List some reasons why Canada will/will not dominate in Sochi?

[1Gold Standard]

What a cocky thread... Threads like this is the reason why all other hockey nations do not like canadian fans.

Don't forget to take light bulbs with you, winners!

And take a look at the OP. I highly doubt it was started by a Canadian. Looks a little suspicious if you ask me.

 

[Brainiac]

Saying that Canada will win no matter what would be cocky.

Saying that Canada has the best team on paper is not cocky at all, it's merely an observation.

 

[WarriorofTime]

In response to WarriorOfTime's last poat. (Apparently I can't quote posts?):

I'm not sure if you just ignore every post on this site that doesnt have "WarriorOfTime" beside it, but its been said and backed up hundreds of times on this site: the World Championships mean jack ****. You say the constabt theme is the Big Ice... No, the constant theme is NA hockey players not wanting to play hockwy after the playoffs, during summer, half way around the world. Stop trying to use the WHC like it has any bearing on the outcome of the Olympics. Honestly, if you're trying to make a point you're shooting yourself in the foot because 99% of people will stop reading your post as soon as they read "World Championship". You basically wrote a wall of text for no one to read...

I would say the common theme of multiple NHL All Stars getting beat before the Semifinals suggests that the European nations have figured out how to play Canada better now than they used to. So I don't see much merit in discussing "best on best" results from 10+ years ago. Did you see the last of Canadians that have played at the World Championships in the last 4 years? A solid majority of the Olympic Team.

And I like how nobody addresses why Canada used to do much better at the World Championships.. From always holding down a #1 or #2 IIHF World Ranking to currently #5. Can't give other countries any credit for maybe being in a better state than they used to? Come on. Show just a little bit of humility.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Sounds a bit cocky. In Vancouver, USA was the best group format team, and got to play Switzerland in the quarters. An empty-net 2-0 game. In 2006 Finland was the best group stage team and got to play USA in the quarters(albeit different format). 4-3 game. The so called weak teams are gone in the R16. Since Sweden, Czechs and Switzerland are in the same group, one of those are likely to play Canada in the quarters.

Fair enough. You have a point.

Don't forget to take light bulbs with you, winners!

Light bulbs? Not sure what this means.

And take a look at the OP. I highly doubt it was started by a Canadian. Looks a little suspicious if you ask me.

Damn straight!

 

[WarriorofTime]

Congrats other countries have figured out how to score on Devan dubnyk, who hasn't? Honestly, that's just one example. I'm a sharks fan and they had Jason Demers as one of their better D men; that **** is laughable. I could go on but I'm not going to waste my time, you're clearly just trying to get a reaction.

Also, because a couple Olympians played on the team each year over the span of 4 years, with 80% of the team being players who don't have a sniff of playing on the Olympics that means an Olympic caliber team plays at the WHC. LOL. Get real man. It doesn't work like that.

I never said "olympic caliber team". I said multiple NHL all stars - yes, including many Olympians. The point is sending the most talented roster on paper each year doesn't mean Canada will have success on big ice, as the World Championships show. I'm sure most teams would kill to have the Top 9 Canada brought to last year's WC. Still weren't able to get it done. So I'm skeptical about claims that Canada is going to beat everyone by 5 goals on big ice because of NHL stats. As you said, "Get real man. It doesn't work like that".

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I never said "olympic caliber team". I said multiple NHL all stars - yes, including many Olympians. The point is sending the most talented roster on paper each year doesn't mean Canada will have success on big ice, as the World Championships show. I'm sure most teams would kill to have the Top 9 Canada brought to last year's WC. Still weren't able to get it done. So I'm skeptical about claims that Canada is going to beat everyone by 5 goals on big ice because of NHL stats. As you said, "Get real man. It doesn't work like that".

Good points, all.

It is easy to read into the depth of Canada's team and forget about our Achilles heel - the BIG ice.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Good points, all.

It is easy to read into the depth of Canada's team and forget about our Achilles heel - the BIG ice.

I swear. On my next trip to the Niagara Peninsula I'm going to egg your house. (just kidding) but when we lose in North America, do you blame it on the size of the ice as well?

 

[CornKicker]

an act of god maybe? thats about it, the world is going to have to bow down, when canada comes to your town

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

...On my next trip to the Niagara Peninsula I'm going to egg your house...

Wouldn't be the first time. After you're done, we can go to Hooters.

I swear. On my next trip to the Niagara Peninsula I'm going to egg your house. (just kidding) but when we lose in North America, do you blame it on the size of the ice as well?

No one will be happier to be wrong than me, my friend.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Wouldn't be the first time.

Why don't you do what I told you do a long time ago, go look up on the IIHF website records for the last 20 years...and records of teams winning on large ice....there you will find on top of the mountain Canada and the Czech Rep.

