LW Patrik Laine (2016, 2nd, WPG) XIV

[Eternal Leaf]

He had an average tournament based on his current skill set.

Admitting that doesn't make him a lesser player. A lot of Finnish players have had a forgettable tournament and played far below their abilities.

It's going to take time to adjust. It might take 20 NHL games or an entire season. Just a matter of when with him.

The only way he'll struggle is if he starts believing some of the nonsense being mentioned in this thread (i.e. he was the best player, he had a great tournament). When a player starts believing things like this, they stick with the status quo. This goes for all prospects. It goes for players who have had great tournaments. There is always work to do, and it begins by admitting you weren't up to scratch in certain games.

It's one thing to say he had a good tournament from a development perspective and another to say he had a good tournament period. The former is fine; the latter is silliness.

On a brighter note, he showed sparks with his shooting (i.e. the goal), passing, and willingness to get physical. This tournament was great for his education as a player in NHL-sized rinks.

Also, good lord who taught Vatanen how to pass?

 

[JetsHomer]

You're not telling the whole story.

But Laine practically performed exactly how I expected. Struggling to adapt to smaller ice with less time and space than he's normally used to.

There was an article referring to him as the "Calder frontrunner." I think that looks utterly foolish now, he's got tons of work to do.

The only comments that look utterly foolish are the ones coming from a certain group that like to downplay Laine's ability to have an impact in the NHL next season due to 3 pre-pre-season games

 

[ffh]

Yeah, and all it took was below .900 goaltending, and an injury to their #1 D man to prevent that. You also had Finland better than NA, so I wouldn't be so quick to judge.

what's that I was right and you were wrong. thank you. also didn't your post on the other thread start off with don't make excuses. back to laine he will score pp points this year lots of them. cant wait.

 

[Divine]

what's that I was right and you were wrong. thank you. also didn't your post on the other thread start off with don't make excuses. back to laine he will score pp points this year lots of them. cant wait.

Yeah, Team NA was disqualified on a tie-breaker. Lost 1 game due to an injured goaltender and #1 defenceman... and despite all that, was a post away from winning the group. Team Finland didn't win a game... scored 1 goal in the tournament, you need to relax here. You said "Team NA will lose when they face a real team", and they went 2-1. In no world are you right.

What were you right about? I think most people agree Team NA was the best team in their group. They dominated every game, were the better team every game. They were playing with 2 injured goalies, and their #1D got a concussion. I don't know how you twist that into you being right. You predicted all of that?

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

I didn't think he looked all that bad tbh. The entire team was pretty bad and it's not like he was much of a bright light on it. But I wasn't disappointed by how he looked.

It might be my expectations were a bit lower - I figured he was 18 and playing on North American ice, so I wasn't expecting him to really stand out.

I think the experience will be good for him - and he can say he did something no one else his age has. I hope it means that he'll be able to hit the ground running in training camp.

have the jets said when they expect him to arrive?

 

[ijuka]

Providing random stats that fit your narrative in every thread. Doing whatever you can to defend Laine and pump him up the be the best prospect ever. It doesn't really bother me i'm just trying to figure out why you feel the need to defend him, justify all of his mistakes and deflect responsibility away from him despite his numerous screw ups throughout the entire tournament.

Random stats? I believe I've mentioned 5v5 Corsi most of the time, especially if it's a positive thing.

I wasn't defending him by posting that stat, I just pointed out a positive stat.

If you don't understand the concept of a 18-year-old playing on a team that as a whole scores 1 goal in 3 games, I don't know what to tell you. What about those 60p NHLers who didn't score a point?

 

[JetsHomer]

Why is there always an excuse for him anytime he plays poorly ? He sucked period. The entire team did to be fair to him. For a guy that said he's going to be better than Ovi in 5 years he played ridiculously bad. He failed the eye test and the numbers test. He needs to work on his effort and compete level, he looks way to complacent out there. That's really the only thing i don't like about his game. He has the talent but the dude did not apply himself the best he could.

