Speculation: Loyalty

[Aashir]

He is the scapegoat for everything negative to do with the team why would he be loyal to a team or fanbase who was never loyal to him?

If, when Marner leaves it will be because he was treated poorly

if you are going to sit there and say the team hasn't supported marner through it all then I suggest looking at this link to a great post by @Tak7 it's post #5734 on page 230 in the marner thread.

Two sides to every coin, etc. Let's take the emotion out of it and look at it rationally:

• Knowing they'd be bad, protected Marner by sending him back to London for D+1 - hard to argue he, and the team, didn't benefit immensely from it.
• Sided with the player during the Babcock situation. Fired Babcock. Hired a player's coach in Keefe.
• Publicly backed the player at every possibility.
• Publicly walked back anything perceived as the slightest form of criticism of the player
• Recruited John Tavares by offering him the chance to play alongside Marner, but then moved Marner back with Matthews once Marner requested it after year 1 of Tavares (where JT scored a career high 47 goals)
• Watched him hold out for a massive above market value deal that prioritized all of Mitch's wants, and none of the team's needs.
• Gave Marner the money he wanted on his 2019 deal.
• Gave Marner the term he wanted on his 2019 deal.
• Gave Marner the full trade protection he wanted on his 2019 deal.
• Shrugged off the contentious nature of the negotiations in 2019 by backing the player publicly.
• Refused to trade him in 2021, 2022, or 2023, and undercutting the trade protection that had yet to kick in
• Hired a new coach in 2024, whose first official task was to not meet with the captain, but Mitch Marner.
• Refused to go to him asking for him to waive the trade protection despite it clearly not working out here.
• Offered him 8x $13.5
• Only approached him about waiving for Rantanen after it became apparent a new deal couldn't be reached, and that his camp refused to engage all season.
• When the player got upset that the team went public with the Rantanen trade, the GM came out less than 24 hours later and, again, publicly supported the player.
• Have refused to publicly make him a scapegoat despite the constant failings.
• Have refused to publicly single him out despite him being the worst of the core 4 players late in series (0 goals in 18 playoff game 5/6/7s combined).

I have no issue with Marner choosing to leave. Whether he wants to leave for more money, or a better chance to win, or because he simply doesn't like the pressure or criticism of Toronto? Fair play to him. He's earned that right.

But can we please stop with this ridiculous pretending that this guy is being driven out of town? They wanted resign him all year, and there's still a number of fans, such as yourself, who put player before team despite the player not doing anything to warrant it.

The organization has given him absolutely everything he has asked for, and then some. He's repaid them by failing to perform on the ice, and by acting entitled & defensive off of it.

Get a grip.

The team bent over backwards for marner at every turn and at every decision he was thought about and even when he failed it was slid under the rug.

the fans did nothing but support him on the ice until game 7 of 2025 where he no showed yet again.

Marner fans, and the player/group around him keep deflecting and bringing up Matthews, Nylander and others but that doesn't actually address or combat the point about marners shortcomings and flaws as a player.

if/when marner leaves, it will be because he performed horribly when it mattered most and he can't handle playing in toronto.

edit: saved you the time and just pasted it in here.

 

[centipede2233]

If you see Chicago, pittsburgh, Tampa and even Florida models, you win cups when your stars are either on their ELC (like Chicago in Kane and Toews last ELC year with Keith being a 1.4 mil caphit) or on their second (rfa) contract, see also Kane and Toews, MacKinnon and makar, Sid and geno etc etc. that way when the cap continually rises in about year 7-8 of those Rfa deals is when you strike gold as now those caphit s to your stars are much more managable. What dubas did was give marner and matthews ufa contracts in their rfa years. And only at 5 and 6 year durations. And on top of it, and the final nail in the coffin, COVID created a flat cap scenario.

I hear the argument that “oh there was nothing we could do, how are we suppose to predict COVID”. My response, Maybe after your pathetic embarrassing losses to Columbus and Montreal you should pivot and trade marner and actually have a third line!

 

[centipede2233]

What happens when a parent spoils a child. The child becomes entitled and wants more and more and more. This is exactly what happened in Toronto. Weak leadership created this mess. I hope I never see shanahn in another front office role ever again. It is infuriating that a moron got to be president for 11 years, Brian Burke with experience and a law degree was fired as president after 4 years..

 

[centipede2233]

The Leafs really do need to convince him to move on and waive his NMC as they need to replace him with a different style player and one that can QB the PP like an Aaron Ekblad as a UFA for example.

Unfortunately I think it’s been reported he is not waiving it. That’s another mistake. Should have moved off of him, but dubas likes his players butter soft so he resigned him with a NMC. Lots of present left behind by the shanahan and dubas era.

 

[centipede2233]

I would say the #1 reason imho why marner wants to leave is he can’t take the criticism. He is entitled, has a massive ego, and does not take responsibility. The backlash, and rightfully so, by fans and media his ego just can’t take it. I have some advice, your ego is not your amigo!

