OT: LOCAL COVID19 - PART I... Seriously, local only

[Stylizer1]

I'd really like to understand this point of view, but it just looks like a bunch of incoherent angst. "You can't worry about what ifs" sounds like a slogan that a goth kid tattoos on their upper back.

I know making fun of you won't shake you from your opinions. So if there's part of what I said that you disagree with, engage me with logical discourse. I'm willing to try to understand your view point.

I am clearly the one without angst.

 

[maclean]

You can't worry about what ifs. [...] I am 100% confident that the precautions I have taken during the last 2 years are sufficient enough to protect me and my family. I take great care in looking at as much information that I can to form my opinion and don't try to preach to anyone what they should do. I am not on any social media and never have been except for HFB and I'm not sure that even qualifies.

I do understand this position and to a large extent it's my natural response as well, there's only one thing it doesn't account for and that's the whole rest of society. I.e., I feel like I can take care of myself and my family, but if the COVID is out there running wild among other people, it has a direct impact on my freedom of movement, on the economic climate which impacts my own work and income, etc. For me getting vaccinated was the one thing I could do to try to at least help address that aspect. At the end of the day if I'm confident enough in my immune system to deal with COVID, I should be confident enough in its ability to deal with the vaccine too.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

More than 1,700 fully vaccinated people got COVID-19 in Ontario over the past two weeks. Experts say it's not a concern

 

[coladin]

I don't think the article you linked to supports what you're saying here.

For one, the article said vacination reduces the likelihood of transmission from 38% to 25%, which given that we're talking about a scenario with prolonged close contact, seems like a significant impact.

Second, the scenario of unvaccinated kids being in the dressing room prior, is not one of prolonged close contact, and probably wouldn't even result in any close contact. While the article does suggest a vaccinated infected person has the same peak viral load and potential to pass it on as an infected unvaccinated person, the viral load goes down quicker for vaccinated, so they may be infectious for a shorter period, and are less likely to catch it in the first place.

I'd also be curious to see which vaccines were used, the two mRNA ones appear to have held up better against delta than the single dose J&J vaccine. I'm sure they considered that in the study, I just glossed over the article though.

Edit: just saw your reply to someone else, agree that there's still risk for vaccinated, and I'm not sure how much more risk is introduced if any by unvaccinated kids using the same room prior, so those are both valid points to consider if that's all you were hitting at.

Maybe it's just me, but slightly off topic...

But when someone says it is 13% better, because it went from 38% to 25%, to me that is actually 34% better, using 38 as the starting point. Or is it just me that looks at it that way!

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Maybe it's just me, but slightly off topic...

But when someone says it is 13% better, because it went from 38% to 25%, to me that is actually 34% better, using 38 as the starting point. Or is it just me that looks at it that way!

You are correct. If something goes from 25% to 38%, the proper way to refer to that would be that it’s “13 percentage points better”.

 

[thinkwild]

The thinking appears to be now that most of us have had two doses of a 3 shot vaccine regimen. I suppose it's still even possible that it will be a 'once every x number of years' regimen too. It doesnt appear vaccine passports are due to be changed to require 3 shots. So i guess the 3rd jab (or possibly even a pill now?) will be more one that is available to those who are worried about waning effectiveness, even if it is still quite good. I imagine i will probably try and get a 3rd one to be safe. Free safety, why not.

 

[Stylizer1]

Just some interesting reading.

PROPAGANDA: Military saw pandemic as chance to test techniques on Canadians, says report | Ottawa Sun

 

[Stylizer1]

Ontario reported 438 new COVID-19 cases Thursday, with 279 cases in people who were not fully vaccinated or whose vaccination status was unknown, and 159 in fully vaccinated people.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Ontario reported 438 new COVID-19 cases Thursday, with 279 cases in people who were not fully vaccinated or whose vaccination status was unknown, and 159 in fully vaccinated people.

I am a little slow at times, especially after an embarrassing Sens loss... but what’s your point?

 

[DrEasy]

Ontario reported 438 new COVID-19 cases Thursday, with 279 cases in people who were not fully vaccinated or whose vaccination status was unknown, and 159 in fully vaccinated people.

A whopping 65% of cases found among the now tiny 15% of the population which isn't vaccinated is indeed the strongest argument for vaccination (not to mention the even larger effect on hospitalizations: from your own link: "Of those hospitalized, the province says 82 patients are in intensive care due to COVID-19 — 67 of those patients are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated, while 15 are fully vaccinated.").

 

[IlTerrifico]

Good news and bad news for local covid fearers, bad news as several locals join the several dozen infected NHL players and coaches around the league who caught it despite being vaccinated.

Good news, among these dozens of young, healthy players and their middle aged coaches, there seems to be no fear of any kind of material health impact from the issue, presumably because they are young, don't have side health issues, and aren't obese, which is of course entirely predictable.

Let's just hope there aren't any developments in longer term myocarditis outcomes as a result of their shots. Oh well, their decisions not to shut in in fear and scream about the unvaxxed being terrorists seems to have panned out with short term illnesses that will leave them full of immunities, free to go on and compete in hockey at the highest level.

