OT: Los Angeles Angels Talk

[Hockey Duckie]

He has a pretty big fan club.

Yup. I'm a fan of a winning program, which you obviously don't support. OBVIOUSLY, since you love being under .500 for the past five seasons.

With a new GM, Minasian, he gets a two-year window from me. He was able to convince owner Moreno to dump Pujols, giving more DH time to Ohtani as well as giving 1B to Walsh.

2021 WAR (baseball reference)

Pujols: -0.7
Walsh: 1.9
Ohtani: 5.1 (1.6 pitching WAR)​

Although Pujols was on his last year of the contract, I was quite surprised Minasian was able to jettison Pujols. With Pujols' money set to be made available next off-season, $30 mil, let's see what Minasian can do to shore up some pitching. Also could trade some high end positional prospects for high end prospect pitchers.

 

[Deuce22]

The point of history is to also let someone know that it isn't amazing to see the Ducks falter with superstars. While it may be new to that person, it is not a new idea because, as you stated, we still have the same owner who pursues hitting over a balanced team. Not everyone can be all high and mighty like you to assume everyone knows this especially when a fellow poster thinks it's wild this year alone.

Scope... it matters... like history.

You are better at making unsubstantiated accusations than you are at analogy. The Angel and Duck ownership have nothing in common. Ducks don't overpay for superstars, Angels do. Duck ownership is hands off, Arte hands on to a fault. Me high and mighty, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

A winning program ? Lol.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

You are better at making unsubstantiated accusations than you are at analogy. The Angel and Duck ownership have nothing in common. Ducks don't overpay for superstars, Angels do. Duck ownership is hands off, Arte hands on to a fault. Me high and mighty, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

WTF are you talking? :::: quick read of what I typed in this Angel sub thread :::

Ohhh... my bad, I meant "Angels Superstar"... hahhahahahhahahah How TF do you get that analogy???

Here's how this particular thread started:

Both Trout and Ohtani were voted to the all star team. Kinda wild that we have two of the best players in baseball and are in the bottom of the league.

But yes, you love the look of your own texts. You also don't know sh*t about me. At least @Anaheim4ever knows I know the difference between the Ducks and Angels such that the Ducks front office I do favor so much more than the Angels' front office (love Samueli's and GM Murray; dislike Moreno and GM Eppler). This is how you type all high and mighty. Shoo foolish being who knows little of continuity and personalities. You're nothing on this Angels board.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

A winning program ? Lol.

Over .500 is a winning program. Winning the AL West is a winning higher program. Can you tell me when was the last time the Angels finished above .500 again and who was the GM at the time? Google is your friend, mon ami.

Here, I'll help you: Angels record year by year

 

[TheGoodShepard1]

The Raisel Iglesias question fascinates me:

On one hand, he's been ridiculously good lately, you're still on the fringes of a playoff race, you've got a multi-year sample to tell you this is not a fluke and you've had absolutely no stability in the back end of your bullpen for god knows how long, so it's definitely tempting to hold and extend him, especially if Trout is coming back right after the All-Star break.

On the other hand, you're still on the fringes of the playoff race (i.e. you're there, but you still have to jump anywhere from 3-5 teams to get to the 2nd wild card), you're about to give Shohei a monster extension and have three guys tied up in the $30+ million per year range and can't really afford to give at or close to another eight-figure salary to a closer (especially one on the wrong side of 30, although that's not necessarily a deal-breaker for relievers), and you could be able to pull an A- prospect or a couple really solid guys in an overpayment if a contender is desperate for bullpen help (which most are).

Gonna be really interesting to see what Perry does. The six game home-and-home with Seattle before and after the break and the six at the end of the month with Oakland probably determines the direction they're heading in at the trade deadline

 

[Deuce22]

WTF are you talking? :::: quick read of what I typed in this Angel sub thread :::

Ohhh... my bad, I meant "Angels Superstar"... hahhahahahhahahah How TF do you get that analogy???

Here's how this particular thread started:

​

But yes, you love the look of your own texts. You also don't know sh*t about me. At least @Anaheim4ever knows I know the difference between the Ducks and Angels such that the Ducks front office I do favor so much more than the Angels' front office (love Samueli's and GM Murray; dislike Moreno and GM Eppler). This is how you type all high and mighty. Shoo foolish being who knows little of continuity and personalities. You're nothing on this Angels board.

