GDT: Lightning @ Devils - 6:45 PM - MSG

[Hisch13r]

Your view of the games is pretty fitting to mine. We seem to agree there.

For the last sentence, I don’t really know lol. I’ll probably be back to my old optimist self tomorrow lol, but right now I’m just very frustrated with how this team plays. I just don’t understand it and watching tonight it just hit me I think. They’re just not playing good hockey and I’m kind of tired of making excuses for them. It comes from a place where I KNOW they have the talent, I know they have the skill, they just never seem to deliver. It’s so f***ing frustrating to me lol. I have a certain breaking point with the team. I’ve mentioned it a few times but last year was the game in Vancouver. I knew after that game that they were cooked. That game pissed me off to no end. I guess this year that game was tonight.

I hope they can pick it up, I’m confident they will, but if they don’t clean it up, we’re in trouble.

I think for me it was probably the double whammy of being shut out by the f***ing Wings and then losing 2-1 to the Jackets the following game. I had already been thinking they looked like shit but figured they'd probably turn it around at some point until then. After those 2 games though they had the Sabres game where they blew them out. I remember saying it there was going to be a turning point it was that. They followed that up with a couple of wins until that f***ing pathetic SJ game. That was the absolute final straw for me and was the game before the Vancouver game. That SJ game was the one that fully convinced me their issues were definitely deeper than just being the goalies.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I think for me it was probably the double whammy of being shut out by the f***ing Wings and then losing 2-1 to the Jackets the following game. I had already been thinking they looked like shit but figured they'd probably turn it around at some point until then. After those 2 games though they had the Sabres game where they blew them out. I remember saying it there was going to be a turning point it was that. They followed that up with a couple of wins until that f***ing pathetic SJ game. That was the absolute final straw for me and was the game before the Vancouver game. That SJ game was the one that fully convinced me their issues were definitely deeper than just being the goalies.

I was in full optimist mode until the horrendous showing in Washington after the Stadium Game.


This year I have a much shorter leash. I will be on their ass when the calendar hits December if things are not headed where I think they should be.

Currently 5.5 on the Danometer

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I think the first WTF for me last year was the Sharks but looking at their schedule, they won the next 5 out of 6? I think the true this team is ass for me came when they lost to Anaheim, Philly and the Oilers at home. Definitely the first two.

I think for me it was probably the double whammy of being shut out by the f***ing Wings and then losing 2-1 to the Jackets the following game. I had already been thinking they looked like shit but figured they'd probably turn it around at some point until then. After those 2 games though they had the Sabres game where they blew them out. I remember saying it there was going to be a turning point it was that. They followed that up with a couple of wins until that f***ing pathetic SJ game. That was the absolute final straw for me and was the game before the Vancouver game. That SJ game was the one that fully convinced me their issues were definitely deeper than just being the goalies.

This jackass team won the next 5 out of 6 after that, they're so f***ing bipolar man

Holy f*** at the beginning of March last year, crazy thing is if they fired Lindy earlier and made a goalie trade they probably sneak in but probably got cranked by the Rags

 

[Hisch13r]

I was in full optimist mode until the horrendous showing in Washington after the Stadium Game.


This year I have a much shorter leash. I will be on their ass when the calendar hits December if things are not headed where I think they should be.

Currently 5.5 on the Danometer

lol I was so far gone at that point. I was barely even watching anymore. I stopped watching regularly around Christmas. I don't know if I watched even a handful of games after Jack got hurt against the Hawks after the New Year. I probably watched around the same if not more of Lenni and Gritsyuk's games last year than I did the Devils

 

[guitarguyvic]

It's not reductionist BS. I have no idea how a team forms an identity, but all the winning teams do it, apparently. Can you pinpoint Colorado's identity? How about Vegas? Tampa? Florida? These are all really good teams and the last 4 to win the Cup. They score goals and they play good defense, and they have some physical players, and some not-so-physical players. I'm sure every player on these teams could tell you what their identity was. I don't know that because I'm not on the team, but it all amounts to the same idea. None of these teams are trying to reinvent anything.

Oh for FFS now I have to spell out every cup team's identity for you, just so you can dismiss those too? I'm not wasting my time. It's also funny that you only point to Stanley Cup winning teams. I guess Carolina's identity of being a physically punishing team with the heaviest forecheck in the league and who absolutely dominates possession is just a figment of our imagination, and doesn't count since they didn't win the Cup.

