Confirmed with Link: Lightning sign Jake Guentzel | 7 years, $9M AAV

[LightningStrikes]

This kid better perform.

 

[AHockeyFanatic]

I mean... we're losing Stamkos. So we picked up a #1 winger whose best season was roughly what Stamkos just did.

I like the Guentzel signing a lot. And yeah, in general, he's a better player than Stamkos. But this only makes us a little better than last year so far.

It makes us significantly better on 5v5 and maybe slightly worse on the PP. Stamkos doesn’t have the legs anymore and outside of his 40 goal season we may not be even having this conversation about his contract. As a fan you have to seperate emotions from the business side, if Stamkos had ANY value at 5v5 he’d still be here.

Losing him still sucks don’t get me wrong but I feel like this is the best way to keep the team competitive long-term. Paying aging vets has been tried a ton in the past and it never works.

I think the Sergachev trade was a masterclass move. He dumped the two players we needed to move / get rid of and our defense got better.

I’m really optimistic about the team and while Im not a season ticket holder Ill probably get a couple ticket packs for the upcoming season to show my support.

 

[Sky04]

How are we marginally better? You guys saw the effects of Duclair at the deadline with this stale offense and Guentzel is way better. McDonagh drastically improves the defense which was the biggest issue last season so yes well be scoring more and letting less in, do you guys have any idea how even a 15-20 goal swing one way actually impacts a season?

 

[BeingTheThunder]

Could be worse.. we could've tied ourselves to Matt Dumba for a few years at $3.75M AAV.. LOL

How are we marginally better? You guys saw the effects of Duclair at the deadline with this stale offense and Guentzel is way better. McDonagh drastically improves the defense which was the biggest issue last season so yes well be scoring more and letting less in, do you guys have any idea how even a 15-20 goal swing one way actually impacts a season?

Most importantly, I fully expect Vasilevskiy to be back to the Vasy that earned him the massive contract he previously landed. The better defense in front of him is going to help that happen too...

 

[RMF5630]

It makes us significantly better on 5v5 and maybe slightly worse on the PP. Stamkos doesn’t have the legs anymore and outside of his 40 goal season we may not be even having this conversation about his contract. As a fan you have to seperate emotions from the business side, if Stamkos had ANY value at 5v5 he’d still be here.

Losing him still sucks don’t get me wrong but I feel like this is the best way to keep the team competitive long-term. Paying aging vets has been tried a ton in the past and it never works.

I think the Sergachev trade was a masterclass move. He dumped the two players we needed to move / get rid of and our defense got better.

I’m really optimist about the team and while Im not a season ticket holder Ill probably get a couple ticket packs for the upcoming season to show my support.

Guentzel has a track record of scoring during the regular season and coming up big in playoffs. If TB wasn't going to re-sign, they should have moved him before the trade deadline. I don't get that...

 

[Stammertime91]

It makes us significantly better on 5v5 and maybe slightly worse on the PP. Stamkos doesn’t have the legs anymore and outside of his 40 goal season we may not be even having this conversation about his contract. As a fan you have to seperate emotions from the business side, if Stamkos had ANY value at 5v5 he’d still be here.

Losing him still sucks don’t get me wrong but I feel like this is the best way to keep the team competitive long-term. Paying aging vets has been tried a ton in the past and it never works.

I think the Sergachev trade was a masterclass move. He dumped the two players we needed to move / get rid of and our defense got better.

I’m really optimistic about the team and while Im not a season ticket holder Ill probably get a couple ticket packs for the upcoming season to show my support.

I don't think Stamkos is better than Guentzel at this point and welcome Jake to the team but the discrediting and short memories of Stamkos are f***ing nonsensical here and on reddit. Like holy shit levels.

Even strength goals
Guentzel: 25
Stamkos: 21

He's had three straight +20 goal seasons at ES yet he's getting the blame? He would've resigned for less than tweedle f***ing dee Cirelli at 6.25M. He's riding shotgun with one of the most vanilla ass centers that has such an aura around him in cirelli. -21 with elite Selke cirelli, but +24 two seasons ago.