Either you didn't watch the games or you have terrible hockey talent evaluation skills. Is it A or B?

 

[yourbestfriend]

I knew this was gonna happen. Not that Laine was gonna have a disappointing tournament, but that when he did fail to live up to expectations, all the doubters were gonna come out.
I blame all of the Laine fanboys on his board for that. You know who you are.

I've said repeatedly (check my post history) that the comparisons to ovie and all these other great scorers are in the end the most unfair to Laine.
There were a bunch of fanboys claiming that because Laine had a better WC than ovie that he would be the better goal scorer etc etc. lol shutup. You guys pump him up so freaking high, what do you think the doubters are gonna say when he doesn't do so well?
Anybody with any sense knew that going into this tourney he was not gonna rip it up like he did in the WC. Playing against the worlds best and on NA ice, wtf did you expect? Lighting up the WC doesn't mean anything.

He'll be good, just like most high draft picks, but lower your expectations and give him some time.

 

[AvroArrow]

Random stats? I believe I've mentioned 5v5 Corsi most of the time, especially if it's a positive thing.

I wasn't defending him by posting that stat, I just pointed out a positive stat.

If you don't understand the concept of a 18-year-old playing on a team that as a whole scores 1 goal in 3 games, I don't know what to tell you.

Stats that fit your narrative. Purposely choosing to ignore stats that say otherwise. The whole point in throwing out one random stat out of context is to imply he performed well. It's weird, when he plays well "he's the best prospect in the world, he's only 18 and dominating men in liiga" When he gets dominated and shut down "he's only 18 and was playing against men" That's my point. When he performs poorly every excuse imaginable is thrown out to justify his performance. It's just insane to look at things THAT subjectively.

Isn't he supposed to be the guy responsible for scoring goals ?

 

[ijuka]

I did actually mention 5v5 20% corsi when he had it as well.

5v5 corsi isn't really a random stat and I mentioned it for the sake of mentioning it. What you seem to be upset about is that he actually had really good corsi stats(Which is weird as the past 2 games they were really bad).

 

[AvroArrow]

Either you didn't watch the games or you have terrible hockey talent evaluation skills. Is it A or B?

Reads alias.

 

[ijuka]

Isn't he supposed to be the guy responsible for scoring goals ?

I don't think so if he was playing on the third line.


His stickwork was weaker than in the past, I have to wonder what that is all about. Is it due to the stick change or did he regress...

 

[BB88]

Reads alias.

He wasn't dominating but he wasn't lazy either.
He was making defensive plays and covering for defenseman.

His line also rarely spent any time in the D-zone, that line definitely didn't get dominated in any of these 3 games, which is pretty damm impressive.

 

[JetsHomer]

Stats that fit your narrative. Purposely choosing to ignore stats that say otherwise. The whole point in throwing out one random stat out of context is to imply he performed well. It's weird, when he plays well "he's the best prospect in the world, he's only 18 and dominating men in liiga" When he gets dominated and shut down "he's only 18 and was playing against men" That's my point. When he performs poorly every excuse imaginable is thrown out to justify his performance. It's just insane to look at things THAT subjectively.

Isn't he supposed to be the guy responsible for scoring goals ?

Reads alias.

Ah thanks for answering my question, guess it was A. Didn't watch the games.

Laine got dominated? Care to show some examples of this? Cause to me being either the best or second best forward on your team is not getting dominated

I like how you basjhIjuki for "just throwing out random stats" when your whole argument seems to be throwing random insults, never backing them up and hoping they stick. The cognitive dissonance required for an argument like that is really something to behold

 

[JA]

Although Patrik Laine's overall ability to generate chances is better than it was last May, his shot placement hasn't quite been on the same level. Last season, his shot was pinpoint accurate. He could pick corners with precision, but he also had slightly more time and space to work with. The level he has been expected to play at in the World Cup tournament has been above the standard NHL level, as this is a best-on-best tournament against the world's best international teams. His greatest asset, his shot, was probably his least impressive attribute this week -- his shots rarely seemed threatening. His ability to carry the play on a consistent level, on the other hand, has improved.

