard to compare different eras, also theres the fact that ovi became one of the best scorers of all time, which would've been a very unlikely proposition for him when he was Laine's age.

If Laine continues to play like this I see no reason not to have the same Jokinen-Barkov-Laine line for World Cup. I mean who would take his place? Donskoi? Teräväinen? Perhaps Filppula.

He is already one of our best scorers... if not the best.

 

[thomast]

What reasons?

I just watched the clips. 17 goals in 46 games and what 12 of them were on the power play? He circles and has an amazing shot. Looks like a great player. He looks like kessel curling and kovy one timing from the off point. But lets not go nuts here.

Laine had a big playoff. Matthews didnt

Wasnt matthews second in ppg in his league in ppg and voted
2nd in league mvp?

Matthews is 7 months older than Laine. When Laine was 18 year old basically at playoffs he had 10 goals and 5 assists in 18 games against 3 top 4 teams in Liiga. He had by far best GPG and was 5th in PPG in heavily defensively orientated Liiga. He was also best player in the league during that time and won the MVP. How would we stack 18 year old Matthews stats against 18 year Laine's stats? You have to take players progression during the season more seriously especially when the other is 7-8 months older which is crucial for prospects of this age. Laine was playing in limited role and with grinders most of his season because he wasn't mature enough to play in bigger role. After WJC's he exploded and got more icetime but he got first line minutes and linemates only in his 3 last games of Liiga finals.

 

[cotopaxi]

What reasons?

I just watched the clips. 17 goals in 46 games and what 12 of them were on the power play? He circles and has an amazing shot. Looks like a great player. He looks like kessel curling and kovy one timing from the off point. But lets not go nuts here.

Laine had a big playoff. Matthews didnt

Wasnt matthews second in ppg in his league in ppg and voted
2nd in league mvp?

If Laine was given top line minutes like Matthews from the start of the season, you think he couldn't even put up similar numbers as Matthews? Especially if he played in NLA which is worse in every category than FEL? Laine played his regular season with not so good players because he made that line good. In FEL you actually need good depth to be able to win. And remember that Laine is now about the same age as Matthews was in the beginning of this season.

 

[Jukka]

He's gonna benefit a lot from playing with guys like Koivu and Barkov. In the first goal Barkov yealled from behind to make that drop pass. In the second there was a perfect pass from Koivu. We will see how well he'll do against better countries.

 

[Flair Hay]

id hate having the stress of top pick at the draft... jets are so damn lucky to have one of Matthews/Laine available for them and not have to decide

Getting either one in the peg really isn't fair to the mediocre teams with less young talent than the Jets. But you take the good luck like the bad luck when it comes.

Flip a coin as to who has more NHL points next year?

 

[QnebO]

He's gonna benefit a lot from playing with guys like Koivu and Barkov. In the first goal Barkov yealled from behind to make that drop pass. In the second there was a perfect pass from Koivu. We will see how well he'll do against better countries.

Koivus pass was only basic. It wasnt actually anything special, D to D pass at powerplay that didin't get ****ed up, but many players can give those passes.

 

[Stavros]

Perttu Lindgren 1,24 ppg in NLA with the best +/- rating of league did not make team Finlands whc team, Laine did while having only 0,74 ppg. Teemu Pulkkinen 1,34 ppg in AHL last season, plays in 4th line and Laine plays in first with Barkov. These stats mean very little without understanding the context.

 

[thomast]

Koivus pass was only basic. It wasnt actually anything special, D to D pass at powerplay that didin't get ****ed up, but many players can give those passes.

That pass from Koivu was bad IMO. Too slow for onetimer. Laine's shot had power so it went in.

 

[cotopaxi]

Perttu Lindgren 1,24 ppg in NLA with the best +/- rating of league did not make team Finlands whc team, Laine did while having only 0,74 ppg. Teemu Pulkkinen 1,34 ppg in AHL last season, plays in 4th line and Laine plays in first with Barkov. These stats mean very little without understanding the context.

Exactly this.

I counted that Laine has played so far in 91 official games this season, Matthews 54. That's pretty interesting actually.

edit. I actually might have few games too much(?) for Laine but it's still almost double.

 

[Legion34]

If Laine was given top line minutes like Matthews from the start of the season, you think he couldn't even put up similar numbers as Matthews? Especially if he played in NLA which is worse in every category than FEL? Laine played his regular season with not so good players because he made that line good. In FEL you actually need good depth to be able to win. And remember that Laine is now about the same age as Matthews was in the beginning of this season.

