Liljegren the new Stralman

[Havoc]

Not sure what games you guys watch thinking a player like Liljegren is much use to us.

An actual young superstar and bona-fide stud like Marner is getting chased out of town but a thread exists to save this mediocre bandaid top 4 because of some myth he wasn't used properly.

He wasn't held back by Keefe. He was simply too trash to be used how you guys wanted him to be used.

Only thread that should exist along these lines is one that states Marner is the next Tkachuk

 

[Primary Assist]

In basketball, the Dallas Mavericks had a policy that scouts and management couldn't use someone of the same race as a comparable. It was necessary because every mixed race shooting guard was being called the next Steph Curry and every Asian ballhandler was being dubbed the next Jeremy Lin.

We should adopt that same mindset with nationality. There is every chance that Lilly is the next Jake Gardiner or Travis Dermott. We say goodbye and... Nothing really happens

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Lilly has only ever played under one Coach in NA.

Let that sink in.

Only ever Keefe....

=====

Perhaps we keep him and see what the new coach can get out of him first?

Exactly, and Keefe didn't exactly show the ability to develop young players at the NHL level.

Lily has played what, just over 2 full seasons worth of games? I'd rather see what he can do under a new voice than trading him away and creating another hole.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Not sure what games you guys watch thinking a player like Liljegren is much use to us.

An actual young superstar and bona-fide stud like Marner is getting chased out of town but a thread exists to save this mediocre bandaid top 4 because of some myth he wasn't used properly.

He wasn't held back by Keefe. He was simply too trash to be used how you guys wanted him to be used.

Only thread that should exist along these lines is one that states Marner is the next Tkachuk

 

[The Iceman]

Timothy is a classic case of needing a change in scenery guy.

Hopefully Berube is that change and not trading him for below face value.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

he's just not that dude it's time to move on.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

This season Timothy Liljegren has 17 points in 21 games where he plays at least 21 minutes. The Leafs are 17-3-1 during that time.

So he had 6 points in the remaining 34 games? If he's so great why can't he hack it playing 3rd pair minutes?

Remember the previous season the Leafs were also great when Rielly was out. Justin Holl almost looked like a legit top pair defenseman during that stretch. Any thoughts of bringing Holl back too?

(my hypothesis is that almost anyone looks good playing lots of minutes with Matthews 5v5, although it's ironic that Rielly's been underwhelming at least two regular seasons running now)

 

[tokyoite]

dont worry berube wont give up on him

 

[francis246]

He needs a coach who can let him play with some confidence that it’s ok to make a mistake, and not saddle him a failing 40 year old defensive partner.

He also needs to play and not be bumped out for Holl types, stifling his development.

Put him on the 3rd pairing with Benoit, let him get a rhythm and some confidence with a coach who actually knows how to put solid defensive structures and plays into place and see what he does.

You don’t throw away your only true RHD shot D that can move the puck, have a decent shot from the blue line and cost 3-4m. You see what you have.

No amount of coaching is going to make him able to absorb a hit on the forecheck. Literally cost us game 3 because he couldn't move a puck. Same thing happened in the two series before against tampa bay. Time to move on, you have to be able to play physical in the playoffs. He's a third pairing guy.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I would give him a 2 year deal to prove he can play under Chief. There would be zero no trade protection however.

 

[Ports]

He’s a 6/7 at best on a cup contender. Too inconsistent, undependable and doesn’t touch anybody in front of the net. If he wasn’t a RD he wouldn’t be around anymore.

 

[Ports]

I'd rather Leafs draft D with a mean streak that are willing to work on their limitations. Otherwise you can end up with softies.

Puck battles have very little to do with upper body strength. Battles are like 75% positional, which requires good feet, strong legs and core, and an understanding of angles and leverage…. And a lot of effort to maintain position on a guy who’s trying to get it instead of you. Shoulder inside shoulder is good position. Hips inside hips is almost a guaranteed battle win.

