Value of: LW James van Riemsdyk for Top Four Defenceman

[10coach*]

You guys are dreaming.
Scandella shouldn't be on the table, either. Don't agree with the other posters assessment of Scandella. He is our most physical Dman.

Agreed. Don't think JVR brings back any of those dmen especially with the Wild being overstocked on the wing.

JVR lives in Minnesota in the offseason so maybe he wants to sign when he's a ufa

 

[jaric1862]

We have plenty of left d and left d prospects where as Hamilton is literally our only good right handed d, and we only acquired him a year ago. Looks good this season. 0 chance Flames trade him.

Well if you want a righty then JVR+Carrick+ a Pick or two?

 

[Halla]

bold = DONE!

underline: small change is copacetic
whether you keep and deal on your own or want to swap a small D for small F w/us

Jooris is doable, but we can alternatively do more pure F deadwood for D deadwood, like Tanner Glass, expiring, for ____________ on your end

pls finalize, and I will present to Ranger board

sorry, but we arent taking the anchor contracts of girardi and staal, to swap JVR for a #2C in Stepan. this proposal is beyind terrible

 

[LeafGrief]

bold = DONE!

underline: small change is copacetic
whether you keep and deal on your own or want to swap a small D for small F w/us

Jooris is doable, but we can alternatively do more pure F deadwood for D deadwood, like Tanner Glass, expiring, for ____________ on your end

pls finalize, and I will present to Ranger board

Some guy is offering you a get out of jail free card. Literally getting you out of the two boat anchors that will plague you for years to come. Then you even try to throw Tanner Glass into the mix.

Present it to the Ranger board all you like, but 99.99% of Leafs fans will hate this. This deal is absolutely atrocious and destroys our cap for the next 5 years. We have plenty of depth at C and the last thing we need is to pay $7m for our bottom pairing, who would additionally block a bunch of our kids from getting NHL minutes.

 

[bernmeister]

sorry, but we arent taking the anchor contracts of girardi and staal, to swap JVR for a #2C in Stepan. this proposal is beyind terrible

Some guy is offering you a get out of jail free card. Literally getting you out of the two boat anchors that will plague you for years to come. Then you even try to throw Tanner Glass into the mix.

Present it to the Ranger board all you like, but 99.99% of Leafs fans will hate this. This deal is absolutely atrocious and destroys our cap for the next 5 years. We have plenty of depth at C and the last thing we need is to pay $7m for our bottom pairing, who would additionally block a bunch of our kids from getting NHL minutes.

JVR is moved a full price, Stepan comes in and for multi years is HALF price
Stepan is like 20th best C, approx, makes him a 1C, not a 2C, plus has demonstrated can play with first line Ws, Kreider, etc.

the "boat anchors" are only an imposition for this year w/presumed need to protect
if you take a chance and buy now, and they modify rulings on NMCs to not being required to protect, you have won right above and beyond right there

this thread was premised on JVR for a top 4
IN A VACUUM, you could do better than a re-emerging Staal, and shockingly better Girardi (both of who would look better outside an AV system) IF you concentrated only on a D,

But the flaw there is w/Stepan AT HALF you get a much better return than you could hope for.

Not sure you currently have available now as much C depth as you say, but regardless, when you flip Stepan you can get that D you are talking about, and his value is enhanced cause for the balance of Stepan's term his employer is only paying half.
There was talk of Stepan at full pop for Dumba + before he re-signed
Stepan at half commands many nice backline choices

As for being stuck with wonder twins improved with better health and not under AV, you keep them a year or two, while these guys you are talking about are obviously and clearly not an option now, and as soon as those guys are ready, you move them as well, whether for performance/dealing with injury crisis/or to get to cap floor team.
However, you are again having Rangers pay actual half of dollars here.

So by all means be critical, and if you feel warranted, vote no.
But do please be honest in the totality of the circumstances as are accurately described above

 

[57special]

so would I. we need something more than a 2nd pairing guy with no top pairing upside if we are moving JVR.

 

[LeafGrief]

JVR is moved a full price, Stepan comes in and for multi years is HALF price
Stepan is like 20th best C, approx, makes him a 1C, not a 2C, plus has demonstrated can play with first line Ws, Kreider, etc.

the "boat anchors" are only an imposition for this year w/presumed need to protect
if you take a chance and buy now, and they modify rulings on NMCs to not being required to protect, you have won right above and beyond right there

this thread was premised on JVR for a top 4
IN A VACUUM, you could do better than a re-emerging Staal, and shockingly better Girardi (both of who would look better outside an AV system) IF you concentrated only on a D,

But the flaw there is w/Stepan AT HALF you get a much better return than you could hope for.

