LW Grigori Denisenko (2018, 15th, FLA; claimed by VGK)
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Ratsreign
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- Mar 12, 2018
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Charlotte Checkers elected not to play this AHL season, FL’s prospects are playing with Syracuse for this season.
JohnLennon
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- Mar 26, 2011
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I know you're trying to be silly but it's not like he came to NA purposefully to play in the AHL. He came for NHL tryouts in order to try making the Panthers out of camp, and was ready to accept not making the team and playing in the AHL instead. I feel like that's pretty reasonable? Not to mention he might want to get more acclimated to NA ice+play more minutes instead of playing limited minutes in the KHL like last year.How's Mr.2ndBestProspectNotInTheNHL doing?
Right now I see an idiot move by Denisenko paying all the negative dividents on his development.
That is not at all reasonable for a KHL regular.
Playing limited minutes in the KHL is exactly what he needed for his development. He is now playing in a worse league. He would by now have almost 60 KHL games for development and growth.
Anyway, he was always overrated in NA for some reason. I don't expect him to become a superstar. The problem is he might follow into the steps of so many russian prospects before him who never reach even their average potential after goint to NA too early. If he thought he is NHL ready, he was delusional.
JohnLennon
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- Mar 26, 2011
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Guy played barely 40 games in the KHL and couldn't get quality minutes. He wasn't a regular. You'd honestly rather that over playing big minutes in the AHL on NA ice? If so I just completely disagree. I don't see how a 20 year old kid coming over in an attempt to make the NHL team is unreasonable. Clearly the Panthers invited him to do so.. makes no sense to deny the request in order to continue playing mediocre minutes in a league you haven't found success in.
A fresh start in North America appears to be exactly what the doctor ordered early on too, as he has had a pretty decent start to his AHL career.
I’m usually on board with a player developing in Russia but this is a case where Denisenko just needs to get used to North American ice and get more minutes. It was a good choice for his career.
Only one of the two can be true. He is either as good as many NA media-"experts" praised him(including the 2nd best prospect outside the NHL title), then he should be able to play in the KHL on a regular basis this season or he is not even KHL ready yet, then the AHL is even worse as an option for him.
The big minutes fetish is quite hilarious though. Just like the other Na fetishes like the shots fetish. More minutes does not mean better development at this age. He was with a good org in the KHL, the one that developed him fpo a long time. The KHL does a great job developing young players and giving them the minutes THEY NEED to develop, not just MORE minutes.
The NA ice argument will probably live on for another 20 years. Impressive in the age of the internet.
I can only hope this won't be another impressive AHL career for a russian prospect.
JohnLennon
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- Mar 26, 2011
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At this point, given the language you're using and arguments you're putting forth, you clearly have some kind of vendetta against Denisenko as a prospect. I am just a neutral observer, neither a fan of the Panthers nor the prospect in particular. Who cares about how people labeled him years ago? We can evaluate the player on what we know now.
1. You make the argument that if he can't get good minutes in the KHL, then the AHL is a worse option for him. Yet in the post before this one, you said the AHL is an inferior league. So by that logic, not playing big minutes in a better league should mean he CAN play more minutes in a worse league. Hence why AHL could make sense for him, and is definitely not, as you said "an even worse option".
2. Big minutes "fetish" is weird terminology for something that is widely regarded as an important aspect for a player's development by literally everyone involved in player development. I'm not sure your angle here at all to be honest... playing important minutes and bigger roles absolutely benefits the player's development. Please indicate proof on how this doesn't benefit a player.
3. NA ice is also an important part of development, and is one reason of many why you see some European prospects struggle to adapt in North America. It's absolutely a valid strategy in helping a young player develop for the NHL. Why else are you starting to see more European players developing in the AHL right before making the jump? Again, please show e proof on how this doesn't benefit a player.
4. Finally, and most importantly, you treat player development like it is one consistent formula, and totally disregard how each player has different paths. Different strategies work with different people. Claiming this Denisenko in the AHL is a bad idea because you think he needs to follow one strict path is incorrect. You are clearly rooting for Denisenko to fail and displaying a fundamental lack of understanding on player development.
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Oh now we are at language analysing?
Btw his name is Denisenko.1.You don't understand the argument, probably because you are all caught up in the more minutes=better development narrative. If he can't earn minutes in the KHL, then he can't play in the NHL. If he can't play in the NHL his only option in NA is the AHL, which is worse thn the KHL. Playing more minutes in a worse league won't help his develpment one bit. He could play 60 minutes per game in a beer league. If Denisenko is not ready yet to be a KHL regular, but already able to play in the league just like all players his age and in the same tier talent wise do, i.e. limited minutes, then the best option is to earn those minutes through development in the KHL rather than make it easy on himself and go to a worse league to score a lot of points in a lot on minutes.
Voronkov is 20 years old, just like Denisenko. Only he is a 4th rounder and Denisenko is a 15th OA pick. Voronkov is playing nearly 15 minutes a night in the KHL as compared to his 11 minutes in the previous season. He is developing just fine, he is earning his minutes. If Denisenko was considered that much better at draft day, then on which grounds would the claim stand that he would play limited minutes in the KHL this season? All I can see IRL is stupid kids and stupid parents making bad decisions and driving kids' development against the wall. I've seen a fair share of those parents and young players starting to claim that they aren't getting enough time in the KHL so they run off to NA... to become a Rubtsov at 22, a former first rounder who can barely do anything on KHL level, while his peers and younger players overtake him left and right while developing in Russia.