 

[Beech]

Good news and bad news for local covid fearers, bad news as several locals join the several dozen infected NHL players and coaches around the league who caught it despite being vaccinated.

Good news, among these dozens of young, healthy players and their middle aged coaches, there seems to be no fear of any kind of material health impact from the issue, presumably because they are young, don't have side health issues, and aren't obese, which is of course entirely predictable.

Let's just hope there aren't any developments in longer term myocarditis outcomes as a result of their shots. Oh well, their decisions not to shut in in fear and scream about the unvaxxed being terrorists seems to have panned out with short term illnesses that will leave them full of immunities, free to go on and compete in hockey at the highest level.

the basic fault in this matter has been in the way government has handled this. As usual, they messed up the message.

From day one, the message should have been; get vaccinated so that your ability to survive Covid is greater and your likelihood of a severe reaction requiring hospitalization is lower. But, they opted for exaggerations and misrepresentation in order to sway....Politicians have a real nasty habit of doing that.... Their preoccupation is getting elected and so their instincts is to fear monger, exaggerate, etc... A Liberal politician will scream at the top of his voice; those conservatives want to take away your pension...we hear that, and some run scared...It is false, but it works...Conservatives will scream; those liberals want to sell your country to XXXXX...again, ridicules, but it works.

Their instincts are fear mongering, exaggerations, etc...and they did the same for the vaccine.... It was idiotic.

The vaccine does not prevent spread. As time marches on, all of us will get Covid. Unless you are willing to isolate yourself in incredible fashion, it is unlikely that you will escape getting it. The issue is; get covid while vaccinated and thus reduce your risks of severe illness or death. Or get covid while un-vaccinated and worsen your odds..

Another dumb matter was; the strong arming...Again, politicians were so use to imposing...they fell back on it. As with many issues in society, Politicians do more harm than good.

I hope that individuals use their common sense. Their intelligence and their sensibility to make the right decisions. I hope that people are caring enough, compassionate enough to be careful and not put others at risk. And I hope that as time passes and we have greater confidence in the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine that more and more people get vaccinated so that collectively we can survive this as infection rates hit 100% and continue. If you follow the numbers, a number of hot-spots may have already hit 90% plus infection. And the spread has not stopped. It suggests that herd immunity is not applicable and so Covid is now a new deadlier Flu.

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

Let's just hope there aren't any developments in longer term myocarditis outcomes as a result of their shots.

Good thing myocarditis post vaccination happens 3-10 days post vaccine! So if anyone has gotten myocarditis from a vaccine in the nhl, we should know at this point.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We have a friend who has gone down the rabbit hole so far now that she believes that the vaccine causes all kinds of medical problems, from strokes, to changes in menstruation patterns, and anything in between.

In fact, the vaccine can even cause skin rashes and shingles in people (her) just by being in close proximity to someone else who has been vaccinated.

She has started to prefer to only hang out with like minded people these days as well.

It’s sad. In the end this will have irrevocably changed our friendship with this person to some degree. I just don’t really understand how regular people can believe this kind of stuff.

 

[Stylizer1]

We have a friend who has gone down the rabbit hole so far now that she believes that the vaccine causes all kinds of medical problems, from strokes, to changes in menstruation patterns, and anything in between.

In fact, the vaccine can even cause skin rashes and shingles in people (her) just by being in close proximity to someone else who has been vaccinated.

She has started to prefer to only hang out with like minded people these days as well.

It’s sad. In the end this will have irrevocably changed our friendship with this person to some degree. I just don’t really understand how regular people can believe this kind of stuff.

Every single person perceives the world through their own eyes. At least those who are not malleable.

 

[coladin]

Ontario reported 438 new COVID-19 cases Thursday, with 279 cases in people who were not fully vaccinated or whose vaccination status was unknown, and 159 in fully vaccinated people.

The infection rate is 7.48 cases per 100,000 unvaccinated people compared to 1.74 cases per 100,000 fully vaccinated people.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Every single person perceives the world through their own eyes. At least those who are not malleable.

Yeah, not helpful in real life. I’m not angry at her, but being willing to believe that a person can become infertile by standing next to a vaccinated person is a hard place to reach.

It’s disconcerting to say the least. When did it become paramount to accept that people can make things up and call them true. There aren’t alternate views to all things, and I can personally see some real problems with pretending otherwise so that some folks don’t get their feelings hurt.

I’m not sure we should be coddling ignorance, especially willful ignorance.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

In the interest of keeping Local doctors safe.

 

[IlTerrifico]

So France halts Moderna for under 30s:

France halts Moderna vaccine for under-30s after jab linked with heart problems | Science | News | Express.co.uk

In the article, the study reports it was linked to some 132 cases of myocarditis per million doses given. For Pfizer, the result was nearly 80 percent lower, with the number of cases per million doses estimated at 27.

So, while we have probably 15 million or so under 30s in Canada, we have 95 deaths from covid from the last numbers, and most had side health complications.

Meanwhile, at the ratio above, if 15 million healthy under 30s had 2 doses of Pfizer, 810 could expect myocarditis versus almost none of the healthies would expect death. 5 times more for Moderna.

