GDT: Lightning @ Devils - 6:45 PM - MSG

[Devs3cups]

I mean realistically they only have to be a top 3 team in the Metro, I can see 5 teams coming from the Atlantic. The Senators actually look like they might get their shit together this season and they're winning without Ullmark currently. It'll probably come down to us or the Caps since I think Brindamour is the best coach in the league and will get the Canes somef***inghow even though they have Roslovic and Kotkaniemi in their top 6 and well, the Rags are a lock and probably the Cup favorite right now



The Sens were better than us in that game lol, Markstrom stole it

Absolutely no guarantee we're over the Isles or the Caps at the end of the year unfortunately.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Utah also just lost to the Sens 4-0. We beat the Sens not even a week ago. Maybe Utah isn't that good.

Again, this is proving my point I am trying to make. Literally every fanbase in the league can play this game of this, well we beat so and so., etc etc

On here, two factions are hyper focused on either the good or the bad. When in reality, there has been some good and some bad in this very super early point in the season. More level headedness should be pursued at this current juncture of the season.

Why I brought up the good games, because all of sudden those games didn’t happen for some folks.

The people who are taking the glass half full approach sees those good games, but also sees the warts in the bad games.

Theres a middle ground here.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Absolutely no guarantee we're over the Isles or the Caps at the end of the year unfortunately.

If they're not then something massive is happening, that's inexcusable for the amount of resources invested and the timelines of each respective team

 

[Devs3cups]

Again, this is proving my point I am trying to make. Literally every team in the league can play this game of this, well we beat so and so., etc etc

That's exactly what I mean though, everyone can beat everyone. The fact we got 3 points against the Caps means nada.

 

[Hisch13r]

If they're not then something massive is happening, that's inexcusable for the amount of resources invested and the timelines of each respective team

The Isles are still a perfectly solid team. The Caps record last year was inflated but then they went out and made good adds over the offseason. They're also a solid team. There's no guarantee we're better than them with how shit we look

 

[Forge]

12 years without any consistent success is absurd. I can't believe it actually.

Possibly not difficult than being consistently successful over a dozen years!

Yay us! Doing the hard stuff!

 

[Devs3cups]

On here, two factions are hyper focused on either the good or the bad. When in reality, there has been some good and some bad in this very super early point in the season. More level headedness should be pursued at this current juncture of the season.

I agree there's been some good and some bad. Unfortunately, there's been A LOT more bad than good through 9 games so far.

 

[Devs3cups]

The Isles are still a perfectly solid team. The Caps record last year was inflated but then they went out and made good adds over the offseason. They're also a solid team. There's no guarantee we're better than them with how shit we look

If they keep playing like this they'll be battling with the Pens.

 

[Hisch13r]

I agree there's been some good and some bad. Unfortunately, there's been A LOT more bad than good through 9 games so far.

Even the one good game outside beating up on Buffalo they weren't like completely dominant or anything. The first period wasn't good. Good 2nd and smothering 3rd but it was another game where I thought their play with the puck was very sloppy. They've only had one game where they've really took charge from start to finish and then another 2 games where they were in control for most of it. The rest of the games either they've been dominated for most of if not all of the game. Then a couple of games where it was around even.

 

[Devs3cups]

Even the one good game outside beating up on Buffalo they weren't like completely dominant or anything. The first period wasn't good. Good 2nd and smothering 3rd but it was another game where I thought their play with the puck was very sloppy. They've only had one game where they've really took charge from start to finish and then another 2 games where they were in control for most of it. The rest of the games either they've been dominated for most of if not all of the game. Then a couple of games where it was around even.

Bad team is bad

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The Isles are still a perfectly solid team. The Caps record last year was inflated but then they went out and made good adds over the offseason. They're also a solid team. There's no guarantee we're better than them with how shit we look

The Caps defense has gotten better, I still don't buy Lindgren and Thompson as a goalie duo and the forwards are meh but who knows. The Islanders are better now than when we thought Sorokin would be cooked for the rest of his career due to the surgery he got over the summer. Them losing Duclair long term hurts too.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I agree there's been some good and some bad. Unfortunately, there's been A LOT more bad than good through 9 games so far.

A lot more bad?

With my eyetest:

I saw strong games against Buffalo and Utah

Toronto - evenly played game, don’t get me started on this one. People overreacted to this loss. Could have went either way, even with the Devils looking rusty. They were in that game and missed 3/4 open nets. But lets chalk it up in the bad column.