2.Widely regarded by everyone but the people who actually are responsible for development. That narrative is simplified and reiterated on the internet by the same analysts who made those weird claims about Denisenko and of course by fans. I on my part continue hearing from youth coaches they are more concerned about young players playing too many games nowadays as oposed to more practice and working on their flaws. It's not that simple. Game practice is important, but destroying a junior league while playing 20 minutes a night might even hinder development rather than playing 5 minutes in the KHL and practicing with an actual KHL team, it's coaching staff and learning from pros on the team.
3.Look up rink sizes in the KHL, then come back.
4.The opposite is the case. My opinion on Denisenko's development path is based on personal observation of his very personal development. Exactly Denisenko was a very raw prospect, far from ready to be KHL player in his own right(like some other highly regarded prospects at that age). He did not finish hockey school in Russia. For him making that jump at that point was premature to put it mildly. He needed at least two more years in Russia to mold into a pro.
And the "consistent formula" is based on empirical evidence. Russian forward prospects who develop in Russia even excede expectations at times and reach their potential mostly and become NHLers. On the other side of the spectrum are bunches and loads of highly regarded prospects, first round picks, who go to the CHL or AHL and fall behind(Rubtsov, Scherbak. Goldobin, Nichushkin, Yakupov, Grigorenko, Burmistrov). The AHL is a slightly better option than the CHL, so Denisenko at least is not joining the empirically worst group.
I am clearly rooting for Denisenko to succeed. That is why I think the AHL is the wrong option.
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
So basically KHL > AHL and Denisenko is ruined because he didn't stay in KHL....
Riveting stuff.
Is he ruined? That's what you say. I never said that. I said that it is the worse path for development.
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
You have no way of knowing this.
I dont think any FLA fan is expecting a top 15 forward/superstar but we hope he becomes a solid offensive, complimentary top 6 winger.
There is no way of knowing anything if we shove it into the philosophical discusssion. I said it numerous times. It is my opinion. I explained why I think that. Because empirical evidence overwhelmingly suggest that. Way beyond statistical aberrations. NONE of the players I listed in my previos post have reached what you hope for Denisenko, i.e. a top 6 role in the NHL. If Denisenko believes he is the one to beat the odds, that's his right. Only from watcing im develop I don't think that's a wise assumption to make.
Hope is nice. There are two problems. He can't be anything but a Top 6 forward. He is top 6 or useless. And again, I think that to reach that goal two more years in the KHL would have been perfect. He could have become a top6 forward in the KHL, which can be done on exactly his team in the KHL that is not loaded with superstars and relies on the scoring by comitee approach. Korshkov is one of the top scorers there while having half the points of the league leaders. They would gladly have a legit offensive threat on the roster.
bert
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- Nov 11, 2002
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Clearly, he also has 2 goals and an assist in 4 games getting prime minutes. Its the perfect situation for his development.
Its a bad take overall.
Boonk
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- Oct 10, 2017
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Lmfao what EmPiRiCaL evidence? Guy's literally 4 games into his NA career and has 3 points lol.
You're wrong again as usual.
Says a... guy who so bh that he goes on a personal crusade against my humble person and replies to my last post without reading what the whole talk was aboutLmfao what EmPiRiCaL evidence? Guy's literally 4 games into his NA career and has 3 points lol.
You're wrong again as usual.
Boonk
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I did, you posted something dumb about Denisenko coming to NA and stunting his development. Meanwhile the guy's has literally played 4 games and has 3 pts. But yep, he's totally ruined by your decree Atas!!Says a... guy who so bh that he goes on a personal crusade against my humble person and replies to my last post without reading what the whole talk was about
As ive said. Wrong again, as usual
No, you obviously didn't. And it is getting boring, because you can't even read a couple of posts, but have the urge to write something ignorant.I did, you posted something dumb about Denisenko coming to NA and stunting his development. Meanwhile the guy's has literally played 4 games and has 3 pts. But yep, he's totally ruined by your decree Atas!!
As ive said. Wrong again, as usual
Sometimes going to NA isn't that bad. Look at Korshkov. He was almost written off by Lokomotiv and its fans, and then he went to NA, and now, when he's back, he's much better, than he was.
Lokomotiv development system is overrated. Yeah, they produce a lot of top youngsters, but it seems those youngsters just never realize their potential. Name any star player developped by Loko? Gavrikov is probably the only one, and he became a star on SKA.
Michkov was right, when left that system.
Lokomotiv development system is overrated. Yeah, they produce a lot of top youngsters, but it seems those youngsters just never realize their potential. Name any star player developped by Loko? Gavrikov is probably the only one, and he became a star on SKA.
Michkov was right, when left that system.
Boonk
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Coaches Coroner
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Not against Denisenko, that poster is notoriously anti-Russians-going-to-NA. If a Russian player faulters in any capacity in NA, he'll be in their thread blaming the choice to go to NA or blaming the NA team/coach/system for ruining the players development, and lauding the supposed benefits of playing 8min a game in the KHL instead. He's a bit of a crusader on the subject.
Has good offensive potential but he has to get stronger and MUST play in top 6 role. If not, he will likely fail. With Quenneville, he's up against it. Teams in these situations should just trade these type of players for 2nd or 3rd line guys who fit their coach's plan. Otherwise you're just burning time and wasting their rookie contracts for nothing. But that is today's NHL. Playing 10 minutes or less with scrubs is shortsighted.
