LW Grigori Denisenko (2018, 15th, FLA; claimed by VGK)

[Kshahdoo]

So? he got like 8 minutes a game

In the KHL you must earn your minutes, exactly like in the NHL. Upcoming season will show, is he able to play pro-hockey or not... I mean, he's probably able, but on what level, this is still a question.

 

[FinlandPanther]

If Mukhambayev has a 2 PPG season in KHL he also has a shot.

Don't really get your point, but good?

 

[FinlandPanther]

In the KHL you must earn your minutes, exactly like in the NHL. Upcoming season will show, is he able to play pro-hockey or not... I mean, he's probably able, but on what level, this is still a question.

He needs to get bigger that is what is holding him back.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Don't really get your point, but good?

His point is that this upcoming season will determine if Denisenko is ready or not. It's all in his hands but thus far he isn't even close to an NHL player which is echoed by all the Russian posters here.

Just like Kshahdoo said, Kvartalnov would have definitely given him minutes if he performed just like he did to Ivanov, Alexeyev or Konovalov. But he didn't, they tried him on a top line more than once as well. It's not like he was always only getting garbage 4th line role/minutes.

Loko has great centers and crappy wings this season so all the chances for him to establish himself are there.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

This is simply historically true. Breaks my heart to see guys take the CHL route.

It doesn't help them, even though I understand why some of them choose to do this. Everyone has a different situation and there isn't always a clear path to the KHL for Russian prospects.

Is it bc of the chl tho? If so then why? Its clearly a system that can produce the majority of the best prospects on earth. Is it lack of language transition support? Is it just that ovie level talents make more money in Russia so they dont leave?

I know it's an old post but it's a relevant thing to discuss bc it's an idea that persists. A little OT tho. I forgot what thread I was in when I went to make this post

 

[MintyFresh88]

It looks like he has a Kucherov style of game...not saying he'll ever reach that level, but promising nonetheless. This upcoming KHL season should provide a good barometer for how NHL ready he is.

 

[Caser]

 

[Huck Cheever]

This is simply historically true. Breaks my heart to see guys take the CHL route.

It doesn't help them, even though I understand why some of them choose to do this. Everyone has a different situation and there isn't always a clear path to the KHL for Russian prospects.

Not every player can be a superstar. The failed prospects that took the CHL route could very well have failed in the Russian system.

It's very simplistic and egregious to just blame the CHL.

 

[mm11]

I think this kid has more potential than Kravstov

 

[Caser]

 

[Lays]

I think this kid has more potential than Kravstov

Would love to hear why considering Kravtsov has better tools and production. Denisenko performed better statistically at the WJC but Kravtsov drove the line and played C there

 

[FinlandPanther]

Would love to hear why considering Kravtsov has better tools and production. Denisenko performed better statistically at the WJC but Kravtsov drove the line and played C there

Define better "tools". Size sure. Kravstov is a much safer bet to be a great player.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I have no problem with someone saying that Denisenko has a higher ceiling. It's close between the two players, and I'd likely agree that Denisenko has a higher ceiling. But the guy who made the initial post is an Islander fan whose made these kinds of comments before against Rangers prospects, so it appears as if he's saying it to troll a Rangers prospect.

I think Kravtsov has a higher floor and is likely a better player right now. He's more well rounded, but I think Denisenko has more ability to run a game offensively. Kravtsov is talented offensively, but he doesn't drive the game as much as Denisenko can. Denisenko still has to show that he can produce in the KHL and then he has to show that he can produce in the NHL, but he has big potential.

 

[FinlandPanther]

I have no problem with someone saying that Denisenko has a higher ceiling. It's close between the two players, and I'd likely agree that Denisenko has a higher ceiling. But the guy who made the initial post is an Islander fan whose made these kinds of comments before against Rangers prospects, so it appears as if he's saying it to troll a Rangers prospect.

I think Kravtsov has a higher floor and is likely a better player right now. He's more well rounded, but I think Denisenko has more ability to run a game offensively. Kravtsov is talented offensively, but he doesn't drive the game as much as Denisenko can. Denisenko still has to show that he can produce in the KHL and then he has to show that he can produce in the NHL, but he has big potential.

Pretty much nail on the head. I was a huge Kravtsov fan and was super disappointed when the Rangers grabbed him, but Denisenko was a great consolation prize.

 

[Caser]

 

[doomscroll]

How has Denisenko looked so far this season? I just saw that he has two assists in eight games; is he suffering from his deployment, or is he simply not producing offensively? Does his play off-the-puck compensate in any way?

