KaseMeOutside
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no the argument is he was a top 4 defenseman on the best team in that league and usually the only time young players get roles like that, are because they are really good.
no the argument is he was a top 4 defenseman on the best team in that league and usually the only time young players get roles like that, are because they are really good.
Magic Man
Registered User
Andreas Johnsson jumped to the SHL his draft+1 and right into a top-6 role on a good team as a 7th rder. He has gone on to improve every season since. He doesn't jump into a class of his own in the Leafs prospect pool because he got to play in the SHL. I'm sure he will be awarded no credit for his performance like the others of I've listed so far.
Sojourn
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- Nov 1, 2006
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I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You're the one trying to argue that Kapanen and Larsson are equivalent prospects, based on pre-draft rankings. Who cares about trying to convince you? It was your poor proposal that started this entire line of discussion. This comes across as you just trying to up the value of your prospect.
That also isn't what my argument is. My argument is that he is a young defenseman in an adult professional league. It could just as easily have been the Finnish league(See: Sami Vatanen), and I'd say it's more impressive because he's still a kid defenseman, playing against grown men, and doing well. The bottom line is that it's difficult for a teen defenseman to play in a professional league, and not be exposed as a kid against grown men.
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Magic Man
Registered User
That's funny. This originally started because of a proposal for Lindholm, I don't really care for Larsson either way. In the process of it's defense I used Kapanen as a value comparable to Larsson. I was called out for doing so, not only that but it was claimed that Larsson was a far superior prospect to Kapanen. Which has led to numerous comparable, similar value prospects being brought into the discussion. I don't care much for this debate, I just found the level of homerism in this thread in regards to Larsson so bad that I had to continue.
So, this comes down to the fact you like a defenseman that can play at a pro level right away better than a forward that can and you still can't admit they're of comparable value?
dracom
Registered User
That's funny. This originally started because of a proposal for Lindholm, I don't really care for Larsson either way. In the process of it's defense I used Kapanen as a value comparable to Larsson. I was called out for doing so, not only that but it was claimed that Larsson was a far superior prospect to Kapanen. Which has led to numerous comparable, similar value prospects being brought into the discussion. I don't care much for this debate, I just found the level of homerism in this thread in regards to Larsson so bad that I had to continue.
So, this comes down to the fact you like a defenseman that can play at a pro level right away better than a forward that can and you still can't admit they're of comparable value?
Isn't the difference between the two, is Larsson is playing against adult men while Kapanen is playing against players his own age? The leagues aren't really comparable. And yeah, a young defensemen doing good in an adult league is more impressive than a young forward doing good in a league with players of a similar age.
Magic Man
Registered User
You haven't been following along very well. Kapanen has played in the Finnish league and AHL since his draft. Not the SHL, he's finnish. But, they're both pro leagues.
KaseMeOutside
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- Oct 18, 2011
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how can a 19 year old dman picked 27th possibly force his way onto a team with a bunch of guys ahead of him? maybe just maybe he is pretty good?
how can a 19 year old dman picked 27th possibly force his way onto a team with a bunch of guys ahead of him? maybe just maybe he is pretty good?
All I have heard about him this pre-season is that he has sucked.
Go figure.
Ducks Nation*
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- Mar 19, 2013
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Magic Man
Registered User
how can a 19 year old dman picked 27th possibly force his way onto a team with a bunch of guys ahead of him? maybe just maybe he is pretty good?
Pronman ranked Kapanen 58th and Larsson 117th this summer. He doesn't think they're comparable either.
He also ranked Bracco, Grundstrom, Dermott, Brown higher than all of Larsson, Montour and Steel.
Pronman ranked Kapanen 58th and Larsson 117th this summer. He doesn't think they're comparable either.
He also ranked Bracco, Grundstrom, Dermott, Brown higher than all of Larsson, Montour and Steel.
He appears to have changed his mind.