Self-affirmation through constant putdowns of others isn't my thing. Good to know there is someone on the Angel board who knows it all.

 

[AngelDuck]

The Raisel Iglesias question fascinates me:

On one hand, he's been ridiculously good lately, you're still on the fringes of a playoff race, you've got a multi-year sample to tell you this is not a fluke and you've had absolutely no stability in the back end of your bullpen for god knows how long, so it's definitely tempting to hold and extend him, especially if Trout is coming back right after the All-Star break.

On the other hand, you're still on the fringes of the playoff race (i.e. you're there, but you still have to jump anywhere from 3-5 teams to get to the 2nd wild card), you're about to give Shohei a monster extension and have three guys tied up in the $30+ million per year range and can't really afford to give at or close to another eight-figure salary to a closer (especially one on the wrong side of 30, although that's not necessarily a deal-breaker for relievers), and you could be able to pull an A- prospect or a couple really solid guys in an overpayment if a contender is desperate for bullpen help (which most are).

Gonna be really interesting to see what Perry does. The six game home-and-home with Seattle before and after the break and the six at the end of the month with Oakland probably determines the direction they're heading in at the trade deadline

I think it’s doubtful they sell unless they’re 10+ games out of the playoffs. And I think that’s fair. You’ve got Ohtani having an epic season and Trout coming back for the 2nd half. Let them have a fair chance to do some damage I say

Hope you get lucky with some of the young arms

 

[MMC]

For the love of god just sell, this team isn’t winning shit this season yet again and I don’t want any of our pending UFAs back, sell them off and start building for next year.

And I would seriously be shocked if Shohei re-signed before this team makes the playoffs. I’m pretty sure he came to MLB with the desire to win and compete for the World Series.

Still waiting for any of those Eppler prospects I was assured the last 5 years were worth being dogshit for to pan out

 

[ducks8]

Here I am, just enjoying the season Ohtani and Walsh are having. It's awesome to see. Hopefully when Trout comes back, he can add to the entertainment for me

 

[Member 308457]

Hi. I'm an Angels fan since 1970. It was nice to see Pujols and his $250 million contract go, although I'm pretty sure the Angels still owe him a ton of money for the rest of his life. I thought the Angels would be done with the aging ballplayers with hundreds of millions of dollar contract but no...Anthony Rendon. I was looking him up and though I only follow casually now, I was shocked to see he's getting paid close to Albert money, about $250 million.

Now he's getting hurt over and over again. Old Indian Burial Ground curse? Maybe. Combined with stupidity and meddling of owner, yes. And the team is so top heavy with the salaries of its hitters, it's fundamental baseball to know that pitching wins games and championships.

Since the Angels mlb site stopped its message board, it's nice to know I can still communicate with other Angel fans. If Arte would only sell the team. He's terminal.

 

[terranraida]

Hi. I'm an Angels fan since 1970. It was nice to see Pujols and his $250 million contract go, although I'm pretty sure the Angels still owe him a ton of money for the rest of his life. I thought the Angels would be done with the aging ballplayers with hundreds of millions of dollar contract but no...Anthony Rendon. I was looking him up and though I only follow casually now, I was shocked to see he's getting paid close to Albert money, about $250 million.

Now he's getting hurt over and over again. Old Indian Burial Ground curse? Maybe. Combined with stupidity and meddling of owner, yes. And the team is so top heavy with the salaries of its hitters, it's fundamental baseball to know that pitching wins games and championships.

Since the Angels mlb site stopped its message board, it's nice to know I can still communicate with other Angel fans. If Arte would only sell the team. He's terminal.