 

[Atas2000]

How has Denisenko looked so far this season? I just saw that he has two assists in eight games; is he suffering from his deployment, or is he simply not producing offensively? Does his play off-the-puck compensate in any way?

What did you expect out of a 19y.o. on a struggling team that fired the coach after 8 games? PPG? He's fine for his age and talent.

As far as comparison to Dorofeyev goes, ask NHL scouts why they are so effing bad at scouting Russians. Everybody and their mom over here knew Dorofeyev is a better prospect, but reasons and stuff. Denisenko goes in the mid first and Dorofeyev late in the 3rd.

 

[doomscroll]

What did you expect out of a 19y.o. on a struggling team that fired the coach after 8 games? PPG? He's fine for his age and talent.

As far as comparison to Dorofeyev goes, ask NHL scouts why they are so effing bad at scouting Russians. Everybody and their mom over here knew Dorofeyev is a better prospect, but reasons and stuff. Denisenko goes in the mid first and Dorofeyev late in the 3rd.

I was mostly intrigued since he seemed to be a somewhat prolific scorer at other levels. I don’t know anything about Dorofeyev so I don’t know what you’re saying there tbh.

Was unaware about Denisenko’s team having such a tumultuous season.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Well Kovalenko went in 6th round and if somebody watched Loko game and was told one guy went 15th, and the other in the 6th round, plenty of people would mix him and Denisenko places.

Denisenko is looking pretty bad. He just turned 19 so there is no big need to panic but he doesn't seem to be progressing much, still a highly skilled junior player who can't really make an impact at senior level, offensively or defensively. My biggest issue with him is he still looks like he weights 75 kg. Again, he is still pretty young but he has to start growing into his body at some point. And that's why Dorofeev or Kovalenko are starting to look like they are better than him. Because currently they probably are.

 

[Atas2000]

I was mostly intrigued since he seemed to be a somewhat prolific scorer at other levels. I don’t know anything about Dorofeyev so I don’t know what you’re saying there tbh.

Was unaware about Denisenko’s team having such a tumultuous season.

Denisenko's coach was McTavish to start the season. It lasted 8 games as I wrote and it was bad. So it is really too early to read something into anybody's stats on that team. Aside from the coach the team is not well built this time around. The D is abysmal and Konovalov who was the shooting star in net for them last season is having a bona fide sophomore slump. The team being bad on the other hand will open some space for young players. I am not so critical of Denisenko's play as some. He looked a bit lost last season at times mostly due to the physicality of the game he wasn't built for yet. He needs to grow muscle still. And he is 19.

Dorofeyev is often compared to him because:

-same draft class
-even younger. He will turn 19 by late October
-Dorofeyev was pretty unanimously considered a top 2 russian prospect in Russia before the draft along with Kravtsov. Some would even take Dorofeyev over Kravtsov. But then at draft day everybody in Russia was baffled by Dorofeyev falling to the 3rd round.
-Dorofeyev outperforms Denisenko so far. And while being on a team that is currently dead last too. So a similar situation there. They fired their coach too already btw. He is second in scoring with 4 pts there IIRC.

If you ask me, if I was Florida's GM I would draft Dorofeyev at 15 and be happy about it, but it is what it is now.

That is all not to say that Denisenko will bust or something. They are all fairly young. But Denisenko needs to adjust to the grown ups game and make the most out of being on a not so good team where he would get plenty of chances if he performs.

 

[Jayevs]

Pretty sure Kravtsov and Denisenko were part of the 2018 class, while Dorofeyev was part of the 2019, but yeah I had doro as the second best Russian of 19 behind Podkolzin

 

[SoundAndFury]

-same draft class
-even younger. He will turn 19 by late October

Dorofeyev and Denisenko are born only a few months apart so they are the same age basically (which is how you confused it, I assume) but they are in different draft classes which should have become obvious to you while writing the second statement here.

In any case, I don't see the point of this fixation to Dorofeyev. You wrote it, you double-downed on it, what's the point. How is this or why should it be Denisenko vs Dorofeyev? One of the reasons he slipped likely is his very early birthday but it has nothing to do with Denisenko whom we can compare to any number of players. I'd say Kovalenko is by far more relevant comparison at this point as they are playing on the same team and he is being trusted to play in more situations and is now ahead in points, even.