He doesn't have the legs? Doesn't need to. Shit, Kucherov isn't built off speed. The problem is Brisebois failed to complement Stamkos' game with a 2C/2LW playmaker. Not to mention, who's cashing in 15-20 on the PP in his place?

You'd think Stamkos was on one leg, with one eye and score 28 on the powerplay with 2 at even strength with the way some of you blindly make shit up.

My problem is not a Guentzel or Stamkos problem. It's a we let him go in a very high risk situation that anybody currently on this roster or brought in through a trade is equal or better on ice. That's not the entire picture though as these guys are human. This was a good shock wave in player relations for current and future Tampa players with Brisebois at the helm.

 

[bov]

McDonagh and Guentzel in, Sergachev and Stamkos out. Hard to say anything has changed in a significant way in terms of being better or worse. Granted, Moser could be the guy that tips the scales, and Geekie will bring value at some point down the road.

Still one or two pieces away from being true cup contenders though. Can that be done with the little cap space remaining?

 

[LightningStrikes]

We can’t expect better results without change - and I’m not talking about “do we put Jeannot or Eyssimont on the 3rd line” kinda change. This team got bounced in the first round for two seasons in a row now while half-assing both regular seasons.

So instead of tweaking the bottom-6 and 3rd D pairing a bit and just yolo’ing it for a 3rd time while crying about the stagnant salary cap JBB has decided to pull the trigger.

Whether Guentzel over Stamkos and/or McDonagh over Sergachev is the answer is to be seen. But we can’t sit here and complain that JBB didn’t try this time.

(That said, JBB could and probably should have handled the Stamkos situation better. From the few insider reports we get contract talks hadn’t even started until after the playoffs. Coincidentally at the same time when JBB gave his exit interview suggesting that Stamkos would or at least should return. But oh well that’s history now.)

 

[RMF5630]

I don't think Stamkos is better than Guentzel at this point and welcome Jake to the team but the discrediting and short memories of Stamkos are f***ing nonsensical here and on reddit. Like holy shit levels.

Even strength goals
Guentzel: 25
Stamkos: 21

He's had three straight +20 goal seasons at ES yet he's getting the blame? He would've resigned for less than tweedle f***ing dee Cirelli at 6.25M. He's riding shotgun with one of the most vanilla ass centers that has such an aura around him in cirelli. -21 with elite Selke cirelli, but +24 two seasons ago.

He doesn't have the legs? Doesn't need to. Shit, Kucherov isn't built off speed. The problem is Brisebois failed to complement Stamkos' game with a 2C/2LW playmaker. Not to mention, who's cashing in 15-20 on the PP in his place?

You'd think Stamkos was on one leg, with one eye and score 28 on the powerplay with 2 at even strength with the way some of you blindly make shit up.

My problem is not a Guentzel or Stamkos problem. It's a we let him go in a very high risk situation that anybody currently on this roster or brought in through a trade is equal or better on ice. That's not the entire picture though as these guys are human. This was a good shock wave in player relations for current and future Tampa players with Brisebois at the helm.

Bottomline is that when they didn't extend him it was going to be tough to resign. At that point, it was all on Stamkos to accept a low offer or walk. If Gretzky, Messier, Howe, Esposito, and others can leave, then Stamkos can go too. At this point in the career, it is up to the player to take a hometown discount, be uncompetitive or walk.

He is a good guy, my wife took care of him in the hospital several years ago. He signed an autograph for her. But, after last year TB needed to shake up, not just patch.

 

[Rschmitz]

The amount of pressure that's going to be on Guentzel to replace Stamkos will be enormous

 

[Stammertime91]

Bottomline is that when they didn't extend him it was going to be tough to resign. At that point, it was all on Stamkos to accept a low offer or walk. If Gretzky, Messier, Howe, Esposito, and others can leave, then Stamkos can go too. At this point in the career, it is up to the player to take a hometown discount, be uncompetitive or walk.

