Recalled/Assigned: Lias to Hartford, Gettinger called up

[Hunter Gathers]

I didn't see any lack of effort from Lias last year leading up to his demotion, all the while Howden was not scoring for like 79 straight games or whatever. I did see a lack of effort when he went to Hartford, which was problematic.

I also didn't see any effort issues with Lias until recently. Which, again, is why I don't have a problem with him going down. It's everything that has led up to this. Lias should have been ahead of Howden last year, he should have been ahead of him this year. I'm not understanding why he wasn't. The lack of effort came later. Him going to Hartford is fine. I just don't think he was put in a position to succeed. That he then showed poor effort is on him. But it's not all on him.

It's very clearly a behind the scenes issue as well. We aren't privy to everything. I think that Quinn's comments were quite telling.

 

[McRanger]

Because, like it or not, effort matters. One guy is clearly giving it and one guy either isn't or can't.

That's actually debatable, but either way effort without some proficiency at execution means absolutely nothing. Skating really really REALLY hard around aimlessly is the hockey player equivalent of me typing really really REALLY fast at my job and calling it effort.

And for the 20th time (just to avoid having to say it yet again), I feel that Howden should also be in the AHL.

Howden should have been in the AHL a month ago so Lias could suck or not suck on the 3rd line and then we wouldn't have to debate any of this.

 

[TheDirtyH]

And for the 20th time (just to avoid having to say it yet again), I feel that Howden should also be in the AHL.

So what is your issue with people's takes that Lias has been treated seemingly unfairly or held to a different standard?

If Howden should be in the AHL, but he isn't because of effort... Then Lias is sent down for effort. Didn't Quinn say he needed to play quicker?

Quinn on Lias:

There’s gotta be consistency to his game…one of the things that he’s got to continue to work on is playing faster, I know that that’s a simple answer but a lot of time it is THE answer for young players. When they ask you what do I need to do, you’ve got to play fast, you’ve got to be a little bit quicker, play from one play to the next. It’s not just skating fast, it’s playing fast and I think the more you play, the better chance you have to do that, I certainly understand that, but from a playing standpoint, he’s got to play a little bit faster. I thought there were time he did that, and that’s when he was effective, and I thought there were times where he wasn’t playing quite fast enough…and he’s done an awful lot of good things, in the last year plus, and again, it’s a 21-year old playing in the American Hockey League to gain some confidence, play a little bit more, touch the puck more, to put him in a better position to have success.

No mention of effort...

But I do see one here, oddly enough:

He’s a helluva player. We’ve really needed a certain kind of player to add into our organization. This guy, his work ethic and his ability, you’re gonna love him, the fans will love him. He’s got the combination of the grit and ability we’ve been looking for. He’s not a dynamic scorer, he’s a dynamic player in the way that he plays, he is just so driven, driving the net, forechecking. finishing checks, and he can make a pass, make a play.

--Gordie Clark on Lias

 

[nyr2k2]

It's very clearly a behind the scenes issue as well. We aren't privy to everything. I think that Quinn's comments were quite telling.

IDK, it seems like the "behind the scenes" stuff usually comes to the forefront eventually. Or, even barring specifics, it's at least reported that "it's a thing" like with DeAngelo.

I guess we'll have to rely on "behind the scenes", though, because what we've actually seen hasn't really made a ton of sense. I mean shit, even with the Pionk over DeAngelo, we knew there were issues with the coach and the player and the player and his approach, but even that became a farce after a while. A team in our position, I feel like at some point you just have to elevate a guy to see what he can do (unless whatever he is doing "behind the scenes" is having some major deleterious effect on things).

But whatever, I've resigned myself to Andersson not working out here. Smart money says he impresses in Hartford, comes up, is given back his nine minutes, and eventually fails again.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

So what is your issue with people's takes that Lias has been treated seemingly unfairly or held to a different standard?

If Howden should be in the AHL, but he isn't because of effort... Then Lias is sent down for effort. Didn't Quinn say he needed to play quicker?

Quinn on Lias:

There’s gotta be consistency to his game…one of the things that he’s got to continue to work on is playing faster, I know that that’s a simple answer but a lot of time it is THE answer for young players. When they ask you what do I need to do, you’ve got to play fast, you’ve got to be a little bit quicker, play from one play to the next. It’s not just skating fast, it’s playing fast and I think the more you play, the better chance you have to do that, I certainly understand that, but from a playing standpoint, he’s got to play a little bit faster. I thought there were time he did that, and that’s when he was effective, and I thought there were times where he wasn’t playing quite fast enough…and he’s done an awful lot of good things, in the last year plus, and again, it’s a 21-year old playing in the American Hockey League to gain some confidence, play a little bit more, touch the puck more, to put him in a better position to have success.

No mention of effort...