Never say no to beer, wings and hooters girls.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Why don't you do what I told you do a long time ago, go look up on the IIHF website records for the last 20 years...and records of teams winning on large ice....there you will find on top of the mountain Canada and the Czech Rep.

It is just something that's stuck in my head - it comes from watching Canada looking lost on the big ice at the WC, year after year. I can't shake it. Again, I would love to be wrong.

Never say no to beer, wings and hooters girls.

 

[1Gold Standard]

It is just something that's stuck in my head - it comes from watching Canada looking lost on the big ice at the WC, year after year. I can't shake it. Again, I would love to be wrong.

You shouldn't make the mistake of overvaluing the WHC. You can't derive too many lessons from that rather not so important tournament.
Canada can lose in Sochi and it will have nothing to do with the ice... but simply we got beat by a better team. period full stop.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

You shouldn't make the mistake of overvaluing the WHC. You can't derive any lessons from that mean nothing tournament.

Fair enough.

Having said that, I'm not the only one. Others believe it, too. Like I said, I have seen a ton of VERY talented hockey players looking VERY lost over the years on the big ice.

Anyway, I hope I am wrong and Canada beats Russia in the GMG.

NOTE :

Imagine the grief you will get, when you get back to Russia, if Canada were to lose in the Gold Medal Game to the host country. Eeeeekkkkk!!!!!

 

[1Gold Standard]

Fair enough.

Having said that, I'm not the only one. Others believe it, too. Like I said, I have seen a ton of VERY talented hockey players looking VERY lost over the years on the big ice.

Anyway, I hope I am wrong and Canada beats Russia in the GMG.

NOTE :

Imagine the grief you will get, when you get back to Russia, if Canada were to lose in the Gold Medal Game to the host country. Eeeeekkkkk!!!!!

At the WHC Hockey Canada scrapes up what it can and tries to muck trough as best it can with very little prep time. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Two things a hockey player needs to be in order to play a big ice game. 1. skate well. 2. be smart. Hockey Canada just grabs whoever is available and whoever agrees without considering too too much other than that....

but in the last 20 years how many have we won? 5. Russia has won 2 on large ice. Are you going to say Russia has more of a big ice complex than we do? The whole big ice argument is silly.

 

[Uhmkay]

I don't know if we will dominate, but I think we'd do much better against Russia if this player were taken:

http://en.khl.ru/players/525/

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Players that played on these World Championship teams included Jamie Benn, Jay Bouwmeester, Matt Duchene, Ryan Getzlaf, Dan Hamhuis, Duncan Keith, Rick Nash, Corey Perry, Alex Pietrangelo, Mike Smith, Steven Stamkos, PK Subban, John Tavares, and Marc Edouard-Vlasic.

Vlasic, Hamhuis & Subban played a grand total of 6 games between them

 

[Thesensation19*]

The loss of Scott Niedermeyer and Chris Pronger truly is a blow. But honestly the team has great replacements. Just how good are those replacements outside of the talk on skill and talent. Can PK Subban take over for what Nieds did for the team.

Are their bottom 2 guys the right choices... possibly. Not fully convinced by I am convinced.

I ultimately think their two biggest issues are lack of a bottom 6. Nash and Toews served as great shut down line and are said to be doing the same thing this year. Awesome. But is Sharp capable of doing the same on that line...

I dont see enough Penalty Killers. Specialists i mean. Not just guys who have played before on the PK.

Their goaltending is shaky too. But with their strong defensive unit, it should be good enough to win a medal.

Gold is tough. Russians are home but I feel they have a lot of defensive issues. Swedens are stacked from head to toe, maybe lacking some depth but they are well equipped. USA does not have the same talent, but if they stick to their blue print it should be fine. Finland is always a surprise.

 

[Brainiac]

The loss of Scott Niedermeyer and Chris Pronger truly is a blow. But honestly the team has great replacements. Just how good are those replacements outside of the talk on skill and talent. Can PK Subban take over for what Nieds did for the team.

Are their bottom 2 guys the right choices... possibly. Not fully convinced by I am convinced.

I ultimately think their two biggest issues are lack of a bottom 6. Nash and Toews served as great shut down line and are said to be doing the same thing this year. Awesome. But is Sharp capable of doing the same on that line...

I dont see enough Penalty Killers. Specialists i mean. Not just guys who have played before on the PK.

Their goaltending is shaky too. But with their strong defensive unit, it should be good enough to win a medal.

Gold is tough. Russians are home but I feel they have a lot of defensive issues. Swedens are stacked from head to toe, maybe lacking some depth but they are well equipped. USA does not have the same talent, but if they stick to their blue print it should be fine. Finland is always a surprise.

Not to be disrespectful, but you're analyzing this as if the goal was to build a team for a playoff run on NHL ice with a salary cap.