He is a good guy, my wife took care of him in the hospital several years ago. He signed an autograph for her. But, after last year TB needed to shake up, not just patch.

He's taken a hometown discount already and if it wasn't for him, we'd probably be on one cup from 2004. Not to mention he was willing to make it work again. 8M isn't what he would've signed here, that's not how that works. The issue is 3M as an offer isn't just insulting, it's f***ing ludicrous to think that's fair. 21 ES goals to 25 ES goals. One guy is 34, one guy is 30 by opening night. One guy was offered 3M, one guy offered 9M and signed. To think he shouldn't have gotten at least 5M here is crazy. Go back and look at people's predictions months ago.

People were saying he's not signing for beans under 4M, he'll command too much. That came true. People's evaluation of him for the minimum 5M ranged up to 9M. Anything under 5M was hopeful and rested on him working with us. Rumor has it, that was indeed the number and stamkos said he did all he could but you look at yourself in the mirror, know your worth, have self respect. Brisebois went under and didn't move from a number that was ridiculously low.

That's f***ing insane. You don't shake things up at the expense of being an inferior team. We wouldn't have this conversation if it was rumored he was asking for 7 or 8M from us. That's justifiable for Brisebois to pass on. It was an easy move to make in resigning him for so many intangibles and based on production that Brisebois went with the arrogant ass route and gave the most limp dick effort to resign a 16 year player.

 

[NJBolt]

Only modern day examples of a longtime NHL greats staying with just one team is Ovi and Crosby (Malkin?).

 

[dechire]

I really don't get the complaints that we're only "marginally better" after these off-season moves. This team is in cap hell. We aren't going to magically fill every hole with 5 bucks and a stick of chewing gum. Under the circumstances, a marginal improvement is a huge improvement.

 

[RMF5630]

Only modern day examples of a longtime NHL greats staying with just one team is Ovi and Crosby (Malkin?).

I get it. Yzerman stayed with DET, did he get Stamkos his last contract? Can't remember, would make sense.

And how have they fared? Overchkin is a shell of who he was and WSH had to go on a hot streak to make the playoffs. Pitt, didn't even make the playoffs.

 

[AHockeyFanatic]

I don't think Stamkos is better than Guentzel at this point and welcome Jake to the team but the discrediting and short memories of Stamkos are f***ing nonsensical here and on reddit. Like holy shit levels.

Even strength goals
Guentzel: 25
Stamkos: 21

He's had three straight +20 goal seasons at ES yet he's getting the blame? He would've resigned for less than tweedle f***ing dee Cirelli at 6.25M. He's riding shotgun with one of the most vanilla ass centers that has such an aura around him in cirelli. -21 with elite Selke cirelli, but +24 two seasons ago.

He doesn't have the legs? Doesn't need to. Shit, Kucherov isn't built off speed. The problem is Brisebois failed to complement Stamkos' game with a 2C/2LW playmaker. Not to mention, who's cashing in 15-20 on the PP in his place?

You'd think Stamkos was on one leg, with one eye and score 28 on the powerplay with 2 at even strength with the way some of you blindly make shit up.

My problem is not a Guentzel or Stamkos problem. It's a we let him go in a very high risk situation that anybody currently on this roster or brought in through a trade is equal or better on ice. That's not the entire picture though as these guys are human. This was a good shock wave in player relations for current and future Tampa players with Brisebois at the helm.

No one was discrediting Stamkos if you had actually read my post. Hyperbolic and emotional response, I'll be more direct next time. Guentzel is younger and better, end of discussion.

I'm not going to read into what "may" have happened in negotiation talks, I watched the Stamkos interview, he's fine. This immediate rush to condemn a GM for not signing their dinosaur all-star the way that fans wanted is so immature and childish, it's a business, unless you're sitting in the room with them the perception of what happened or how it happened is just you guessing.