Upper body was important when you could hook and hold.

Courage helps too. He’s useless in front of their net.

 

[Ports]

Puck battles have very little to do with upper body strength. Battles are like 75% positional, which requires good feet, strong legs and core, and an understanding of angles and leverage…. And a lot of effort to maintain position on a guy who’s trying to get it instead of you. Shoulder inside shoulder is good position. Hips inside hips is almost a guaranteed battle win.

Upper body was important when you could hook and hold.

Courage helps too. He’s useless in front of their net.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Like Stralman Liljegren will be traded.

 

[ITM]

In basketball, the Dallas Mavericks had a policy that scouts and management couldn't use someone of the same race as a comparable. It was necessary because every mixed race shooting guard was being called the next Steph Curry and every Asian ballhandler was being dubbed the next Jeremy Lin.

We should adopt that same mindset with nationality. There is every chance that Lilly is the next Jake Gardiner or Travis Dermott. We say goodbye and... Nothing really happens

I think Liljegren's going to be ok, here or wherever he goes.

Always liked Gardiner but like Liljegren - and Toronto's the worst for this obviously - the hype here seems like something that can't be overcome here. And it's unfair, but our reality unfortunately.

NEVER liked Dermott. Always struck as delusionally confident disproportionate to his value on the club, etc, etc... Glad he's gone.

Won't be entirely pleased if we don't qualify Liljegren. I'd like to see if Berube and Tanev and the like bring another side out of him.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

24/25 year old European dman who everyone couldn't wait to trade because he never consistently found his potential. And what happens after they give up on him? He becomes one of the most dependable top 4 dmen in the league on several contending teams.

Liljegren, a homegrown RD deserves an actual shot (like Woll) at being that guy instead of being given no minutes to do what he shines with. When given opportunity he continues to shine before being buried

This season Timothy Liljegren has 17 points in 21 games where he plays at least 21 minutes. The Leafs are 17-3-1 during that time.

For you stat nerds

https://x.com/i/web/status/1760800447214846150

When Liljegren was promoted to the PP quarterback when Rielly was suspended our PP had the most successful stretch of the season. Liljegren got better as the year went on but simply was not trusted by the coaching staff to actually be allowed to make a difference.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1776244903346851884

I propose trading Liljegren would be a massive mistake. Instead, the Leafs should keep him and let Berube evaluate him and see if he can earn a top 4 spot. We are already trusting our prospects in other ways with Woll as our projected starter and Knies, McMann, Cowan, Robertson being entrusted to take a step for us and fill the role we put them in.

Liljegren is a legit top 4 dman he just needs to be let loose for 25 games.

I don't need to even read the rest of the thread or look at the data.

If Lily is cheap, keep him.

And I think he's probably cheap to keep.

Now watch him get traded to St Louis or something, on the cheap btw, and we're like "why didn't we keep this guy?"

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Not sure what games you guys watch thinking a player like Liljegren is much use to us.

An actual young superstar and bona-fide stud like Marner is getting chased out of town but a thread exists to save this mediocre bandaid top 4 because of some myth he wasn't used properly.

He wasn't held back by Keefe. He was simply too trash to be used how you guys wanted him to be used.

Only thread that should exist along these lines is one that states Marner is the next Tkachuk

You lost me at Marner,

Because you're on a different planet making that comparison.

How much will Marner make................ which has no bearing on how much will Lilligren make?

They are not connected in any way. Lily is a depth type idea whereas Marner is a really major signing.

 

[Maplebeasts]

He’s at worst a very good third pairing defenseman and has had stretches of looking like a good top 4 defenseman. Anyone wanting to sell low on him now is out to lunch and not to be taken seriously.

 

[Maplebeasts]

We won’t miss him.