- Jul 25, 2012
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Pronman ranked Kapanen 58th and Larsson 117th this summer. He doesn't think they're comparable either.
He also ranked Bracco, Grundstrom, Dermott, Brown higher than all of Larsson, Montour and Steel.
Other peoples rankings don't matter if we feel our players are better or worth keeping, you realize that right?
Toronto is prob okay trading those pieces, Anaheim realizes for us to stay competitive we have to have a strong system and develop our players well. Montour had a low stock and has been rising, Larsson has a pretty large potential. I think Steel was drafted as a project player so I don't expect his ranking to be that high.
- Jul 25, 2012
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He brings up summer rankings for a post from yesterday
clearly he is prob higher on Larsson now then he was on summer.
I've been more impressed with Larsson in my viewing this preseason than Theodore, Montour, or Lindholm at 19.
He has great composure, can skate the puck through the zone and is already pretty big and strong in the corners. Has the frame to get MUCH stronger as well. Kind of reminded me of Klingberg, with less offensive flair and more size. I wont be surprised if he turns out to be the best of the Ducks young defenseman.
He has great composure, can skate the puck through the zone and is already pretty big and strong in the corners. Has the frame to get MUCH stronger as well. Kind of reminded me of Klingberg, with less offensive flair and more size. I wont be surprised if he turns out to be the best of the Ducks young defenseman.
Magic Man
Registered User
I've said all thread long that it's fine to prefer your own player. I never forwarded a proposal for Larsson. I was called out for a value comparable and having been eating **** from multiple people trying to defend it. I don't care to make a prospect swap, I've merely been pointing out that they're comparable prospects, in similar tier of young players. Nothing about his progress has provided proof of him having passed Kapanen or the others by such a significant level. The fact that you've all turned your noses to it all just shows me how biased you all are.
If he makes the Ducks he deserves some props. Given the # of dmen ahead of him and already under contract, I find it hard to believe. Kapanen hasn't had a bad pre-season himself, if the Leafs were weaker up front, he may have a chance.
- Jul 25, 2012
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Cept you are the one comparing them which they really are not comparable.
Everyone knows dmen are much harder to predict over forward position, so in that sense yea I guess they could be comparable but I feel like you kinda know what you are going to get with kapanan and that is likely a 2nd/3rd player.
Larsson is still very unknown what he can become but his stock is rising. I think its dumb to compare forward/defensive prospects... and the overall comparison you made to start the whole argument was dumb. Teams value their top 3 picks more than you guys value your 4-10 pick... doesn't matter on the actual value of the player.... its just based on the fact that were trading our 3 best assets, where yours could be comparable but you still have 3 or 4 players ahead as far as assets go, so you shouldn't expect duck fans or any other fan base to agree with you based on that.
Magic Man
Registered User
That's crazy. The fact that the Leafs have 3 top-10 prospects. Doesn't make the prospects behind them less valuable.
The scout that was just cited praising Larsson as proof. Just compared all prospects together this summer and concluded that there were 59 spots between Larsson and Kapanen in the rankings and another 4 Leafs prospects. But, with Kapanen being the one ranked higher. If he can compare them, why can't I?
- Jul 25, 2012
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If you didn't have marner/Matthews and nylander I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be throwing around your next 3 guys in every trade, so yes it does devalue them in the sense you are more willing to trade them.
Anaheim doesn't have that luxury those are our best assets and we likely don't want to move em until we know what we have.
HoweHullOrr
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- Oct 3, 2013
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Three cap dumps no less. What, that doesn't change your mind?
Three cap dumps that would cost $10.15 m, just what a team against the cap needs to do
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HoweHullOrr
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- Oct 3, 2013
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By "most people", you would have to assume that means "Leaf fans" as Trouba and Fowler is a pretty nice haul. Everyone else - not so much.
I watched him at the Summer Showcase and he was killing it. I've been impressed with him every time I watched him. I heard he has a weird skating style, which could cause people to be distracted, but I really don't know what people see other than a very good player.
