Confirmed with Link: Logan Stanley 2 years 1.25 million

[BobTheSolarsystem]

So again, why is his GF% higher than other D men on the team if they all play in front of the same goalie? Helle is a constant

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The disparity isn't just between xGF and GF and GA and xGA. There's also a disparity between CF% and HDCF% - meaning that he bleeds shots, but not high danger ones. In fact, his HDSAA/60 is the exact same as Pionk, and ballpark to most of the rest of the D

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Who knows, maybe @DRW204 has me on his ignore list too lol... but this is just another example of someone trying to fit the data to their opinin instead of the other way around (which is the way it's supposed to be done)

These stats actually are very telling... there are three consisten pairings and one pairing plays highly sheltered minutes...

So rather than a lump comparison - compare miller and stan - as they are partners

These charts just tell us that stan sucks and pionk is a high risk D... we all knew that. But pionk gives up high danger chances in tough match ups while stan gifts them.

Then samberg jomo and demelo are comparable while miller is better than his ice time.

 

[Cotton Eye Joe]

These stats actually are very telling... there are three consisten pairings and one pairing plays highly sheltered minutes...

So rather than a lump comparison - compare miller and stan - as they are partners

These charts just tell us that stan sucks and pionk is a high risk D... we all knew that. But pionk gives up high danger chances in tough match ups while stan gifts them.

Then samberg jomo and demelo are comparable while miller is better than his ice time.

That all compares exactly with my eye test.
Miller is our 6D with whoever we hopefully bring in as a 5D.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He hasn’t made the glaring mistake and turnover recently but it feels like it’s only a moment away. And not just a minor giveaway but a colossal blunder that results in a goal against at the most inopportune time.

He made an almost unbelievable giveaway on Tuesday. 2 things saved him, Comrie and the fact that 2 other players had already made similar gaffes and also got away with them.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The low goals against/astronomical on-ice SV% stick out like a sore thumb. Everywhere else his shot metrics and analytics are meh to terrible but he's hardly ever out there for a goal against.

Arniel (or whoever is sending the defensive pairs over the boards) tries to keep him sheltered from elite competition...but he does get a lot of d zone starts, so it's not the easiest assignment possible.

I think Stanley has improved - a little - since the early season. He is still not good.

3rd pair is supposed to be sheltered from elite competition. If they could handle it they would be first pair.

 

[ps241]

I have watched off and on a bit lately. I don’t hate his game but he is still a #7-#6 NHL type IMO. Organization wants him in the line up for his size and so what are we gonna do? I give him about as much attention as any other sheltered bottom pairing guy (Fluery, Heiny, Stan, Miller to a lesser extent). Only place I don’t like him is on the PK, other than that he is serviceable but a replacement level dime a dozen type. This coaching staff have earned my trust so I’ll give them a pass.

Not worth allot of my band width to worry about.

 

[Gm0ney]

I have watched off and on a bit lately. I don’t hate his game but he is still a #7-#6 NHL type IMO. Organization wants him in the line up for his size and so what are we gonna do? I give him about as much attention as any other sheltered bottom pairing guy (Fluery, Heiny, Stan, Miller to a lesser extent). Only place I don’t like him is on the PK, other than that he is serviceable but a replacement level dime a dozen type. This coaching staff have earned my trust so I’ll give them a pass.

Not worth allot of my band width to worry about.

I tried to warn @DeepFrickinValue not to ask!

It's just a contentious issue. Anytime someone suggests the org is doing something wrong there's a lot of debate, but things are going well right now, and the continuing Stanley Project is one of the few hot button issues.

It's also a mystery - why are the Jets still trying so hard to make Stanley happen? It seems like it's more than just wanting size in the lineup (especially since Stanley doesn't really use his size to crush our enemies, see them driven before him, and to hear the lamentations of their women).

Since it's been an issue for, well since the 2016 draft, it feels like everything's being constantly relitigated, which is kind of a drag - but stubbornness doesn't just apply to the Jets in this case...

 

[Jet]

Stanley's been getting an absolutely wild on-ice SV%...like .985 or .990 at 5v5. It doesn't seem likely to continue forever. If he was getting the kind of SV% Pavelec used to regularly provide Winnipeggers would be flipping over streetcars like it was 1919.

Maybe that has to do with the type of shots he allows? The mental gymnastics around here to try and prove Stan is bad is hilarious. Again, every player plays in front of the same Hellebuyck, and the longer these stats hold up the more they cannot be ignored.

