Linden Vey

[me2]

While Vey's contract isn't good in any stretch of the imagination but isn't bad enough to keep any time team from trading for him if they had interest in the player. An expiring 1 mill contract is easy to fit between now and the deadline. That said, I would doubt any team would be interested enough in the player from what he has shown in the NHL. Contract is the least of any concern.

The issue with that is Vey is not the type of player a playoff team wants as a deadline aquisition.

Your best bet is a hockey trade for someone like Etem that another team has run out of patience with, or a cap dump with a pick, etc.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The issue with that is Vey is not the type of player a playoff team wants as a deadline aquisition.

Your best bet is a hockey trade for someone like Etem that another team has run out of patience with, or a cap dump with a pick, etc.

Like a Khokhlachev or McIlrath (if he stays in AV's bad books).

Nothing has really changed for Vey here, in terms of his future, IMO. Still see him being a fringe NHLer destined for trade.

 

[mathonwy]

Vey was a horrible trade. Part of the reason our drafting has been so historically bad is we piss away 2nd rounders. We would be lucky to get a 5th for Vey now.

Moving to the Vey thread and I hope PM sees this.

I disagree that the Vey trade was a bad one.

The reason I disagree is because JB was trading futures for futures and the futures that we were getting back had a (I'm assuming) better than normal likelihood of developing into a real NHL player based on that players AHL relationship with the coach.

WD did indeed win two championships in Medicine Hat so from a risk reward standpoint, risking a 2nd rounder for Linden Vey is one that I personally am ok with.

Same deal with Bae.

Not the same deal with Prust.

 

[Huggy]

He battles hard for a little guy but if he's gonna have an NHL career it isn't with us.

If Willie tries to move him to the wing when Sutter and Henrik are back I ll just vomit

 

[Diamonddog01]

Moving to the Vey thread and I hope PM sees this.

I disagree that the Vey trade was a bad one.

The reason I disagree is because JB was trading futures for futures and the futures that we were getting back had a (I'm assuming) better than normal likelihood of developing into a real NHL player based on that players AHL relationship with the coach.

WD did indeed win two championships in Medicine Hat so from a risk reward standpoint, risking a 2nd rounder for Linden Vey is one that I personally am ok with.

Same deal with Bae.

Not the same deal with Prust.

Right. The thought process / strategy was good. It's the same through which the team acquired Pedan and Baertschi. Very premature to consider either of those trades a win, but it does look promising as things currently stand.

So yeah, in isolation it was a gamble that didn't pay off and certainly can be construed as a poor trade. When looked at in context, if we 'win' two of out the three trades (if Baertschi establishes himself as a 2nd line winger, and Pedan as a bottom or even middle pairing defenceman) then the strategy as a whole was successful.

 

[mathonwy]

He battles hard for a little guy but if he's gonna have an NHL career it isn't with us.

If Willie tries to move him to the wing when Sutter and Henrik are back I ll just vomit

The thing is, although Cracknell is a more effective player, Cracknell is also 31 and has already achieved his final form.

I don't think the same for Vey. Considering how much he's improved from last season, I think he's got a lot more growing to do physically as well as mentally.

Would he get picked up if waived? All signs point to no based on the amount of players that have not been picked up.

If that's the direction it goes, I hope he clears.

 

[MS]

Moving to the Vey thread and I hope PM sees this.

I disagree that the Vey trade was a bad one.

The reason I disagree is because JB was trading futures for futures and the futures that we were getting back had a (I'm assuming) better than normal likelihood of developing into a real NHL player based on that players AHL relationship with the coach.

WD did indeed win two championships in Medicine Hat so from a risk reward standpoint, risking a 2nd rounder for Linden Vey is one that I personally am ok with.

Same deal with Bae.

Not the same deal with Prust.

I don't care what the reasons behind it were and if the logic was sound - in the end, it was just a point-blank blown pro scouting evaluation.

LA realized that this guy wasn't a player and his AHL numbers were buoyed by Toffoli and Pearson and sold high. When you watch the guy play and his skillset, that they thought he could be a #2 center in this league is just a rubbish call.