It's kinda wild how weird things keep happening in Anaheim. Angels have went 7-3 in their last 10 and are now above 500 again and still 4th in the AL west. Ohtani is doing unprecedented levels of baseball, but then we lose Trout and Rendon, for what feels like at least half the season so far. Our pitching, outside Ohtani, has been abysmal despite making some OK moves in the off season

I think it's just a SoCal Curse, where you can get talent, but you can't ever touch a championship unless the stars align and the gods stop looking. Like with the Chargers.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Hi. I'm an Angels fan since 1970. It was nice to see Pujols and his $250 million contract go, although I'm pretty sure the Angels still owe him a ton of money for the rest of his life. I thought the Angels would be done with the aging ballplayers with hundreds of millions of dollar contract but no...Anthony Rendon. I was looking him up and though I only follow casually now, I was shocked to see he's getting paid close to Albert money, about $250 million.

Now he's getting hurt over and over again. Old Indian Burial Ground curse? Maybe. Combined with stupidity and meddling of owner, yes. And the team is so top heavy with the salaries of its hitters, it's fundamental baseball to know that pitching wins games and championships.

Since the Angels mlb site stopped its message board, it's nice to know I can still communicate with other Angel fans. If Arte would only sell the team. He's terminal.

Here is what Pujols and Rendon also have in common: both were part of WS winning teams in their contract season and its known that Arte Moreno really wanted Pujols after his 2011 WS performance and he filled the box of being Latino that Arte likes. Its long been known that Arte really likes Latino players ever since he bought the team.

As a Mexican American i'm kinda embarrassed the way Arte has run the Angels into the ground with his meddling.
When he inherited the team the GM was Bill Stoneman who had built the best farm system in the game and slowly the farm system degraded after Eddie Bane the scouting director was fired.
Stone had his faults but he had a winning product during his time such as the 2002 WS win, making the playoffs in 04, 05 and 07 including a playoff series win in 05.

I feel like they missed something with Rendon, looking at his history he's missed quite a lot of games over the years while in Washington (between 2017-2019 he failed to reach 150 games played)
and in his 3rd season in 2015 he played only 80 games.

 

[Member 308457]

Here is what Pujols and Rendon also have in common: both were part of WS winning teams in their contract season and its known that Arte Moreno really wanted Pujols after his 2011 WS performance and he filled the box of being Latino that Arte likes. Its long been known that Arte really likes Latino players ever since he bought the team.

As a Mexican American i'm kinda embarrassed the way Arte has run the Angels into the ground with his meddling.
When he inherited the team the GM was Bill Stoneman who had built the best farm system in the game and slowly the farm system degraded after Eddie Bane the scouting director was fired.
Stone had his faults but he had a winning product during his time such as the 2002 WS win, making the playoffs in 04, 05 and 07 including a playoff series win in 05.

I feel like they missed something with Rendon, looking at his history he's missed quite a lot of games over the years while in Washington (between 2017-2019 he failed to reach 150 games played) and in his 3rd season in 2015 he played only 80 games.

To say Moreno is the big kahuna and negates all his baseball management is an understatement. In Buffalo we have Terry and Kim Pegula who run the Sabres similarly. They fork out gobs of money (hockey money isn't what baseball money is but it's still big) for these expensive, aging free agents who are bordering 30 years of age. All of these guys haven't produced. And they throw crazy money at guys like Jeff Skinner, Kyle Okposo and others like Matt Moulson, Ville Leino and Christian Ehrhoff who failed a long time ago. Not to mention signing Eichel to an 8 year $80 million contract when it was clear to everyone that he wanted out a couple years ago.

Meddlesome owners. What can you say? They put franchises extremely out of balance and they wreck franchises. As a fan you can just helplessly look on. Maybe become a fan of a different team? I'm thinking about it. This is a double whammy for me.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

To say Moreno is the big kahuna and negates all his baseball management is an understatement. In Buffalo we have Terry and Kim Pegula who run the Sabres similarly. They fork out gobs of money (hockey money isn't what baseball money is but it's still big) for these expensive, aging free agents who are bordering 30 years of age. All of these guys haven't produced. And they throw crazy money at guys like Jeff Skinner, Kyle Okposo and others like Matt Moulson, Ville Leino and Christian Ehrhoff who failed a long time ago. Not to mention signing Eichel to an 8 year $80 million contract when it was clear to everyone that he wanted out a couple years ago.

Meddlesome owners. What can you say? They put franchises extremely out of balance and they wreck franchises. As a fan you can just helplessly look on. Maybe become a fan of a different team? I'm thinking about it. This is a double whammy for me.