 

[Buffdog]

Maybe that has to do with the type of shots he allows? The mental gymnastics around here to try and prove Stan is bad is hilarious. Again, every player plays in front of the same Hellebuyck, and the longer these stats hold up the more they cannot be ignored.

No, Stan's GF% is better because when Stan steps on the ice, Helle notices and plays better for those 45 seconds, then starts playing at a lower level when he gets off the ice

I think that's what these people are suggesting? You'd think for a bunch of posters who fancy themselves as intelligent (to a point of mocking and deriding those who disagree with them), they'd understand what constants and variables are when making comparisons

There's a reason they've all blocked me. They don't like it when I point things like this out

 

[Whileee]

Maybe that has to do with the type of shots he allows? The mental gymnastics around here to try and prove Stan is bad is hilarious. Again, every player plays in front of the same Hellebuyck, and the longer these stats hold up the more they cannot be ignored.

Stanley's game has solidified somewhat to my eyes over the past several weeks. It's better to have him on the left side with Miller.

He does get sheltered from opponents' best players as much as Arniel can. It's not just who's playing behind you, it's also who you're facing that influences your on ice metrics.

One other note: I think Arniel and the Jets decided that they couldn't expect a D to develop into a solid top 6 role without staying in the lineup for an extended period of time, without yo-yoing in and out of the press box. I agree with that general premise. The Jets decided that they'd run with Stanley rather than Heinola for that opportunity. Time will tell if that was the right choice.

 

[JetsFan815]

Maybe that has to do with the type of shots he allows? The mental gymnastics around here to try and prove Stan is bad is hilarious. Again, every player plays in front of the same Hellebuyck, and the longer these stats hold up the more they cannot be ignored.

Ville Heinola has an even better save % behind him at almost 98%, #1 in the league. Is Ville a closet defensive prodigy as well by that line of thinking?

 

[DRW204]

Stanley's game has solidified somewhat to my eyes over the past several weeks. It's better to have him on the left side with Miller.

He does get sheltered from opponents' best players as much as Arniel can. It's not just who's playing behind you, it's also who you're facing that influences your on ice metrics.

One other note: I think Arniel and the Jets decided that they couldn't expect a D to develop into a solid top 6 role without staying in the lineup for an extended period of time, without yo-yoing in and out of the press box. I agree with that general premise. The Jets decided that they'd run with Stanley rather than Heinola for that opportunity. Time will tell if that was the right choice.

Generational goalie + playing against bottom of the depth chart fwds = likely high on ice sv% (which leads to low GA).
Not trying to get into to much is Stanley good or bad, but really disagree with solely using GF% and other GF vs GA stats without further context as a single evaluator for a non-elite Dman.

 

[Jet]

No, Stan's GF% is better because when Stan steps on the ice, Helle notices and plays better for those 45 seconds, then starts playing at a lower level when he gets off the ice

I think that's what these people are suggesting? You'd think for a bunch of posters who fancy themselves as intelligent (to a point of mocking and deriding those who disagree with them), they'd understand what a constants and variables are when making comparisons

There's a reason they've all blocked me. They don't like it when I point things like this out

I also love when they give people who say anything complimentary about Stanley cute nicknames like we're in love with the guy.

Of these groups, only one is being realistic. I don't think ANYONE on this forum is saying Stanley is a great defenseman (if you are, raise your hand). All you and I (and a handful of others) is stating is that Stanley has shown to be a capable (albeit) flawed 6-7 guy. That seems pretty objectively true based on metrics, eye test and how the organization views and uses him.

 

[surixon]

I'm just not bothering to complain about him. The org is clearly determined to make it work with Logan so hopefully he continues his solid play and even improves as it will be better for the team if he does.

 

[Jet]

Stanley's game has solidified somewhat to my eyes over the past several weeks. It's better to have him on the left side with Miller.

He does get sheltered from opponents' best players as much as Arniel can. It's not just who's playing behind you, it's also who you're facing that influences your on ice metrics.

One other note: I think Arniel and the Jets decided that they couldn't expect a D to develop into a solid top 6 role without staying in the lineup for an extended period of time, without yo-yoing in and out of the press box. I agree with that general premise. The Jets decided that they'd run with Stanley rather than Heinola for that opportunity. Time will tell if that was the right choice.

See? This is a great assessment and totaly fair. Between you and I, I'd rather have had Ville get a nice run of games, especially since his last 3ish games before he was relegated to the PB I thought he was really starting to do some of the things that have made him an interesting prospect.