1-Pronger/Nieds: they were not really a factor in 2010. Better go with younger and faster guys. No need to stamp everybody in the boards at the Olympics.

2-Bottom 6: hey, there's no salary cap at the Olympics. So you can build a top 6 and complement your roster with another top 6! Other teams won't be able to keep up.

3-True, you need PKers/faceoff guys, but we have that with Toews, Bergeron etc. Even guys like Crosby, Getzlaf, Sharp, Marleau are great in that regard.

 

[jgoud*]

LOL. I understand the concept much better than you do, as I've played poker for a number of years at an amateur/semi-pro level and earned my bread and butter with sports trading on betfair for a while.

The pie chart uses specific numbers, but there are no specific values when estimating the probability of events in real life. We're talking about a range of probability. That pie chart reflects the average odds provided in the global betting market and was used to show people that Team Canada is most likely not going to win gold despite being one of the favorites.


You keep showing your ignorance regarding betting/sports trading. Why do you even bother discussing betting when you haven't got the slighest clue how it works?

Read some of my previous posts, if you want to understand the underlying principle behind betting/sports trading. It works exactly like any other market does. The odds aren't made up by some random guy in his office, but are a reflection of the forces of the market. The odds are the end result. The only difference between betting and other markets is that the initial odds are calculated using an algorithm.

The only major difference between stock exchange and the global betting market is the difference in liquidity and the size of the market.

I understand how both markets work. The major difference is that the stock market reflects actually prices, where as the odds will be in favor of the team that most people put their money on. How is that not biased? Hypothetically, if everyone was irrational, or if only biased Finns participated in betting, the odds could be in Finland's favor. The odds have zero effect on the actual outcome of the event, it just takes into account how many people/how much money is being wagered on certain countries, and many bets are uninformed or/and biased bets.

I can see the relationships in terms of price/odds moving up and down due to demand, but other than that, there isn't much of a relation. And using the odds as an argument to why Canada probably won't win is a weak argument.

 

[Yamaguchi*]

At the WHC Hockey Canada scrapes up what it can and tries to muck trough as best it can with very little prep time. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Two things a hockey player needs to be in order to play a big ice game. 1. skate well. 2. be smart. Hockey Canada just grabs whoever is available and whoever agrees without considering too too much other than that....

but in the last 20 years how many have we won? 5. Russia has won 2 on large ice. Are you going to say Russia has more of a big ice complex than we do? The whole big ice argument is silly.

Careful. The Russians have those 2 golds on big ice in the past 5 years, and they got a silver as well. Canada only had 1 silver.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Careful. The Russians have those 2 golds on big ice in the past 5 years, and they got a silver as well. Canada only had 1 silver.

Ya so? and before that in a 7 year span Canada won 3 gold and 3 silver all on big ice and Russia had 2 bronze in the same time frame. Which is exactly my point.. drawing lessons from the WHC means nothing.

 

[Yamaguchi*]

Ya so? and before that in a 7 year span Canada won 3 gold and 3 silver all on big ice and Russia had 2 bronze in the same time frame. Which is exactly my point.. drawing lessons from the WHC means nothing.

How many current Olympic players participated in those 7 years? The fact is Canadian teams has been struggling on big ice in recent years.

 

[daver]

How many current Olympic players participated in those 7 years? The fact is Canadian teams has been struggling on big ice in recent years.

So what's your theory on why they have struggled? What has changed in recent years?

 

[Yamaguchi*]

So what's your theory on why they have struggled? What has changed in recent years?

I guess they started losing more games on big ice.

 

[1Gold Standard]

So what's your theory on why they have struggled? What has changed in recent years?

Hockey Canada is to blame. How do they sell the WHC to Canadians? After Vancouver Bob "You Know What" Nicholson stood up and said and I quote "and so begins another Olympic cycle" time to prepare the next set of youngsters for the next Olympics. Which is just an excuse to cheap out on the player insurance costs; but they tell us it's an Olympic cycle. Hockey Canada is not serious about the WHC so why should the players be serious? The attitude is get me in and get me out, hopefully uninjured and when the Olympics rolls around again I hope to be in in the conversation. Poor coaching + some bad player selection (not really an abundance of choice though) + unmotivated players for the most part.

I'll be curious to see if the NHL ends its Olympic participation will Hockey Canada's attitude change towards the WHC...and will they start insuring those big NHL contracts?

HC was serious 1 year in the preceding 4. when Olympic seeding was on the line.

2 things I would do. limit the number of 18-19-20 year old players HC takes over there. They brought an undrafted 18 year old D-man Murray to the WHC. They are completely out of their minds.
A fulltime dedicated National Team coach both on the senior (Andy Murray) and junior side as well...don't really have a candidate in my mind.