Wash 1 -was a fine road gm, good

Sens - they were fortunate with the posts but it was nice to see them win a game like this on the road. But fine, chalk it up in the bad column

Wash 2 -didn’t watch, but it was bad, but scrapped a point which was nice to see

Tampa - BAD


As I said in a prior post. The doomers and bloomers need to rein it in. The reality is more in the middle between these two factions. I will take this start given the injuries on D, new coach and absurd schedule, and 86 and 63 having slow starts. But now is the time for them to improve and tweak their game over the next month. Because they are not where they want to be, but I think it’s early to be in full doom mode.

 

[Hisch13r]

Bad team is bad

23rd in 5v5 CF%, 21st in xGF%, 19th in SCF%, 18th in HDCF%. We weren't even this bad in any of the Ruff years. Even 2021 with a dog shit roster they posted better numbers. I cannot believe this team is this bad. Those numbers will come up but I really just have no idea how much they'll come up.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

No one's doom and glooming them, it's more so we just expect more from the roster. If not now, when? We fired the coach, we got the goalie even if he was on the older side but he was perfect since he was an elite 5v5 high danger goalie similar to our play style, we changed up the play style of the bottom 6 and added grit which I mean I wasn't a total fan since it was an overcorrection. There's nothing wrong with having expectations with a good roster for once and it would also be pretty upsetting going all in on a core that just doesn't have it. That would push us back even further than we thought

 

[NjDevsRR]

And yes, I am riding a lot of my optimism with Hughes and Pesce back on D and Keefe having another months work with the team.

But I will be a much more hardass on them after November. I still think its way too early for some of the takes.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Absolutely nobody scoffs at that. That is a strawman. I scoff at the notion of team identity being important - obviously the team has to believe they have an identity, but the identity from the outside is functionally 'being good, making the right play, and making the courageous play'. That's it. I don't work for the team so I don't have to care about the ins and outs of how the coaches and GM build a team that does that.

First of all, you absolutely do scoff at it. You're doing it in the very same post by engaging in this reductionist BS. This is the equivalent of saying the key to winning games is to score more than the other team. It says nothing about how you actually accomplish "being good, making the right play", as you say. And if we as fans don't have a clear observation of what this team's identity, that's not a good sign that it's well defined within the organization. Did anyone ever have any trouble pinpointing the identity of the Devils between 1994-2012?

Goalpost shift. Are chemistry and identity the same thing or two different things?

This isn't remote a goalpost shift. Chemistry and identity are linked for obvious reasons. An identity requires everyone being on the same page consistently. How the F can you be on the same page if you don't have chemistry?

The Devils didn't just play with speed in 2023, they also played very solid defense.

Every good team plays solid defense. How did they play solid defense? Speed was part of it. They were also killer in transition. Again because of speed. That was their identity. It's not what they are accomplishing, it's how.

It isn't a big problem at all. ZZPops was together much less than you remember. Keefe discovered, as Ruff did, that Meier and Hughes do not work well together. The Devils never really realized that Kovalchuk and Zajac can't play together either, but that's in the past too.

I don't know what you're talking about regarding ZZ Pops. They were the most consistent line across three seasons and there was a reason for it. Yeah Meier and Hughes don't work together, but it goes beyond that. Who are the guys that really work well together consistently? People will say well Timo + Nico and Jack + Bratt, yet coaches don't seem to stick with those pairings consistently either. Do these guys still produce? Yeah, but I never get the sense they consistently click in a way that lines with great chemistry do. The potential never seems to fully materialize across the long term.

The Devils have targeted a type of player for the last 2 seasons and I don't know how this is not obvious. They want big players who are strong defensively. They have almost exclusively targeted this sort of player - the exceptions are Toffoli and Cotter.

And yet they have a top 6 of the exact opposite type of player. I'm not saying every single one of them should fit the exact same mold, but the dichotomy shouldn't be that striking.

What is Tampa's identity? They're a good team who has strong offensive players and a good defensive system, and a strong goalie. They're well-coached so they know what they're supposed to be doing.

More reductionism. Tampa intentionally targets players that are highly skilled but willing to spear you in the nuts if you f*** with them, who can embarrass you if you want to play a high flying game but also are willing to play lock-down, shot-blocking 1-0 games if needed. Yeah coaching is part of it, because you need someone to demand that identity. The coach is hired by management.

That's where the Devils want to get to. The 90s aren't coming back, the trapping Devils aren't coming back, but Keefe wants to bring back strong defensive play with fewer risks and more simplicity in the Devils' game, and for the first 6 games of the season it looked like he had done that.