 

[Rick Rocket]

whenever I seem to have the time to catch some canucks hockey; i always see some weak plays. It also seems to be Vey.

does anyone want this guy?

 

[mathonwy]

I don't care what the reasons behind it were and if the logic was sound - in the end, it was just a point-blank blown pro scouting evaluation.

LA realized that this guy wasn't a player and his AHL numbers were buoyed by Toffoli and Pearson and sold high. When you watch the guy play and his skillset, that they thought he could be a #2 center in this league is just a rubbish call.

So you're saying JB didn't do his homework?
- I can get on board with that as its par for the course.

And you're saying Linden Vey at age 24 will NEVER be an NHL player?
- I'm not so sure on this one. He's not a floater nor is he afraid to get his hands dirty so that's a plus.

I still think it was worth the risk because of Veys good work ethic.

 

[MS]

So you're saying JB didn't do his homework?
- I can get on board with that as its par for the course.

And you're saying Linden Vey at age 24 will NEVER be an NHL player?
- I'm not so sure on this one. He's not a floater nor is he afraid to get his hands dirty so that's a plus.

I still think it was worth the risk because of Veys good work ethic.

Yeah, I'm saying that as usual Benning can't scout his way out of a paper bag.

He'll never be an NHL player. He's small, slow, soft, weak-ish defensively, can't win faceoffs, and plays on the perimeter and generates a laughably poor John Scott-level of SOG. He's a poor man's Kyle Wellwood and that isn't an NHL player.

Also I'm not sold in any way that he has a particularly good work ethic. In fact, he openly admitted he wasn't prepared properly last year. And then seemed to mail it in after going to Utica this year.

 

[Jack Tripper]

interested to see if there will be a disconnect between coaching and management once sutter and sedin return from injury

wd is still infatuated with vey and will want to keep him as a 4c, while management i'm sure will want mccann to continue to carry the mentorpede, especially if the canucks drop out of the playoff race as they give up 40+ shots/game continually

 

[Intoewsables]

I don't care what the reasons behind it were and if the logic was sound - in the end, it was just a point-blank blown pro scouting evaluation.

LA realized that this guy wasn't a player and his AHL numbers were buoyed by Toffoli and Pearson and sold high. When you watch the guy play and his skillset, that they thought he could be a #2 center in this league is just a rubbish call.

Yeah.

I like the idea behind the trade; targeting players stuck behind depth on good teams makes a lot of sense in theory. The execution was piss poor though. You've already covered the pro scouting aspect, but giving up a quality pick for a guy that likely would've hit waivers in a few months doesn't make much sense either.

I long for the day when we're the team with so much prospect depth that we can pawn off our lesser ones and recoup draft picks.

 

[alternate]

It's funny to me because if you go into a Mackenze Stewart thread, you will see the same posters who hate the Vey trade saying how we should be taking risks on undersized, slower, skilled players with a track record of production. Now I realize we gave up a 2nd not a 7th, but thats a difference of degrees, not a split in philosophy.

And if you go into a Jensen thread you will see the same posters saying how important progression and production is atbthe AHL level.

Vey, when acquired, checked all these boxes. Also had one of his former coaches, so no mysteries about his character etc. Yet this deal is called a bad trade. Not a trade that didn't work out, but a bad risk in the first place. The answers, my friend, are blowing in the wind.

Decent risk at the time imo, and hasn't been a failure. Played 75 games last season for a 100 point playoff team, which is something. Didn't deserve to make the team out of camp, but playing much better now. Looked like he prioritzed getting stronger in the off season and it impacted his cardio. Now that his stamina has cqught up, the extra bitmof strength is paying off.

4 points in his past 9 games, a 36 point pace. Also has a game winner in the shoot out in that span. I realize that is a tiny sample size, but given his track record of needeing an adjustment year when he moves up a level, there's some reason for optimism. The past few games he's shown his vision and play making ability, and has been setting up a couple good scoring chances per game. If this current pace became his new normal, would posters still be saying a 35-40 point Linden Vey still isn't an NHLer? Obviously he needs to show he can do it for longer than 9 games, but at this point he's shown enough to be considered a decent gamble if nothing else.