Last year matthews was beating the records of kane. Kessel and eichel. So he did ok.

Horrible Argument. Players who play on top lines play against better players. Look at kessel. He started scoring when he went to a lower line. Kadri scored 44 pts in 48 games as a third line rookie. 4 yrs later he is scoring about 44 in 82. Its not as easy as that.

People are projecting a lot and assuming that this jump will continue. It might. It might not.

If matthews scored 10 g and 20 pts in FEL i would agree. He was way more productive in a lower league. So its tough to compare.

Both had great seasons. Laine did not clearly beat matthews. Matthews has played better for longer.

 

[cotopaxi]

Horrible Argument. Players who play on top lines play against better players.

Oh ok - well, Laine still played much tougher minutes than Matthews. Most NLA teams are really bad, most 3rd and 4th lines in NLA are really bad. In NLA team can have 4 foreigners in their lineups per game, FEL doesn't have any kind of limit for foreigners/team. You underestimate the gap between FEL and NLA.

 

[Mad Brills*]

leafs don't need another winger, even though he'll be great.

 

[Legion34]

Matthews is 7 months older than Laine. When Laine was 18 year old basically at playoffs he had 10 goals and 5 assists in 18 games against 3 top 4 teams in Liiga. He had by far best GPG and was 5th in PPG in heavily defensively orientated Liiga. He was also best player in the league during that time and won the MVP. How would we stack 18 year old Matthews stats against 18 year Laine's stats? You have to take players progression during the season more seriously especially when the other is 7-8 months older which is crucial for prospects of this age. Laine was playing in limited role and with grinders most of his season because he wasn't mature enough to play in bigger role. After WJC's he exploded and got more icetime but he got first line minutes and linemates only in his 3 last games of Liiga finals.

You also have to consider that one moved to a whole different country and had his first
Taste of playing in an adult league. Much harder transition.

Again if they played in the same league and laine out played him. Fine. If they had similar stats
When laine played in a better league (30g in ahl vs 30 in nhl). Fine

Matthews dominated him. But in a lower league. So its not as clear

 

[Legion34]

Oh ok - well, Laine still played much tougher minutes than Matthews. Most NLA teams are really bad, most 3rd and 4th lines in NLA are really bad. In NLA team can have 4 foreigners in their lineups per game, FEL doesn't have any kind of limit for foreigners/team. You underestimate the gap between FEL and NLA.

To be fair. I might be. But i have watched enough clips of prospects like kapanen cutting through d there like its nothing. There
Was a whole sequence in that clip where the team looked
Like it had no idea how to play d

 

[cotopaxi]

Matthews dominated him. But in a lower league. So its not as clear

You don't make any sense, just admit it.

 

[urho]

Its not like laine destroyed matthews. At all. They both played amazing. People saying laine clearly outplayed matthews is just wrong

You're right and I agree that there are some quite blind Finnish posters in here even trying to bring Matthews down just to pump Laine's tires. It's sad because he doesn't need that. They're both quite safe prospects with awesome potential. Matthews goes first at least 20/30 times and it's not going to be MacK vs. Barkov-kind of deal when Leafs goes with Matthews.

 

[Stephen]

Of course. Ovi scored 24 points in 53 games in his draft year though and was very close to AM in terms of age.

Hard to compare what is most impressive, though AO made the World Cup and World Championships team, which is crazy. We'll see if Laine succeeds in the same, probably not.

Edit: also good point that it's hard to compare different eras, also theres the fact that ovi became one of the best scorers of all time, which would've been a very unlikely proposition for him when he was Laine's age.

Yeah but what about the fact that Laine doesn't skate, move, have the same explosiveness or hit like Ovechkin at all? His mechanics look a lot more like Blake Wheeler/Rick Nash, and that isn't to suggest upside, but you're not exactly drafting an Ovechkin/Kovalchuk clone here.

 

[Liminality]

I definitely see some similarities to Kovalchuk when I watch Laine. Wicked shot that can beat you anywhere. Can see him being a ppg, 40g a year winger, deceptively fast skater for a big man who later on in his career refines his game to be more well rounded. Kovalchuk going #1 overall in 2002 but doubt that'll happen this year with Laine when Matthews is the consensus.

He's going to be surrounded by a lot of good players in Winnipeg too if they're not traded. He'll need the supporting cast as a winger and maybe Scheifele is good enough to centre him in the future, who knows.