Low hockey IQ, folds under any serious forecheck, zero poise. Sure he can skate in open ice, which he doesn’t see in tight games, but mostly he’s a mirage. I’ve seen enough, he’s a 6 at best, and a 8 on a cup level D. People have over hyped him for years, and we see the same things that commentators said were the concern in the AHL, LOW HOCKEY IQ. Looks good in spurts, but has confdicence issues as well, regresses every time.

He was a tire fire in the playoffs too, literally made Boosh look like a relative first pass specialist. Sportsnet called it “ he passes the puck to make it someone else’s problem”.

Literally every point outside of him regressing in the playoffs this year is just patently wrong and backed up by any stat out there. I’d rather just give him a 1-2 year deal for cheap and see how he plays under a coach that gives him leash when he plays well.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Seems to elevate his game when there are injuries. He was solid when Reilly was out last year.

 

[Hellcat]

Like Stralman Liljegren will be traded.

It is possible he may not be qualified, they have to submit QO's by noon today, we will know if Lilliy is a Leaf or a UFA pretty soon

 

[FiveHoleo]

I still don't understand why people fawn over this guy. We have the best forwards in the world on our team, they don't need Bobby Orr passing them the puck to generate offence. Liljegren is soft as butter and doesn't defend the front of the net with any urgency whatsoever, so the fact he can pass the puck and skate it out doesn't really help the team as much as his easy access to the front of the net hinders it. There's some team out there (cough, Pittsburgh) who probably over values the "skill" of Liljegren from the blue line, let them pay him to be a soft defender with reasonable underlying numbers. I want a guy who can protect the front of the net. Liljegren isn't Makar or Hughes, where the offensive output overshadows the defensive deficiencies, he's another Nikita Zaitsev sucking up cap dollars for modest offensive production and garbage protection. Trade him already.

 

[Hellcat]

I still don't understand why people fawn over this guy. We have the best forwards in the world on our team, they don't need Bobby Orr passing them the puck to generate offence. Liljegren is soft as butter and doesn't defend the front of the net with any urgency whatsoever, so the fact he can pass the puck and skate it out doesn't really help the team as much as his easy access to the front of the net hinders it. There's some team out there (cough, Pittsburgh) who probably over values the "skill" of Liljegren from the blue line, let them pay him to be a soft defender with reasonable underlying numbers. I want a guy who can protect the front of the net. Liljegren isn't Makar or Hughes, where the offensive output overshadows the defensive deficiencies, he's another Nikita Zaitsev sucking up cap dollars for modest offensive production and garbage protection. Trade him already.

To your point about having the best forwards, if I'm a dman, I'm getting the puck and getting rid of the puck to my forwards as quickly as I can, it's almost a gimmie to have 40 points, if you dish the puck to Willie, Mitch or AM as quick as you can. I will say this he has a 5 to 10 games a year where he looks every bit a 1st rounder, then he follows that up with, a why the F is he on this team performance.

 

[therealkoho]

Exactly, and Keefe didn't exactly show the ability to develop young players at the NHL level.

Lily has played what, just over 2 full seasons worth of games? I'd rather see what he can do under a new voice than trading him away and creating another hole.

196 NHL Games with limited usage isn't conducive to full development. 300 games is what people at the pro level say is needed to see what it is you really have.

I remember when a lot and I mean a lot of people were ready to give him a top 4 spot on the Leafs when he was just getting into his 2nd Marlie camp and now that he's had limited usage in 3 seasons he's now a bust of monumental portions that plays scared.

No one that plays scared stays on an NHL roster, no one.

 

[rumman]

196 NHL Games with limited usage isn't conducive to full development. 300 games is what people at the pro level say is needed to see what it is you really have.

I remember when a lot and I mean a lot of people were ready to give him a top 4 spot on the Leafs when he was just getting into his 2nd Marlie camp and now that he's had limited usage in 3 seasons he's now a bust of monumental portions that plays scared.

No one that plays scared stays on an NHL roster, no one.

400 games and you qualify for a NHL pension, if he isn’t the guy now, he’ll never be the guy………..