 

[hlrsr]

It's funny to me because if you go into a Mackenze Stewart thread, you will see the same posters who hate the Vey trade saying how we should be taking risks on undersized, slower, skilled players with a track record of production. Now I realize we gave up a 2nd not a 7th, but thats a difference of degrees, not a split in philosophy.

This has been explained several times in numerous threads. You're comparing a draft pick to a guy who had played 4 seasons of professional hockey. They are not the same.

 

[alternate]

This has been explained several times in numerous threads. You're comparing a draft pick to a guy who had played 4 seasons of professional hockey. They are not the same.

Not identical, but not completely different either. Just like a pick, a 22year old still has some lottery ticket upside to him. Sure it's more BC Lottery than Powerball, but your explanation doesn't hold water.

 

[opendoor]

Not identical, but not completely different either. Just like a pick, a 22year old still has some lottery ticket upside to him. Sure it's more BC Lottery than Powerball, but your explanation doesn't hold water.

Sure it does. A 17/18 year old has much more room to grow to overcome deficiencies in his game than a soon to be waiver eligible 23 year old does. It's really as simple as that.

 

[hlrsr]

Not identical, but not completely different either. Just like a pick, a 22year old still has some lottery ticket upside to him. Sure it's more BC Lottery than Powerball, but your explanation doesn't hold water.

The point is it isn't hypocritical to believe in taking risks on undersized (or weak skaters or whatever) skilled players in the later rounds and also believe the Vey trade was bad.

You don't take the risk because you think it has a good chance of panning out -- you do it because it only costs you a late round pick. That's key to the entire strategy. Even disregarding that Vey had several years of pro already, trading a 2nd doesn't equate to "take risks on smallish skilled guys in the later rounds."

 

[CherryToke]

Yeah, I'm saying that as usual Benning can't scout his way out of a paper bag.

really? Benning can't scout you say? I assume you mean pro scouting only.

 

[Huggy]

The thing is, although Cracknell is a more effective player, Cracknell is also 31 and has already achieved his final form.

I don't think the same for Vey. Considering how much he's improved from last season, I think he's got a lot more growing to do physically as well as mentally.

Would he get picked up if waived? All signs point to no based on the amount of players that have not been picked up.

If that's the direction it goes, I hope he clears.

Ill admit when I found out Cracknell is that old I kinda let go of my VEy VEndetta

 

[bossram]

It's funny to me because if you go into a Mackenze Stewart thread, you will see the same posters who hate the Vey trade saying how we should be taking risks on undersized, slower, skilled players with a track record of production. Now I realize we gave up a 2nd not a 7th, but thats a difference of degrees, not a split in philosophy.

And if you go into a Jensen thread you will see the same posters saying how important progression and production is atbthe AHL level.

Vey, when acquired, checked all these boxes. Also had one of his former coaches, so no mysteries about his character etc. Yet this deal is called a bad trade. Not a trade that didn't work out, but a bad risk in the first place. The answers, my friend, are blowing in the wind.

Decent risk at the time imo, and hasn't been a failure. Played 75 games last season for a 100 point playoff team, which is something. Didn't deserve to make the team out of camp, but playing much better now. Looked like he prioritzed getting stronger in the off season and it impacted his cardio. Now that his stamina has cqught up, the extra bitmof strength is paying off.

4 points in his past 9 games, a 36 point pace. Also has a game winner in the shoot out in that span. I realize that is a tiny sample size, but given his track record of needeing an adjustment year when he moves up a level, there's some reason for optimism. The past few games he's shown his vision and play making ability, and has been setting up a couple good scoring chances per game. If this current pace became his new normal, would posters still be saying a 35-40 point Linden Vey still isn't an NHLer? Obviously he needs to show he can do it for longer than 9 games, but at this point he's shown enough to be considered a decent gamble if nothing else.