It absolutely is a goalpost shift. Lines can have good chemistry on teams that don't have identity (i.e. that don't win).

Yeah so what? I didn't say chemistry on one line automatically means you have an identity. But having an identity does require chemistry. This is a very obvious logical fallacy you're using here.

How was speed part of their defense? Severson and Marino are above-average skaters - I wouldn't describe anyone else on that blueline as being fast, and indeed Brendan Smith is probably slow. I do not understand how speed is an identity but okay, you just left out the part about how they want to force the opposition into turnovers via quicker skating and then transitioning the puck up ice.

? You literally answered your own question at the end. No idea what more you want here.

Jamie Langenbrunner played the fewest minutes of the 3 over the 3 seasons between 2008 and 2010. He played 2961 minutes 5v5. What percentage of those would you guess he played with Zach and Travis? And sure shifts bleed over and whatnot and there's the end of served penalties and so on, so obviously something like 90% isn't possible, that's not how hockey works. But what percentage would you guess?

That's not the relevant question. The relevant question would be, is there another winger who played more minutes with Zach and Travis than Jamie did? If there is please feel free to correct me here. Even worst case scenario where 2009 is the only year they played together consistently, that's still more chemistry and consistency than any of our top forwards have shown as a group for the last four years.

Timo has not had a full season here where he wasn't injured for half of it. Travis Green had the bad Jack almost exclusively and then not at all. So basically, you have one coach who didn't stick with those pairings.

Somewhat fair points, so like so much else with this team, this should be the year we see things stick and some consistent chemistry right? I'm certainly hoping for it. Let's see what happens.

It's not really the case, either. How does Nico Hischier not fit that? How does Timo Meier not fit that?

Nico fits it. I would not say that Timo is good defensively. So that's 1 guy in the top six.

Oh, okay. Wow, what a list they've got, incredible they manage to find their guy every time. It's not reductive - Tampa looks for good players first and foremost. Yes, they look for speed, and yeah, they like grit.

Who said they find their guy every time?

lol, then why did you bring it up at the beginning of the post? There's reason for you to bring it up but not me, got it.

Being intentionally obtuse here, OK. I'm citing the last time the Devils had an identity. The time period is incidental. I'm not interested in this team being the same team from the 90's. I think you know the difference, but sure, pretend otherwise.

I scoff at the notion of identity because I do not have access to the Devils' locker room or their coaching staff. Sure, teams have to understand how to play as teams, to trust that their teammate will be in the place they expect them to be. But for me, yes, it is just a nebulous ascription to winning, you've gotten that exactly correct. Losing teams don't have identity, that's their problem. If they had it, they would've won. But they didn't, so they don't.

You could have reduced your entire response to just this paragraph. There are losing teams that have an identity, because being more talented than the opposition is still required to win too. The Flyers have an identity even though they've been losing the last couple of seasons, for example.

 

[Hisch13r]

I think the first WTF for me last year was the Sharks but looking at their schedule, they won the next 5 out of 6? I think the true this team is ass for me came when they lost to Anaheim, Philly and the Oilers at home. Definitely the first two.



This jackass team won the next 5 out of 6 after that, they're so f***ing bipolar man

Holy f*** at the beginning of March last year, crazy thing is if they fired Lindy earlier and made a goalie trade they probably sneak in but probably got cranked by the Rags

I'm much happier they mostly went down with the ship rather than trying to salvage the season. Silayev>>>>>getting f***ing rocked in the first round

 

[guitarguyvic]

Your view of the games is pretty fitting to mine. We seem to agree there.

For the last sentence, I don’t really know lol. I’ll probably be back to my old optimist self tomorrow lol, but right now I’m just very frustrated with how this team plays. I just don’t understand it and watching tonight it just hit me I think. They’re just not playing good hockey and I’m kind of tired of making excuses for them. It comes from a place where I KNOW they have the talent, I know they have the skill, they just never seem to deliver. It’s so f***ing frustrating to me lol. I have a certain breaking point with the team. I’ve mentioned it a few times but last year was the game in Vancouver. I knew after that game that they were cooked. That game pissed me off to no end. I guess this year that game was tonight.