And they want to mandate vaccines for 5 to 12 year olds. Madness.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

So France halts Moderna for under 30s:

France halts Moderna vaccine for under-30s after jab linked with heart problems | Science | News | Express.co.uk

In the article, the study reports it was linked to some 132 cases of myocarditis per million doses given. For Pfizer, the result was nearly 80 percent lower, with the number of cases per million doses estimated at 27.

So, while we have probably 15 million or so under 30s in Canada, we have 95 deaths from covid from the last numbers, and most had side health complications.

Meanwhile, at the ratio above, if 15 million healthy under 30s had 2 doses of Pfizer, 810 could expect myocarditis versus almost none of the healthies would expect death. 5 times more for Moderna.

And they want to mandate vaccines for 5 to 12 year olds. Madness.

Canada (or at least Ontario) will be follow suit on that soon. Distribution pharmacies here have already received some documents from the Ontario government strongly urging Pfizer over Moderna at this point for the under 20 crowd (especially boys). I didn't read the entire document to get the full details, but it's definitely on their radar.

 

[Billy Bridges]

So France halts Moderna for under 30s:

France halts Moderna vaccine for under-30s after jab linked with heart problems | Science | News | Express.co.uk

In the article, the study reports it was linked to some 132 cases of myocarditis per million doses given. For Pfizer, the result was nearly 80 percent lower, with the number of cases per million doses estimated at 27.

So, while we have probably 15 million or so under 30s in Canada, we have 95 deaths from covid from the last numbers, and most had side health complications.

Meanwhile, at the ratio above, if 15 million healthy under 30s had 2 doses of Pfizer, 810 could expect myocarditis versus almost none of the healthies would expect death. 5 times more for Moderna.

And they want to mandate vaccines for 5 to 12 year olds. Madness.

Why are you comparing cases of myocarditis from the vaccine to covid-related deaths? That's not how logic works. Compare vaccine-related myocarditis to COVID -related myocarditis, or keep your thoughts to yourself.

 

[Micklebot]

Why are you comparing cases of myocarditis from the vaccine to covid-related deaths? That's not how logic works. Compare vaccine-related myocarditis to COVID -related myocarditis, or keep your thoughts to yourself.

So Healthcan has something to say about that...
Statement from the Council of Chief Medical Officers of Health (CCMOH): Update on COVID-19 Vaccines and the Risk of Myocarditis and Pericarditis - Canada.ca

the risk of cardiac complications, including myocarditis, has been shown to be substantially increased following SARS-CoV-2 infection, and that it is higher following infection than after vaccination.

It's also been noted that in those who do experience vacinne related myocarditis the majority of affected individuals, even if hospitalized, experience relatively mild illness, respond well to conservative treatment, and recover quickly.

Get Pfizer if you under 30 I guess is the plan, that's the nice thing about having multiple effective vacinnes, you pull one and just use the one with the lower risk profile.

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

So Healthcan has something to say about that...
Statement from the Council of Chief Medical Officers of Health (CCMOH): Update on COVID-19 Vaccines and the Risk of Myocarditis and Pericarditis - Canada.ca


It's also been noted that in those who do experience vacinne related myocarditis the majority of affected individuals, even if hospitalized, experience relatively mild illness, respond well to conservative treatment, and recover quickly.

Get Pfizer if you under 30 I guess is the plan, that's the nice thing about having multiple effective vacinnes, you pull one and just use the one with the lower risk profile.

While I know that myocarditis sounds really scary, there really are differing severities of myocarditis. From being completely benign requiring only follow up imaging to requiring ibuprofen with improvement over a week or two to requiring blood products and cardiac medication (ICU admission) with some longer term complications to permanent cardiac damage requiring transplant to death.

Now myocarditis post vaccine (from any study or personal experience that I've seen) has only ever required ibuprofen or follow up. It's never been more severe than that. Now I've seen 2 teenagers need heart transplants post Covid infection (this will literally cut their life expectancy in half) and about 60-70 that have required blood products and cardiac medication and have had arrhythmias in the short term.

Again I understand that no one wants vaccine injuries, but the rate of myocarditis post infection is higher than post vaccine and so is the severity (also the rate of myocarditis in the general population is 10-15/100,000 so this post vaccine rate is no higher than myocarditis in the general population).

Weigh the risks vs benefits. If you want to look at myocarditis post vaccination, compare that with myocarditis post infection. If you want to look at death, compare death post vaccination vs death with Covid infection. Look at long term Covid effects vs long term vaccine effects.

But so often I hear comparisons of a side effect of vaccines compared to death of COVID. Which makes zero sense to me.

 

[Yak]

I lost my brother in law and mom to covid. They had underlying health concerns however and were not vaxed.

I wish everyone all the best that we can beat and survive this.

Too many lives lost already.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I lost my brother in law and mom to covid. They had underlying health concerns however and were not vaxed.

I wish everyone all the best that we can beat and survive this.

Too many lives lost already.

I clicked “like” but I meant it as putting my name at the bottom of your post in support.

My condolences Yak