 

[Seras]

'Scapegoat' implies taking blame for others while innocent himself. I don't think that applies to the player who was the most overpaid and the worst (relative) playoff performer while also the worst at being interviewed.

Subjective
False
Not hockey

 

[Seras]

Maybe if he (and Paul) hadn't held out for every penny and actually gave a damn when it matters most, he wouldn't be the scapegoat.

The NHL salary cap is horrible and blaming all the players for wanting to get paid is assinine.

Only an idiot takes less than he is worth, I prefer not having dumb players

 

[MCR74]

The NHL salary cap is horrible and blaming all the players for wanting to get paid is assinine.

Only an idiot takes less than he is worth, I prefer not having dumb players.

LMAO! Oh man...

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Weak leadership created this mess. I hope I never see shanahn in another front office role ever again

Shanahan was a total disaster.

The guy is clueless.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Can you name a Toronto player that has been treated worse by the fans? Has anyone had their home vandalized? Anyone else had a gun pointed at them?

We probably can't because we're in the age of 24/7 media (social or otherwise), but scapegoating a great hockey player is part of Toronto's DNA. Larry Murphy is the first one I remember. Dude was a sure fire first ballot hall of famer, about to win two more cups to go along with the two he already had, and we booed him right out of town. I don't know we've seen anyone of that talent level since that until Mitch, but we've seen lots of scapegoats in between. And guess what? None of them being gone was the thing that made us win.

Anyone who suggests Marner leaving doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated is wildly off base and/or trolling these parts. It certainly is. Him (or his people) have never said that either. All this talk about controlling the narrative is relatively humorous, the only ones doing that are the fans and media. The team and player haven't said anything but good things.

Dude is exercising his right to check out what else is out there and anyone blaming him for that is just mad that he likely won't be here to blame next year.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

We probably can't because we're in the age of 24/7 media (social or otherwise), but scapegoating a great hockey player is part of Toronto's DNA. Larry Murphy is the first one I remember. Dude was a sure fire first ballot hall of famer, about to win two more cups to go along with the two he already had, and we booed him right out of town. I don't know we've seen anyone of that talent level since that until Mitch, but we've seen lots of scapegoats in between. And guess what? None of them being gone was the thing that made us win.

Anyone who suggests Marner leaving doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated is wildly off base and/or trolling these parts. It certainly is. Him (or his people) have never said that either. All this talk about controlling the narrative is relatively humorous, the only ones doing that are the fans and media. The team and player haven't said anything but good things.

Dude is exercising his right to check out what else is out there and anyone blaming him for that is just mad that he likely won't be here to blame next year.

Poor Mitch!

Who cares. We aren’t winning anything with him here.

But sure go ahead and pay him 14x8. I’m sure that will put us over the top.

 

[MCR74]

Poor Mitch!

Who cares. We aren’t winning anything with him here.

But sure go ahead and pay him 14x8. I’m sure that will put us over the top.

It would put us over the top alright.

I can't wait for some idiot GM to give him a 3-4 year $15M deal. When playoff time rolls around and Marner disappears as usual, I'm sure the narrative will be completely different.

 

[bodechek]

The only loyalty comes from the fan base. The organization and players treat it as a business. What the Leafs really need are hungry players that will do what it takes to win the Stanley Cup. They are out there, Leafs need to break the stigma of what bias that players have against the Leafs to get them to come here and win.

 

[Tak7]

if you are going to sit there and say the team hasn't supported marner through it all then I suggest looking at this link to a great post by @Tak7 it's post #5734 on page 230 in the marner thread.

Thank you for this - very kind of you to say.

Marner fans, and the player/group around him keep deflecting and bringing up Matthews, Nylander and others but that doesn't actually address or combat the point about marners shortcomings and flaws as a player.

Their behavior has become borderline bizarre the last few weeks - I can't wrap my head around being so profusely defensive of a player that has continuously disrespected and shown animosity towards the fans.

if/when marner leaves, it will be because he performed horribly when it mattered most and he can't handle playing in toronto.

Only pushback I'll offer is here - it wasn't because he performed horribly when it mattered, but because he himself didn't want to be a Leaf any longer.

The Leafs gave him the 8x$13.5m offer, and tried engaging with him throughout. We heard reports last week that they were still trying to have conversations with the Marner camp, who refused to talk.

The Leafs wanted him to stay.

 

[IPS]

You act like the guys who jacked his car were fans of the team who knew it was Marner and targeted him for his poor play instead of it being some random car jacking of his $200,000 Range Rover like it really was.

Doesn't sound quite as hyperbolic and narrative driven as he wants it to be though..

Poor Mitch just needs to be the victim of everything Leafs related to these folks.

And oh no the horrible death threats too! Totally not something that every random semi-popular youtuber gets too.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Poor Mitch!

Who cares. We aren’t winning anything with him here.

But sure go ahead and pay him 14x8. I’m sure that will put us over the top.