Several of his shots sailed wide, and the high pace of the game forced him to take some imperfect chances. The smaller ice also took away from his ability to make plays from the outside -- it's something he will adjust to as he figures out how to become more effective in tighter spaces. Once he refines his game and adjusts to the pace, the lethal shooting will come back.

If this tournament took place towards the end of the season, I think we would have seen him convert some of his opportunities. He had many chances and proved over the past week that he has added new elements to his game. He has never been able to rush the puck up the ice with such ease and composure as he has done throughout the World Cup tournament.

I expect him to impress with the Jets this year. The NHL season generally starts at a slower pace than we've seen at the World Cup so far, which will allow him to adjust and learn over the course of the campaign. He had a slow Liiga season last year as well, but after December he really found his game. I think he'll become progressively better as the year goes on.

 

[AvroArrow]

Ah thanks for answering my question, guess it was A. Didn't watch the games.

Laine got dominated? Care to show some examples of this? Cause to me being either the best or second best forward on your team is not getting dominated

I like how you basjhIjuki for "just throwing out random stats" when your whole argument seems to be throwing random insults, never backing them up and hoping they stick. The cognitive dissonance required for an argument like that is really something to behold

Random insults ? like what ? Saying Laine under performed and played terrible isnt an insult it's criticism. Back them up how ? By saying he had 0 points and was a -1 in the tourney ? Is that enough back up for you ? And being the best forward on the worst team isn't necessarily a good thing. I wonder if you would feel the same about Laine if he wasn't a Winnipeg prospect.

 

[Morbo]

He's going to get all the opportunity in the world with the Jets this year. Sure he's not McDavid out there, but who is? He'll get a lot of powerplay time I'm sure. As tempting as it might be I don't think you can take a few games with a fairly disappointing Finnish squad and extrapolate that onto the coming season.

 

[Heldig]

Well the anti hype is in full force now. I wonder if the Jets are thinking of sending him back to Finland in hopes he can recover his abilities and be considered a legit prospect again .

 

[JetsHomer]

Random insults ? like what ? Saying Laine under performed and played terrible isnt an insult it's criticism. Back them up how ? By saying he had 0 points and was a -1 in the tourney ? Is that enough back up for you ? And being the best forward on the worst team isn't necessarily a good thing. I wonder if you would feel the same about Laine if he wasn't a Winnipeg prospect.

Saying he was "dominated" when this is objectively untrue is throwing out random insults and hoping they stick.

I like how you bash Ijuka using corsi as "random stats" but at the same time user +/- in an attempt to bash Laine. No, nothing biased about your posting at all.

Do you think Laine being -1 helps your argument when he's the youngest player in the tournament and played on a team that scored 1 goal and gave up 9?

 

[AvroArrow]

Saying he was "dominated" when this is objectively untrue is throwing out random insults and hoping they stick.

I like how you bash Ijuka using corsi as "random stats" but at the same time user +/- in an attempt to bash Laine. No, nothing biased about your posting at all.

Do you think Laine being -1 helps your argument when he's the youngest player in the tournament and played on a team that scored 1 goal and gave up 9?

[mod] But what evidence would you like for me to provide ? He obviously failed to record even a single point. Had a couple chances failed to convert. Was extremely lazy on the line changes, back checks and on defense. Go back and watch the tape if you want examples.

 

[ItchyScratchy77]

Although Patrik Laine's overall ability to generate chances is better than it was last May, his shot placement hasn't quite been on the same level. Last season, his shot was pinpoint accurate. He could pick corners with precision, but he also had slightly more time and space to work with. The level he has been expected to play at in the World Cup tournament has been above the standard NHL level, as this is a best-on-best tournament against the world's best international teams.

Several of his shots sailed wide, and the high pace of the game forced him to take some imperfect chances. The smaller ice also took away from his ability to make plays from the outside -- it's something he will adjust to as he figures out how to become more effective in tighter spaces.