Not sure you currently have available now as much C depth as you say, but regardless, when you flip Stepan you can get that D you are talking about, and his value is enhanced cause for the balance of Stepan's term his employer is only paying half.
There was talk of Stepan at full pop for Dumba + before he re-signed
Stepan at half commands many nice backline choices

As for being stuck with wonder twins improved with better health and not under AV, you keep them a year or two, while these guys you are talking about are obviously and clearly not an option now, and as soon as those guys are ready, you move them as well, whether for performance/dealing with injury crisis/or to get to cap floor team.
However, you are again having Rangers pay actual half of dollars here.

So by all means be critical, and if you feel warranted, vote no.
But do please be honest in the totality of the circumstances as are accurately described above

That's great that Stepan is half price, I'm not disparaging him. But we don't need him when we already have great center depth lined up for years. He is the only attractive piece coming back, so why are we giving up JVR and taking on the two anchors for a (good) piece we don't need? It doesn't make our hockey team any better. We could flip him and get something good back, but where are we going to play this shiny new dman when we are stuck with Girardi and Staal for the next 100 years? Even if they waive for the expansion draft, there's no way they're getting picked up and they either rot on the Marlies forever or block our guys. We've got Rielly, Gardiner, and Zaitsev already in our top 4, plus guys like Carrick who need NHL minutes to deveop.

Not really sure what you're getting at in the second paragraph. Are you saying that the NMC's are the real issue? While that is a problem and would cost us a useful player in expansion, the real issue is STILL the money value. Even at the dollar values listed, those players are EXTREMELY unattractive pickups for most teams. The Ducks can't move Clayton Stoner who is paid less for only two years. Moving dumps like Bolland and Bickell are costing teams huge assets, which goes against the value that we're getting from Stepan retention. Staal and Girardi are signed until doomsday and even at 50% retention are usually not worth their contracts. It's great that Staal is having a good start to the year and I hope he returns to form, but there's no way that I'm gambling on him while he's signed for so long.

Simply put, the whole thing turns into a nightmare of "what if's", "maybe's" and flipping players around. We give up our best trade piece in JVR for a better trade piece in Stepan and get mired in the headache of getting rid of $7million for a pair of mediocre/bad defensemen.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

bold = DONE!

underline: small change is copacetic
whether you keep and deal on your own or want to swap a small D for small F w/us

Jooris is doable, but we can alternatively do more pure F deadwood for D deadwood, like Tanner Glass, expiring, for ____________ on your end

pls finalize, and I will present to Ranger board

Not sure I like the deal or the value, I was just really interested in seeing if I could make it work practically.

It's maybe doable with a pick or prospect or both but probably not if we are forced to protect both Staal AND Girardi in expansion. Not sure if that's the case.

One issue is that Stepan being similar to Kadri pushes us towards trading Kadri and keeping Bozak. Some of us prefer to keep Kadri.

Another smaller issue is that it makes us choose betwen keeping 2 or 3 of Marincin, Carrick, Hunwick , Loov and Valiev long term. And provides less ice time for them to blossom.

 

[Liferleafer]

JVR is moved a full price, Stepan comes in and for multi years is HALF price
Stepan is like 20th best C, approx, makes him a 1C, not a 2C, plus has demonstrated can play with first line Ws, Kreider, etc.

the "boat anchors" are only an imposition for this year w/presumed need to protect
if you take a chance and buy now, and they modify rulings on NMCs to not being required to protect, you have won right above and beyond right there

this thread was premised on JVR for a top 4
IN A VACUUM, you could do better than a re-emerging Staal, and shockingly better Girardi (both of who would look better outside an AV system) IF you concentrated only on a D,

But the flaw there is w/Stepan AT HALF you get a much better return than you could hope for.

Not sure you currently have available now as much C depth as you say, but regardless, when you flip Stepan you can get that D you are talking about, and his value is enhanced cause for the balance of Stepan's term his employer is only paying half.
There was talk of Stepan at full pop for Dumba + before he re-signed
Stepan at half commands many nice backline choices

As for being stuck with wonder twins improved with better health and not under AV, you keep them a year or two, while these guys you are talking about are obviously and clearly not an option now, and as soon as those guys are ready, you move them as well, whether for performance/dealing with injury crisis/or to get to cap floor team.
However, you are again having Rangers pay actual half of dollars here.

So by all means be critical, and if you feel warranted, vote no.
But do please be honest in the totality of the circumstances as are accurately described above

A. Mathews/Nylander/Bozak/Kadri/Holland/Laich (waived)/Komarov....all centers, why do we need Stepan?

B. JVR is pretty much our only option at 1LW.

C. Staal,Girardi and Glass....you're kidding....right? Why in God's name, after dumping Dion and Kessel's contracts (both better than any of the players listed here) would the Leafs ever consider taking those anchors? To move ANY of those contracts, you would need to pay a premium, you are not dumping them in a deal in which you get JVR in return.