The 5v5 skill is directly correlated to keeping the player, Stamkos just doesn't have that 5V5 skill the way he used to, if you don't understand that then you don't watch the Lightning enough. In fact I guarantee you that was one of the main reasons he wasn't offered a longer contract, JBB knows what he has in Stamkos and what he doesn't.

Could JBB have signed him to a 4x5, maybe but it didn't happen so why worry about it? Enjoy the team and the current moves being made.

 

[RMF5630]

He's taken a hometown discount already and if it wasn't for him, we'd probably be on one cup from 2004. Not to mention he was willing to make it work again. 8M isn't what he would've signed here, that's not how that works. The issue is 3M as an offer isn't just insulting, it's f***ing ludicrous to think that's fair. 21 ES goals to 25 ES goals. One guy is 34, one guy is 30 by opening night. One guy was offered 3M, one guy offered 9M and signed. To think he shouldn't have gotten at least 5M here is crazy. Go back and look at people's predictions months ago.

People were saying he's not signing for beans under 4M, he'll command too much. That came true. People's evaluation of him for the minimum 5M ranged up to 9M. Anything under 5M was hopeful and rested on him working with us. Rumor has it, that was indeed the number and stamkos said he did all he could but you look at yourself in the mirror, know your worth, have self respect. Brisebois went under and didn't move from a number that was ridiculously low.

That's f***ing insane. You don't shake things up at the expense of being an inferior team. We wouldn't have this conversation if it was rumored he was asking for 7 or 8M from us. That's justifiable for Brisebois to pass on. It was an easy move to make in resigning him for so many intangibles and based on production that Brisebois went with the arrogant ass route and gave the most limp dick effort to resign a 16 year player.

Writing was on the wall when there was no extension. As you said he did it once. If you are surprised it is on you. There is no deserve in professional sports. It is what is your value now for the money. Guentzel gives similar to better performance at 4 years younger. That is the bottomline.

Are the Lightning better now than after the draft? I say yes.

As for Stamkos he just signed a 32M dollar contract, I am not crying a river for him...

 

[Sky04]

I don't think Stamkos is better than Guentzel at this point and welcome Jake to the team but the discrediting and short memories of Stamkos are f***ing nonsensical here and on reddit. Like holy shit levels.

Even strength goals
Guentzel: 25
Stamkos: 21

He's had three straight +20 goal seasons at ES yet he's getting the blame? He would've resigned for less than tweedle f***ing dee Cirelli at 6.25M. He's riding shotgun with one of the most vanilla ass centers that has such an aura around him in cirelli. -21 with elite Selke cirelli, but +24 two seasons ago.

He doesn't have the legs? Doesn't need to. Shit, Kucherov isn't built off speed. The problem is Brisebois failed to complement Stamkos' game with a 2C/2LW playmaker. Not to mention, who's cashing in 15-20 on the PP in his place?

You'd think Stamkos was on one leg, with one eye and score 28 on the powerplay with 2 at even strength with the way some of you blindly make shit up.

My problem is not a Guentzel or Stamkos problem. It's a we let him go in a very high risk situation that anybody currently on this roster or brought in through a trade is equal or better on ice. That's not the entire picture though as these guys are human. This was a good shock wave in player relations for current and future Tampa players with Brisebois at the helm.

They've given him a dozen players to work with over the years, at some point and especially at his price tag he's been problem. He can't find chemistry with anyone after 5 minutes. we're acting like Stamkos is way more impactful than he actually is on the ice, he does a whole lot of nothing most of the time, needs to be spoonfed in the perfect situation to produce and even then has a ton of flaws in his game.

Nashville is going to be in a rude awakening if they think they're getting an 8M player. At his price tag he should've been the driver not "riding shotgun" and being one of the worst defensive players on the team. I wanted him back for cheap but I see where JBB is coming from, didn't think he'd actually do it and let emotions prevail but he made the calculated move, the case against Stamkos presents itself to anyone actually watching him.