But I do see one here, oddly enough:

He’s a helluva player. We’ve really needed a certain kind of player to add into our organization. This guy, his work ethic and his ability, you’re gonna love him, the fans will love him. He’s got the combination of the grit and ability we’ve been looking for. He’s not a dynamic scorer, he’s a dynamic player in the way that he plays, he is just so driven, driving the net, forechecking. finishing checks, and he can make a pass, make a play.

--Gordie Clark on Lias

Because the idea that Lias has been treated unfairly is f***ing laughable. Just give him a participation trophy already.

And who gives a crap about a nearly 3-year-old quote from Clarke about Lias?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

That's actually debatable, but either way effort without some proficiency at execution means absolutely nothing. Skating really really REALLY hard around aimlessly is the hockey player equivalent of me typing really really REALLY fast at my job and calling it effort.



Howden should have been in the AHL a month ago so Lias could suck or not suck on the 3rd line and then we wouldn't have to debate any of this.

Here's the thing. I consider Howden and Lias to be basically equivalently useless right now. Neither is a good NHL player. But one guy at least has a somewhat usable skillset. The other guy is offering literally nothing. That's the difference between them. Howden should've been sent down the same day.

 

[Machinehead]

If that was remotely true, you'd expect Lias's TOI to be around 4:30 per game. But, somehow, it's 9:30 per game.

This is some incredible conspiracy that even the league is involved in lying about his ice time in order to pull the rug over all of our eyes.

His per game average is buoyed by playing most of his minutes in games that were out of hand. With the exception of the Nashville game, every game in which he's exceeded 10 minutes of ice time was decided by 3+ goals.

He's regularly benched in close games and don't tell me he isn't. You watch the games.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

His per game average is buoyed by playing most of his minutes in games that were out of hand. With the exception of the Nashville game, every game in which he's exceeded 10 minutes of ice time was decided by 3+ goals.

He's regularly benched in close games and don't tell me he isn't. You watch the games.

"The facts disagree with what I literally wrote, so let me try and fix it!!!111"

He was getting over 9:30 per game. The irony is that you are somehow trying to argue that he was getting more minutes in blowout games (something that literally every team in this league does for young guys or guys trying to prove something) but then you don't say that his TOI average was negatively impacted by his last garbage game of 3 minutes.

Instead of making a silly, easily checked comment, you should do some research first. Took me all of 2 seconds to show that your comment was objectively false.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Because the idea that Lias has been treated unfairly is ****ing laughable. Just give him a participation trophy already.

And who gives a crap about a nearly 3-year-old quote from Clarke about Lias?

So. To be clear: you don't disagree that there's a different standard for the two players, you take issue only with people pointing it out.

Here's the thing. I consider Howden and Lias to be basically equivalently useless right now. Neither is a good NHL player. But one guy at least has a somewhat usable skillset. The other guy is offering literally nothing. That's the difference between them. Howden should've been sent down the same day.

Was it you who said something about knotted logic? Which is it, Howden is as useless as Lias or Howden is more usable than Lias.

I truly cannot follow.

 

[Edge]

I didn't see any lack of effort from Lias last year leading up to his demotion, all the while Howden was not scoring for like 79 straight games or whatever. I did see a lack of effort when he went to Hartford, which was problematic.

I also didn't see any effort issues with Lias until recently. Which, again, is why I don't have a problem with him going down. It's everything that has led up to this. Lias should have been ahead of Howden last year, he should have been ahead of him this year. I'm not understanding why he wasn't. The lack of effort came later. Him going to Hartford is fine. I just don't think he was put in a position to succeed. That he then showed poor effort is on him. But it's not all on him.

In its simplest form, I think Andersson needs to show more, and Quinn needs to put him in a situation to show more as well.

Wanna send him down based on his play the past few weeks? Fine, I get it.

But I also don't want to sit back and defend him getting him 7 f***ing minutes in the first game of the season after the preseason he had. Nor do I want to have to try and justify why he never seems to be placed back with guys he's shown chemistry with (be it last season, or this preseason).

I feel we can expect and want more from Andersson, while also not having to blow past the fact that it didn't make a difference earlier in the season. I like Quinn, but this feels like an issue where I'd be more of an apologist for him. Even a great coach can have an issue or two where their approach is questionable.

 

[Machinehead]

"The facts disagree with what I literally wrote, so let me try and fix it!!!111"

He was getting over 9:30 per game. The irony is that you are somehow trying to argue that he was getting more minutes in blowout games (something that literally every team in this league does for young guys or guys trying to prove something) but then you don't say that his TOI average was negatively impacted by his last garbage game of 3 minutes.

Instead of making a silly, easily checked comment, you should do some research first. Took me all of 2 seconds to show that your comment was objectively false.

But that's not the point. It indicates the level of trust that he only plays in blowout games.

Howden has been just as bad by objective measures (which you're suddenly into now, that's a refreshing change) and we see the opposite for him. The tighter the game, the more Howden is leaned on.

And I don't care if it's 5:30 or 9:30, Howden is playing 15:41.