Having said that, your point "everybody and their mom thought/think Dorofeyev is a better prospect" is clearly not what his coaches think as neither Jandac nor Vorobyov actually give him a real role on the team. Not only that, national team coaches as well. Denisenko lead WJC team in scoring, while Dorofeyev didn't even make the team. So "everybody" is not the scouts and not the coaches. I'd say those are 2 quite trustworthy groups when it comes to player evaluation. While Loko actually puts a pretty big emphasis on giving opportunities to Denisenko for 2nd year in a row not to mention his NT accomplishments.

P.S. Guryanov or Trenin probably shouldn't have been drafted 100+ positions above Kaprizov either, for example, but not like it matters, those things happen for multiple reasons and kinda aren't relevant one to another. You can definitely see why Denisenko went so early, you definitely make a case he shouldn't have, you can make a case the gap between him and Dorofeyev, or Kovalenko, or many other prospects shouldn't be that big, in hindsight. But it doesn't matter now.

 

[Mrb1p]

How has Denisenko looked so far this season? I just saw that he has two assists in eight games; is he suffering from his deployment, or is he simply not producing offensively? Does his play off-the-puck compensate in any way?

Hes doing what Denisenko has been doing for the last three years, looking toolsy as hell but ultimately just not putting points on the board. I gave him excuses over excuses in his draft year because he has such an impressive array of skills, but Im pretty sure he just will not make it now. Hes still young for sure and maybe he picks it up, I hope so, because I had him high in that 2018 draft, but I dont have much faith left there.

 

[Atas2000]

Dorofeyev and Denisenko are born only a few months apart so they are the same age basically (which is how you confused it, I assume) but they are in different draft classes which should have become obvious to you while writing the second statement here.

In any case, I don't see the point of this fixation to Dorofeyev. You wrote it, you double-downed on it, what's the point. How is this or why should it be Denisenko vs Dorofeyev? One of the reasons he slipped likely is his very early birthday but it has nothing to do with Denisenko whom we can compare to any number of players. I'd say Kovalenko is by far more relevant comparison at this point as they are playing on the same team and he is being trusted to play in more situations and is now ahead in points, even.

Having said that, your point "everybody and their mom thought/think Dorofeyev is a better prospect" is clearly not what his coaches think as neither Jandac nor Vorobyov actually give him a real role on the team. Not only that, national team coaches as well. Denisenko lead WJC team in scoring, while Dorofeyev didn't even make the team. So "everybody" is not the scouts and not the coaches. I'd say those are 2 quite trustworthy groups when it comes to player evaluation. While Loko actually puts a pretty big emphasis on giving opportunities to Denisenko for 2nd year in a row not to mention his NT accomplishments.

P.S. Guryanov or Trenin probably shouldn't have been drafted 100+ positions above Kaprizov either, for example, but not like it matters, those things happen for multiple reasons and kinda aren't relevant one to another. You can definitely see why Denisenko went so early, you definitely make a case he shouldn't have, you can make a case the gap between him and Dorofeyev, or Kovalenko, or many other prospects shouldn't be that big, in hindsight. But it doesn't matter now.

Yeah, my bad mixing up draft years due to age and me losing inyerest in the NHL year after year. I stay put only to follow the Russians' development.

The point of Dorofeyev vs. Denisenko still remains. It is how russian prospects are not properly evaluated by NHL scouts. Drafting Dorofeyev in the 3rd was downright criminal while Denisenko might have been a reach in mid first. Not as big of a failure as Doroveyev falling that deep, but still. If a proper scout would evaluate the tools along with his scoring on junior levels and how those tools would apply going forward he might have been a proper late first round pick which is where he'd belong in my opinion on draft day.

Every year some Russians get hyped up and some fall through the mesh for no reason. Yep, that happens to all of them, but with Russians it is painfully obvious that Russia is underscouted.

As for Dorofeyev's deployment, there was an interview in which his GM talked of him as of some secret weapon. Not even giving away the name(while it was obvious for those who follow juniors he was referring to Dorofeyev). He should have been 17 or so at the time. So there is no validity to your statement they did not know about what they have in him in Magnitogorsk. Deploying teens is just handled differently in the KHL. And it is done right if I look at the success rate. This time around you can see how Dorofeyev has grown as a player and now he deserves the spot and the minutes. And btw he is still 18. So making the WJC last time would have been a big exception. There are only so many exceptions to be made and NT staff decided to go with older guys(who were still underagers). Nothing out of the ordinary too.

P.S. I think there is a post of mine to dig up where I stated I liked Kovalenko more right around their draft day.

 

[Caser]