Case in point right here. I said nothing about poor Mitch or any of the plethora of players before him that faced the same scapegoating, only that this isn't new. Marner hasn't complained about this publicly and neither has his agent, we just have every reporter in the hockey world trying to get any whisper they can about any summer move and the fans (and trolls) are lapping it up.

So many "fans" of this team are batshit crazy. His wife can't walk their dog, his house has been vandalized, his weeks old kid's life has been threatened, he hasn't said anything about any of that publicly and people be all like "poor baby Mitch is whining and can't take the heat." That's not heat, that's insanity and blaming him for this being a factor in his decision says far more about the fan base than it does about him.

 

[MCR74]

The Leafs gave him the 8x$13.5m offer, and tried engaging with him throughout. We heard reports last week that they were still trying to have conversations with the Marner camp, who refused to talk.

The Leafs wanted him to stay.

lf $108M isn't enough for Marner, he can go f*** himself. We and the team deserve better.

 

[Aashir]

Their behavior has become borderline bizarre the last few weeks - I can't wrap my head around being so profusely defensive of a player that has continuously disrespected and shown animosity towards the fans.

Exactly, and it’s not like he turns it on in the playoffs either. If he was producing and showing improvement over the course of his time in the playoffs at least that argument could be made, but he doesn’t. That doesn’t mean the other 3 are exempt from this either, but when talking about specifically Marner, a star forward should never have a series where they shoot nearly 1 shot/game. That’s been Marner for the past 3 series’s, I don’t know what’s happened to him the past little bit, but he’s too fixated on finding the pass to even shoot.

The problem is you can’t discuss Marner specifically because that apparently looks like an attack on him, what he stands for, and what he wants to become.

Only pushback I'll offer is here - it wasn't because he performed horribly when it mattered, but because he himself didn't want to be a Leaf any longer.

The Leafs gave him the 8x$13.5m offer, and tried engaging with him throughout. We heard reports last week that they were still trying to have conversations with the Marner camp, who refused to talk.

The Leafs wanted him to stay.

Yes that’s true, what I said was mostly just a guess as to why he doesn’t want to be a leaf. Who wants to lose every single year and be blamed for it, he could go to a Vegas or florida somehow and win, even if it means taking a pay cut.

whatever it is, it’s clear as day the reason is not being run out of town cuz we offered him a pretty lucrative given the past futility so I find it funny that the point used is the city/fans/org turned on him when all that’s been done is support him, his weird antics and his disappointing play.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Subjective
False
Not hockey

Dubas doesn't work here anymore (thankfully). You should head over to the Penguins site, where he's on his second hatchet job.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The NHL salary cap is horrible and blaming all the players for wanting to get paid is assinine.

Only an idiot takes less than he is worth, I prefer not having dumb players

People aren't blaming players for wanting to get paid what they are worth.

People are blaming Dubas for paying players more than they were worth, and thereby handicapping the team.

 

[MCR74]

People aren't blaming players for wanting to get paid what they are worth.

People are blaming Dubas for paying players more than they were worth, and thereby handicapping the team.

Dubas set the team back. They have to start undoing the damage somehow.

 

[Tak7]

The NHL salary cap is horrible and blaming all the players for wanting to get paid is assinine.

Only an idiot takes less than he is worth, I prefer not having dumb players

Every team in the league operates under the same cap.

There's only one way to win in a hard cap era - by making sure you take market value, and therefore leave enough on the table to bolster the roster around you.

It's cool if you want to get what's yours - that's a player's right. But if you prioritize your bank account over the well being of the team, you're going to open yourself up to a hell of a lot of criticism: especially if performances aren't commensurate to your pay

 

[MCR74]

Every team in the league operates under the same cap.

There's only one way to win in a hard cap era - by making sure you take market value, and therefore leave enough on the table to bolster the roster around you.

It's cool if you want to get what's yours - that's a player's right. But if you prioritize your bank account over the well being of the team, you're going to open yourself up to a hell of a lot of criticism: especially if performances aren't commensurate to your pay

I get the impression Marner doesn't give a damn whether he ever wins a cup or not.

 

[Tak7]

I get the impression Marner doesn't give a damn whether he ever wins a cup or not.

My personal belief is that he/his people are motivated by income/earnings - it's why the Schedule B bonuses was such an issue, and its why he held out for a 6 year deal that would take him to free agency in his prime, and why I wouldn't be surprised at all if he signed a shorter term deal in the next few weeks.

 

[MCR74]

My personal belief is that he/his people are motivated by income/earnings - it's why the Schedule B bonuses was such an issue, and its why he held out for a 6 year deal that would take him to free agency in his prime, and why I wouldn't be surprised at all if he signed a shorter term deal in the next few weeks.

Somewhere along the way the "I'm a proud Toronto boy" routine clashed with mega millions. I hope he gets near league max and rots. It might not take long for fans to sour on him again. At least it won't be us.