This has nothing to do with bringing the 90's back, there's no reason to even bring that up. I agree Keefe is trying that.

Identities aren't built in a day, but I'm sure if the Devils start winning regularly again, they will have found one.

I agree that identities aren't build in a day, but this statement is again you clearly scoffing at the concept of identity by passive aggressively implying that it's just a nebulous ascription to winning, as opposed to an active ingredient in the formula.

 

[Triumph]

23rd in 5v5 CF%, 21st in xGF%, 19th in SCF%, 18th in HDCF%. We weren't even this bad in any of the Ruff years. Even 2021 with a dog shit roster they posted better numbers. I cannot believe this team is this bad. Those numbers will come up but I really just have no idea how much they'll come up.

I think you know better than to draw conclusions about teams from 9 game samples. I think you also know that the worst issues on the roster have been at the bottom end.

 

[Devs3cups]

A lot more bad?

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With my eyetest:

I saw strong games against Buffalo and Utah

Toronto - evenly played game, don’t get me started on this one. People overreacted to this loss. Could have went either way, even with the Devils looking rusty. They were in that game and missed 3/4 open nets. But lets chalk it up in the bad column.

Wash 1 -was a fine road gm, good

Sens - they were fortunate with the posts but it was nice to see them win a game like this on the road. But fine, chalk it up in the bad column

Wash 2 -didn’t watch, but it was bad, but scrapped a point which was nice to see

Tampa - BAD


As I said in a prior post. The doomers and bloomers need to rein it in. The reality is more in the middle between these two factions. I will take this start given the injuries on D, new coach and absurd schedule, and 86 and 63 having slow starts. But now is the time for them to improve and tweak their game over the next month. Because they are not where they want to be, but I think it’s early to be in full doom mode.

Buffalo and Utah were good. Tampa and Carolina were downright bad. The 2 Caps games were pretty bad. Sure they won the first one but they looked bad, same for the 2nd one even if they got a point. The game against the Sens they got dominated, Markstrom and the posts bailed them out. Thats 33% of the games they looked good in my book.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

If the Devils were legit playing well and not getting results, I'd be perfectly fine with them losing a bit before Luke/Pesce came back. People are misconstruing what others are saying.

 

[Hisch13r]

If the Devils were legit playing well and not getting results, I'd be perfectly fine with them losing a bit before Luke/Slavin came back. People are misconstruing what others are saying.

f*** me I wish it was Slavin and not Pesce lol

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Buffalo and Utah were good. Tampa and Carolina were downright bad. The 2 Caps games were pretty bad. Sure they won the first one but they looked bad, same for the 2nd one even if they got a point. The game against the Sens they got dominated, Markstrom and the posts bailed them out. Thats 33% of the games they looked good in my book.

Since people think I'm a "doom and gloomer", I don't think this is the best hockey we've seen from them this year BUT at the same time what you just said is what gives me hesitation.

f*** me I wish it was Slavin and not Pesce lol

I got this Anaheim/Sharks game on my laptop with HF up + Vegas/Kings game on my TV, wires crossed

 

[Hisch13r]

Buffalo and Utah were good. Tampa and Carolina were downright bad. The 2 Caps games were pretty bad. Sure they won the first one but they looked bad, same for the 2nd one even if they got a point. The game against the Sens they got dominated, Markstrom and the posts bailed them out. Thats 33% of the games they looked good in my book.

Yeah I was being generous on the first Caps game and Ottawa saying they were more around even. Numbers wise they were both like exact dead heats but I felt like we were clearly the worse team in both of those games.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Also found Keefes splits in October to be interesting

19-20 6-6-1

20-21 covid

21-22 4-4-1

22-23 4-5-1

23-24 5-3-1

Probably means nothing as October hockey is random for most teams every season.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Both of their goalies are 34. I think the Devils probably have average to slightly above average goaltending, but the goalies might both be finished - it's happened before.

The very obvious point is that the Devils almost certainly do not have elite goaltending this season.

So I see we have the excuse lined up and ready to go for like the fifth year in a row.

You want to talk about shifting goal posts. "Just get goalies who aren't bottom of the barrel" is the refrain we've heard every season. I don't recall there being any concern about them being in their 30's, until now of course when the possibility of our defense making them look like shit again pops up.

 

[Devs3cups]

Since people think I'm a "doom and gloomer", I don't think this is the best hockey we've seen from them this year BUT at the same time what you just said is what gives me hesitation.

Not sure I get what you mean here. In the sense that you don’t agree with the assessments in my post?