However, the org wanted to run with Stanley - I'm sure with eyes on the playoffs, so I will Stan with him

 

[Buffdog]

I also love when they give people who say anything complimentary about Stanley cute nicknames like we're in love with the guy.

Of these groups, only one is being realistic. I don't think ANYONE on this forum is saying Stanley is a great defenseman (if you are, raise your hand). All you and I (and a handful of others) is stating is that Stanley has shown to be a capable (albeit) flawed 6-7 guy. That seems pretty objectively true based on metrics, eye test and how the organization views and uses him.

Exactly. Nobody is suggesting he plays in the top 4, and I've been consistent in saying that they should upgrade 3LD if they want to contend

 

[Gm0ney]

Maybe that has to do with the type of shots he allows? The mental gymnastics around here to try and prove Stan is bad is hilarious. Again, every player plays in front of the same Hellebuyck, and the line these stats hold up the more they cannot be ignored.

If Stan's doing *something* (that we can't detect with our eyes or in any stat) to boost Hellebuyck's SV% at 5v5, why does that effect not carry over to the PK where he's got the worst on-ice SV% of any Jet defender and 9th worst in the league?

The "type of shots he allows" are stats (somewhat and maybe imperfectly) captured by xGA, SCA and HDCA and he is 6th, 5th and 6th out of 6 on the Jets this year at 5v5 per 60 minutes...all vs. soft competition.

The only mental gymnastics going on are with the people who watch Stanley bumbling around in his own zone every night and have somehow come to the conclusion that he's not a bad defender.

 

[Buffdog]

Stanley's game has solidified somewhat to my eyes over the past several weeks. It's better to have him on the left side with Miller.

He does get sheltered from opponents' best players as much as Arniel can. It's not just who's playing behind you, it's also who you're facing that influences your on ice metrics.

One other note: I think Arniel and the Jets decided that they couldn't expect a D to develop into a solid top 6 role without staying in the lineup for an extended period of time, without yo-yoing in and out of the press box. I agree with that general premise. The Jets decided that they'd run with Stanley rather than Heinola for that opportunity. Time will tell if that was the right choice.

Every coach in the league shelters their 4th line and bottom pairing as much as they can.

If those guys were capable of succeeding against other teams better players, they wouldn't be on the 4th line and bottom pairing

By definition, they are your weakest players

 

[Jet]

If Stan's doing *something* (that we can't detect with our eyes or in any stat) to boost Hellebuyck's SV% at 5v5, why does that effect not carry over to the PK where he's got the worst on-ice SV% of any Jet defender and 9th worst in the league?

The "type of shots he allows" are stats (somewhat and maybe imperfectly) captured by xGA, SCA and HDCA and he is 6th, 5th and 6th out of 6 on the Jets this year at 5v5 per 60 minutes...all vs. soft competition.

The only mental gymnastics going on are with the people who watch Stanley bumbling around in his own zone every night and have somehow come to the conclusion that he's not a bad defender.

You know that PK and 5v5 is different, right?

 

[Gm0ney]

You know that PK and 5v5 is different, right?

All the evidence suggests Stanley's not a good defender. The mental gymnastics aren't coming from the side that's saying "Hey, this guy looks pretty bad, and statistically gives up lots of dangerous chances against weak competition. He's not a good defender."

 

[Gm0ney]

I also love when they give people who say anything complimentary about Stanley cute nicknames like we're in love with the guy.

Of these groups, only one is being realistic. I don't think ANYONE on this forum is saying Stanley is a great defenseman (if you are, raise your hand). All you and I (and a handful of others) is stating is that Stanley has shown to be a capable (albeit) flawed 6-7 guy. That seems pretty objectively true based on metrics, eye test and how the organization views and uses him.

Do you mean "Logang"? It's a good nickname - not offensive or derogatory or anything. If you're on board with the Stanley Project, you should embrace it!

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

No, Stan's GF% is better because when Stan steps on the ice, Helle notices and plays better for those 45 seconds, then starts playing at a lower level when he gets off the ice

I think that's what these people are suggesting? You'd think for a bunch of posters who fancy themselves as intelligent (to a point of mocking and deriding those who disagree with them), they'd understand what a constants and variables are when making comparisons

There's a reason they've all blocked me. They don't like it when I point things like this out

Couldnt agree more about blocking... its a true sign of a failing argument

 

[Moloch]

Stanley plays his best when hes with Miller which is probably why people haven't been complaining about him recently, lol.

The worst games I've seen Stan play this year have without a doubt been with Fleury