Whats scarier about a meddling owner in NHL is that there is the salary cap while in MLB the owner can just deal with the luxury tax if they chose to.
I feel like the meddling owners that it is a control issue where they doubt the people running it and think they can do better and can't control the urge to override them.

 

[Member 308457]

I feel like the meddling owners that it is a control issue where they doubt the people running it and think they can do better and can't control the urge to override them.

Great post.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

If Scioscia was still coach would we have seen Walsh sitting on the bench for Pujols and the GM being forced to cut Pujols sooner because of Scioscia having a bad case of Veteranitis ?
Maddon has done a terrific job with Walsh, Scioscia would have favored a veteran like Pujols despite Walsh playing 1000% better.

 

[terranraida]

Managers be damned, we have a good opportunity this weekend to leapfrog the Mariners, which if all goes well puts the giants in striking distance shortly thereafter.

Do we have a better timetable of when Trout is able to return besides "after the allstar break"?

 

[TheGoodShepard1]

20 draft picks...20 pitchers. Not only that, 19 of the 20 were college pitchers, the only one that wasn't was a relatively high-regarded prep arm they took in the 12th round and may have to go slightly overslot to sign (>$125K for anyone drafted after the 10th round counts against your pool).

Perry Minasian, ladies and gentlemen

 

[GreatBear]

I can understand the Angels drafting for pitching, given the current Angel's staff. 20 out of 2o as pitchers may be going a bit overboard, particularly if they sign them all. I am not certain that they have enough space in their minor league system for 20 new pitchers. On the other hand, if they can get four of these 20 to make it to the majors they will have had a successful draft.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I can understand the Angels drafting for pitching, given the current Angel's staff. 20 out of 2o as pitchers may be going a bit overboard, particularly if they sign them all. I am not certain that they have enough space in their minor league system for 20 new pitchers. On the other hand, if they can get four of these 20 to make it to the majors they will have had a successful draft.

The 2009 Angels draft had a ton of hits on pitching: Richards, Skaggs, Corbin. Just 2 of the 3 had bad luck
Then add that Trout was picked that year and Grichuck is still in the majors.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

The first two pitchers are college pitchers who have the possibility of seeing time with the big club as relievers to start off their careers if the Angels are still in the hunt. Their upside is being a part of the starting rotation.

As for 20 pitchers with their first 20 selections, it's GM Minasian's way of trying to stock the barren pitching corps. We need starters, middle relief, and closers. By going via the draft, it appears Minasian is trying to avoid trading prospects and picking up FA relievers. I'm not going to complain because it's very much needed infusion of pitching talent.

When Dipoto got hired by the Angels in October of 2011 as GM, he denoted how the Angels were lacking pitching talent in their system. He tried to put a bandage on the problem by trading for ace pitcher Greinke, with hopes that owner Moreno would re-sign Greinke. Back then, if you tried to sign a qualified FA, then your team would lose it's first round pick and trading for Greinke in-season would avoid that. Unfortunately in the 2012 off-season, Moreno went after another qualified FA slugger a second off-season in a row in OF Hamilton than trying to retain P Greinke. And for the second season in a row, the Angels would be without a first round pick under Dipoto because Moreno wants sluggers. Dipoto was undercut in 2012 off-season and had to scramble to find pitchers. It was the only year in Dipoto's four year tenure with the Angels that the Angels gave up over 700 Runs Allowed. The following off-season, Dipoto started trading off position players for young pitchers to get around owner Moreno's meddling and fiscal constraints.