 

[Stammertime91]

No one was discrediting Stamkos if you had actually read my post. Hyperbolic and emotional response, I'll be more direct next time. Guentzel is younger and better, end of discussion.

I'm not going to read into what "may" have happened in negotiation talks, I watched the Stamkos interview, he's fine. This immediate rush to condemn a GM for not signing their dinosaur all-star the way that fans wanted is so immature and childish, it's a business, unless you're sitting in the room with them the perception of what happened or how it happened is just you guessing.

The 5v5 skill is directly correlated to keeping the player, Stamkos just doesn't have that 5V5 skill the way he used to, if you don't understand that then you don't watch the Lightning enough. In fact I guarantee you that was one of the main reasons he wasn't offered a longer contract, JBB knows what he has in Stamkos and what he doesn't.

Could JBB have signed him to a 4x5, maybe but it didn't happen so why worry about it? Enjoy the team and the current moves being made.

Dinosaur all star had 40 goals. I wonder how you will process the Hedman extension by that logic. It would be immature and childish if Stamkos was crippled and struggling to hit 20, but he's not. He's outscoring Cirelli and almost on par with Guentzel 5v5. The issue isn't Guentzel vs Stamkos, it's a matter of resigning a legit top 6 player, which is what we now lack with cap space that could've afforded him.

Yes, let's enjoy the team and current moves being made like signing Ylonen. So much enjoyment.

They've given him a dozen players to work with over the years, at some point and especially at his price tag he's been problem. He can't find chemistry with anyone after 5 minutes. we're acting like Stamkos is way more impactful than he actually is on the ice, he does a whole lot of nothing most of the time, needs to be spoonfed in the perfect situation to produce and even then has a ton of flaws in his game.

Nashville is going to be in a rude awakening if they think they're getting an 8M player. At his price tag he should've been the driver not "riding shotgun" and being one of the worst defensive players on the team. I wanted him back for cheap but I see where JBB is coming from, didn't think he'd actually do it and let emotions prevail but he made the calculated move, the case against Stamkos presents itself to anyone actually watching him.

Total strawman. I'm not saying he's worth 8M at all. I'm totally fine if that's what he was wanting here and we held firm. There's no indication it was. 5M? Yeah, absolutely. With the cap going up and the excuse made for Cirelli, Guentzel, etc that in "a few years it won't matter" that people like to use, it applies to him as well.

 

[Rschmitz]

I really don't get the complaints that we're only "marginally better" after these off-season moves. This team is in cap hell. We aren't going to magically fill every hole with 5 bucks and a stick of chewing gum. Under the circumstances, a marginal improvement is a huge improvement.

Eh, it's not complaints that we are marginally better, it's pointing out the fact that we are only marginally better.

Also, signing Stamkos for 4m makes this team a hell of a lot better

 

[Master P]

Eh, it's not complaints that we are marginally better, it's pointing out the fact that we are only marginally better.

Also, signing Stamkos for 4m makes this team a hell of a lot better

Was that 4 million offer ever verified? Because I have a hard time believing he was only asking for 4.

 

[Rschmitz]

Was that 4 million offer ever verified? Because I have a hard time believing he was only asking for 4.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/tampa-bay-lightning/latest-news/lightnings-latest-offer-for-steven-stamkos-revealed

Whatever you wanna call that

 

[Master P]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/tampa-bay-lightning/latest-news/lightnings-latest-offer-for-steven-stamkos-revealed

View attachment 890934

Whatever you wanna call that

Yeah, thats what I was referring to. That number was just a guess based off Killorn.

 

[Rschmitz]

Yeah, thats what I was referring to. That number was just a guess based off Killorn.

Did he say that? Usually when insiders like Lebrun "speculate" it's to protect themselves from deniability. We will probably never get a verified number.

 

[Master P]

Did he say that? Usually when insiders like Lebrun "speculate" it's to protect themselves from deniability. We will probably never get a verified number.

 

[Master P]