Don't include me in that camp. I'm as critical of Benning as any, but I thought the Bae/Vey deals were of sound logic. Decent gambles. But you aren't going to win 100% of the time.

As for my evaluation of Vey, I don't think he's that bad. Or that he was he even that bad last year. He's a fringe NHLer who may have just enough upside to carve out a role on the team. I thought last year he was actually decent defensively and his possession numbers support this somewhat. If he can squeeze out enough offense to be part of a tertiary scoring line, I think he'll be alright.

 

[Waveburner]

Unreal that people think Vey is better this year. He was absolute trash in the AHL this season and looks just as useless as last year in the NHL. It's amazing how low the standards are in Canuckland for prospects "looking good".

Basically if they don't fire the puck into their net on a regular basis, there will always be a dozen or so posters going on about how he looks better, or that he pulled off a couple nice passes the other game, or threw a big hit once, or managed to make a nice defensive play a couple games in a row.

Personally I long for the day the Canucks have legit NHL prospects earning callups instead of guys like Vey, Schroeder, Jensen, etc. It's been such a long time for the Canucks to have actual exciting prospects that fans end up desperately clinging to the notion that some obvious AHL-level talent will somehow morph into a good NHL player. I mean I understand why, it's just a little depressing.

 

[CouverNucks]

Unreal that people think Vey is better this year. He was absolute trash in the AHL this season and looks just as useless as last year in the NHL. It's amazing how low the standards are in Canuckland for prospects "looking good".

Basically if they don't fire the puck into their net on a regular basis, there will always be a dozen or so posters going on about how he looks better, or that he pulled off a couple nice passes the other game, or threw a big hit once, or managed to make a nice defensive play a couple games in a row.

Personally I long for the day the Canucks have legit NHL prospects earning callups instead of guys like Vey, Schroeder, Jensen, etc. It's been such a long time for the Canucks to have actual exciting prospects that fans end up desperately clinging to the notion that some obvious AHL-level talent will somehow morph into a good NHL player. I mean I understand why, it's just a little depressing.

So Shinkaruk, Gaunce and Pedan aren't "legit NHL prospects" ?

 

[mathonwy]

Unreal that people think Vey is better this year. He was absolute trash in the AHL this season and looks just as useless as last year in the NHL. It's amazing how low the standards are in Canuckland for prospects "looking good".

Basically if they don't fire the puck into their net on a regular basis, there will always be a dozen or so posters going on about how he looks better, or that he pulled off a couple nice passes the other game, or threw a big hit once, or managed to make a nice defensive play a couple games in a row.

Personally I long for the day the Canucks have legit NHL prospects earning callups instead of guys like Vey, Schroeder, Jensen, etc. It's been such a long time for the Canucks to have actual exciting prospects that fans end up desperately clinging to the notion that some obvious AHL-level talent will somehow morph into a good NHL player. I mean I understand why, it's just a little depressing.

Do you have any statistics or advanced statistics to back up your statement?

Because unless you do, it's just an opinion and everyone has opinions.

 

[mathonwy]

interested to see if there will be a disconnect between coaching and management once sutter and sedin return from injury

wd is still infatuated with vey and will want to keep him as a 4c, while management i'm sure will want mccann to continue to carry the mentorpede, especially if the canucks drop out of the playoff race as they give up 40+ shots/game continually

It'll only be a thing if WD can't let go of #MedicineHat4Lyfe.

We saw Dorsett on the top line for an entire ****ing game against the best team in the league and we saw Vey being spoon-fed prime minutes last season while Bo was busy earning his due.

If WD values his job as a NHL coach, he's gonna let it go.

 

[Waveburner]

it's just an opinion and everyone has opinions.

Well duh. No where in my post did I say people should not be allowed to state "I think Vey is improving/showing NHL potential".

I am allowed to express complete disbelief that people can watch hockey and think Vey is showing enough to have an NHL future. It says quite a lot about their ability to evaluate NHL talent/potential.

The stats have been posted many times over and are readily available. Look them up yourself.