Angels
Year	GM	PCT	Run Scored	Runs Allowed	Diff
2012	DiPoto	0.549	767	699	68
2013	DiPoto	0.481	733	737	-4
2014	DiPoto	0.605	773	630	143	AL West Champs
2015	DiPoto	0.525	661	675	-14
.
2016	Eppler	0.457	717	727	-10
2017	Eppler	0.494	710	709	1
2018	Eppler	0.494	721	722	-1
2019	Eppler	0.444	769	868	-99
2020	Eppler	0.433	294	321	-27
	Projected	on 162 games	794	867	-73
.
2021	Minasian	0.506	435	461	-26	As of 7/14/2021
	Projected	on 162 games	792	831	-39

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

​

In Minasian's first half year with the Angels, that pitching corps is abysmal with their RA total. They are 9th in Runs Scored in the league, but 26th out of 30 teams in Runs Allowed. In the 2020-21 off-season, the Angels went after hitting again with 3B Rendon, but didn't spend much on top end pitching. With a projected 831 RA this season at the All-Star break, drafting 20 pitchers with the first 20 selections seems warranted. This is Minasian's way of addressing the pitching (college arms) rather than trading for them like Dipoto.

I was surprised Minasian was able to convince owner Moreno to DFA and release Pujols in order to see what he's got in young sluggers in Ohtani (DH), Walsh (1B), and Ward (1B, RF). This is Pujols' last season under contract with the Angels. Has it really been a decade already?! That means $30 mil is available this coming off-season for a pitcher. The following off-season in 2022, OF Upton's contract comes off the books as he's being paid $28 mil in 2022, but that money plus is probably slated for Ohtani to be re-signed.

Current pitching help in the system close to MLB level are LHP Naughton (AAA) and LHP Detmers (AA). That's it.

Year	GM	1st rd pick	Player	Comment
2012	Dipoto	none	None	lost due FA 1B Pujols signing
2013	Dipoto	none	None	lost due FA OF Hamilton signing
2014	Dipoto	15th	LHP Newcomb	Traded in 2016 for SS Simmons
2015	Dipoto	25th	C Ward
.
2016	Eppler	16th	C Thaiss
2017	Eppler	10th	OF Adell
2018	Eppler	17th	OF Adams
2019	Eppler	15th	SS Wilson	Traded away for Salary Dump
2020	Eppler	10th	LHP Detmers
.
2021	Minasian	9th	RHP Bachman

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Usually, it's your first round picks that gives an organization a big boost in talent.
​

Back in 2012, Dipoto noted the organization was lacking pitching talent in the system and at the MLB level. He traded for a lot of young pitchers at AAA or AAA+ levels. Under Eppler, a lot of pitchers were traded out for positional players, but failed to address pitching long term for the organization via the draft, trade, or top-end FA signing. Ohtani was a great sweepstakes get and Eppler deserves a lot of credit for that because of his tenure as a scout for the Yankees when he saw Ohtani in Japan. And yet, in Eppler's five year tenure, he finally drafted a pitcher in the first round in his last year serving as GM. Welp, the draft isn't on owner Moreno and Eppler deserves a lot of blame for the lack of pitching in the system. Trading away SS Wilson as a part of a salary dump is the worst and the Angels could have drafted one of four pitchers in Rutledge, Priester, Thompson, or Kirby.

Anyhow, 20 pitchers with the first 20 picks sure is sending a message and I like it. I dunno if the Angels can sign all 20 pitchers, but it's a move in the right direction into the future and finally get our Runs Allowed under 700 in a regular season!

 

[Bender66]

I don't know who Darron Sutton pissed off in management to get canned half way through the season, but he always reminded me of Pierre McGuirre. He was so eager for approval that it bordered on annoying/creepy. Like dude, i don't care where someone played junior mite little league at El Dorado middle school 20 yrs ago. Just call the damn play by play you creepy dude.

Angels are pretty much the Sens of MLB.
0 days since last incident.

 

[Steppin Razor]

I don't know who Darron Sutton pissed off in management to get canned half way through the season, but he always reminded me of Pierre McGuirre. He was so eager for approval that it bordered on annoying/creepy. Like dude, i don't care where someone played junior mite little league at El Dorado middle school 20 yrs ago. Just call the damn play by play you creepy dude.

Angels are pretty much the Sens of MLB.
0 days since last incident.

I'd argue the Angels are more like the Oilers of MLB. Blessed with a generational talent (two, now arguably) and yet they constantly embarrass themselves. An absolute disgrace most years.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I'd argue the Angels are more like the Oilers of MLB. Blessed with a generational talent (two, now arguably) and yet they constantly embarrass themselves. An absolute disgrace most years.

McDavid = Mike Trout. Draisaitl = Ohtani.