I hope they can pick it up, I’m confident they will, but if they don’t clean it up, we’re in trouble.

Here's where my headspace is at. I'm at peace with whatever happens because to me this is the final year where we get an answer one way or the other with this group. If they can't manage to stop the shitty, immature, lazy play even with a legit good coach and a better supporting cast of two way players, then that's it. We know what they are at this point.

It's interesting your statement about knowing they have talent. I mean yeah we know our top guys can put up points. But that's the thing - there's more to hockey than that. And those things should be considered "talent" too, right? So if they can't execute the parts of the game that lead to team success, are they really as talented as we thought?

 

[billingtons ghost]

Listen. I get the doomerism. I will be there in a months time if things don’t change.

But Id let up a little on that doomer gas pedal, for now.


Basically proving my point in the reverse fashion

Lots of narratives can be set on both sides at this early junction

But bottomline is we are in week 3 of the season. Lets everyone pull on the reigns a bit

It's just growing pains, I think. A few bag skates, some clarification from Keefe on how to play the system, some of our studs getting going.

If we get Pesce back to replace Misyul, and we still suck - well, that's a bummer.

Adding Luke to this mess might actually make things worse honestly, as Siegs/Kovacevec has to be a thing, I think, since they've been our best.

It's really up to the forwards to not be such lazy garbage in coverage and in controlling the puck up the ice. We can't have Hedman doing whatever he pleases all game without someone slowing him down, and we can't have guys just wandering around out there.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Shit both the Leafs and Lightning walked all over us when they were on the 2nd half of a b2b. We on the other hand got killed by Carolina on our b2b. I said in the Carolina thread I really don't think b2b's matter this early. Guys shouldn't really be tired yet. All of those games were just good team beating up on not so good team.

That's an actual question. I can't ever say that this team has seemed to be dominatingly athletic. I thought it was Lindy's country club but I really wonder how focused training camp is if they occasionally look gassed after a long shift. This isn't Lou's 30+ vet group out there, and I don't get why we aren't skating circles around teams in the third period.

Other than the a couple of shifts - they didn't really look to be breaking a sweat out there.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I'm not even sure if defensive positional play is the thing that's most glaring. The bad habit I see creeping up from years past is the lack of being strong on the puck, the lack of puck control, and the impatience with repeatedly trying to skate out of the zone without giving proper support for the breakout. It's amazing how often they get stripped of the puck because they hang onto it too long either trying to be a one man show in getting it out of the zone or because they're waiting on support. It's like as soon as the opposition establish any kind of forecheck they have no idea how to relieve the pressure, they get stripped, or muscled into a turnover, or make a bad pass, etc. It seems so easy for the opposing team to just out muscle and outwork them for the puck. When they don't have the puck they do these flyby's where they lazily attempt but fail to strip the puck carrier leaving him to just skate right by them now open. Then on top of that when there's a stick battle for it in the middle of the ice it's seemingly the opposition that comes away with it on their stick the majority of the time. It's like they're not willing to really battle for it.

The other bad habit that I've only seen pop up in the last two games is the odd man rushes against. It wasn't an issue for the first seven games or so, but now all of a sudden it's happening again.

The other night Bratt did a drop pass at his own blue line. Of course it immediately led to an egregious turnover and goal, and you knew it would as soon as it happened. You don't do shit like that in the NHL. A veteran player should not be making decisions like that. It's just dumb shit. Like this is not how intelligent, mature hockey teams play.

 

[NJ07102]

Boy, Keefe was pissed at the presser. It is still early, so we will have to wait and see for a few more games if they get their acts together and start playing like a responsible team. Somehow, while players and coaching change, the story seems to stay the same. If that continues, it is obvious that the very core is rotten, there cannot be any other explanation. Maybe Nico and Jack don't get along or it's Dougie who leads as a bad example. Something like that.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Boy, Keefe was pissed at the presser. It is still early, so we will have to wait and see for a few more games if they get their acts together and start playing like a responsible team. Somehow, while players and coaching change, the story seems to stay the same. If that continues, it is obvious that the very core is rotten, there cannot be any other explanation. Maybe Nico and Jack don't get along or it's Dougie who leads as a bad example. Something like that.

Yeah good point that could be another explanation other than just not having the talent to execute outside of individual offense. It could be a work ethic issue from top guys, compromising the chemistry and team success.