If this tournament took place towards the end of the season, I think we would have seen him convert some of his opportunities. He had many chances and proved over the past week that he has added new elements to his game. He has never been able to rush the puck up the ice with such ease and composure as he has done throughout the World Cup tournament.

I expect him to impress with the Jets this year. The NHL season generally starts at a slower pace than we've seen at the World Cup so far, which will allow him to adjust and learn over the course of the campaign. He had a slow Liiga season last year as well, but after December he really found his game. I think he'll become progressively better as the year goes on.

Would most agree that, besides goaltending, the Jets would probably beat this Finland team on most nights? Would most also agree that most teams in this tournament would beat the majority of NHL clubs on most nights? He's going to be put in a much better situation to succeed once he arrives in Winnipeg. He's going to be just fine. 30 goals/60 points. On a side note, no more Mr. Mcdavid as line mate. The Leafs are awful so the roles will be reversed once the season starts. No more open nets (courtesy of Mcdavid) to score on.

 

[scan15*]

[mod] But what evidence would you like for me to provide ? He obviously failed to record even a single point. Had a couple chances failed to convert. Was extremely lazy on the line changes, back checks and on defense. Go back and watch the tape if you want examples.

I think that second PP today was really bad for Laine. I honestly think he cost them the first goal of the game and possibly a win.

The whole unit looked really dangerous, Russia was flustered, but every time Laine shot the puck he would either flub the shot or shoot it right into the defender's skates.

 

[JetsHomer]

Clearly the sarcasm flew right over your head But what evidence would you like for me to provide ? He obviously failed to record even a single point. Had a couple chances failed to convert. Was extremely lazy on the line changes, back checks and on defense. Go back and watch the tape if you want examples.

This is what I want you to provide evidence for because this didn't happen.

I'm really starting to doubt you even watched the games, maybe its you that needs to watch the tape? If he was "extremely lazy on line changes and bad defensively" it shouldn't be too hard for you to provide some examples of shifts where this happened, right?

 

[BB88]

Would most agree that, besides goaltending, the Jets would probably beat this Finland team on most nights? Would most also agree that most teams in this tournament would beat the majority of NHL clubs on most nights? He's going to be put in a much better situation to succeed once he arrives in Winnipeg. He's going to be just fine. 30 goals/60 points. On a side note, no more Mr. Mcdavid as line mate. The Leafs are awful so the roles will be reversed once the season starts. No more open nets (courtesy of Mcdavid) to score on.

I'd expect the Jets team to win Finnish team pretty easily.
Pokka AHL, Lindell AHL, Lepisto KHL, Jokipakka 3rd pairing NHL, pretty pathetic blueline.

He's going to enjoy going to a team where's a defense that can move the puck, Buff, Trouba, Morrissey, Enstrom is going to feel like a dream blueline for him after this tourney.

It felt like all our blueline did in this tourney was turn the puck over and have troubles doing anything positive.

 

[Hokinaittii]

Random insults ? like what ? Saying Laine under performed and played terrible isnt an insult it's criticism. Back them up how ? By saying he had 0 points and was a -1 in the tourney ? Is that enough back up for you ? And being the best forward on the worst team isn't necessarily a good thing. I wonder if you would feel the same about Laine if he wasn't a Winnipeg prospect.

I'd understand the "he played terrible/doesn't belong in NHL" if he would turning the puck over constantly, not being able to make easy passes to his teammates, not being able to shoot the puck or getting stupid penalties etc. But he was solid in all of those areas, not as confident as we have seen him be but still not a "terrible" performance by any means.

I'd say you can describe the performance Virtanen had in last year's WJC against Finland as terrible performance, not Laine's performance in any of these WC games just because he wasn't able to standout but he also didn't anything to stupid.

It's so sad people want to see a talent like Laine fail just so they can feel better about themselves and their prospect. We need players like Laine to make this game great and enjoyable for the crowd.

That's a fact.