It's not like he's just deferring to a vet. Every coach does that, I get that. He's got two players that are the same age, at the same level in their development, and are producing similar results, and he treats them differently.

Questioning that is not making excuses for Andersson which is the point that you're so hung up on.

That's why I compared it to the Etem situation, precisely because Etem was a bad player. That doesn't mean we can't also have a reasonable discussion about the coaching, and nobody is being unreasonable here or calling for Quinn to be fired. Nobody has said he's ruining the player.

And I bring it up because you did the same thing with Etem. Because you felt he was a nothing player (rightfully so in that case) it precluded any other discussions whatsoever. Turns out, most Rangers fans would agree AV did a poor job his last few years and he was fired rather unceremoniously, so it actually can be both.

 

[nyr2k2]

In its simplest form, I think Andersson needs to show more, and Quinn needs to put him in a situation to show more as well.

Wanna send him down based on his play the past few weeks? Fine, I get it.

But I also don't want to sit back and defend him getting him 7 ****ing minutes in the first game of the season after the preseason he had. Nor do I want to have to try and justify why he never seems to be placed back with guys he's shown chemistry with (be it last season, or this preseason).

I feel we can expect and want more from Andersson, while also not having to blow past the fact that it didn't make a difference earlier in the season. I like Quinn, but this feels like an issue where I'd be more of an apologist for him. Even a great coach can have an issue or two where their approach is questionable.

I like Quinn as well. I have defended him against most criticisms.

This, this is like, "We need you to move your feet and show us what you can do!" Then he does what's asked of him in preseason and the first few games. He does what was asked and is rewarded with...nothing at all. To me, that really sucks.

That he eventually gets to a point where he literally does look worthless, lost, lacking effort, whatever--that's on him. And that also sucks. I just feel like, maybe had we handled him differently out of the gate, we wouldn't be where we are right now.

But again--we are here. And I hope it's something that works itself out for the best. I'm afraid "the best" ends up with us parting ways and him succeeding elsewhere (this is my gut).

 

[Edge]

I like Quinn as well. I have defended him against most criticisms.

This, this is like, "We need you to move your feet and show us what you can do!" Then he does what's asked of him in preseason and the first few games. He does what was asked and is rewarded with...nothing at all. To me, that really sucks.

That he eventually gets to a point where he literally does look worthless, lost, lacking effort, whatever--that's on him. And that also sucks. I just feel like, maybe had we handled him differently out of the gate, we wouldn't be where we are right now.

But again--we are here. And I hope it's something that works itself out for the best. I'm afraid "the best" ends up with us parting ways and him succeeding elsewhere (this is my gut).

The weird thing for me is that I honestly don't feel like my expectations are unreasonable.

I'd like to see him do certain things, but I'd like to see him getting a shot to do them with 12-13 minutes a night, see how he looks with Lemieux and Fast or other guys he's shown chemistry with, and then it take it from there.

I don't expect him to be centering the first line, or getting 20 minutes a night, or have Panarin glued to him.

This isn't an impossible middle ground. You're going to tell me that we couldn't find even 4 or 5 games to give him some of Howden's minutes? I mean we gave him 7 minutes to start the season, after everyone agreed he was the best looking of our young centers in the preseason. Seriously, 7 minutes!

We had people commenting on here about the strong game he had in Ottawa a few nights later and how he would've had a goal if Zibanejad wasn't going for the trick. What did he get the next game? Another game of 7 minutes!

Look, I get it, he needs to consistently do more. I agree with that. But it doesn't take much to point some of the above examples and think, "Okay, can we at least try to meet him part way?"

It's not all or nothing.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

But that's not the point. It indicates the level of trust that he only plays in blowout games.

Howden has been just as bad by objective measures (which you're suddenly into now, that's a refreshing change) and we see the opposite for him. The tighter the game, the more Howden is leaned on.

And I don't care if it's 5:30 or 9:30, Howden is playing 15:41.

It's not like he's just deferring to a vet. Every coach does that, I get that. He's got two players that are the same age, at the same level in their development, and are producing similar results, and he treats them differently.

Questioning that is not making excuses for Andersson which is the point that you're so hung up on.

That's why I compared it to the Etem situation, precisely because Etem was a bad player. That doesn't mean we can't also have a reasonable discussion about the coaching, and nobody is being unreasonable here or calling for Quinn to be fired. Nobody has said he's ruining the player.

And I bring it up because you did the same thing with Etem. Because you felt he was a nothing player (rightfully so in that case) it precluded any other discussions whatsoever. Turns out, most Rangers fans would agree AV did a poor job his last few years and he was fired rather unceremoniously, so it actually can be both.

Why do you keep mentioning Howden? We agree on Howden. I've said he's been bad for a while, now. Stop using Howden as a crutch for Lias. You're stuck in this rut and you need to get out of it. Howden should not even be a part of the Lias discussion.

 

[Richard Banger]

Well this thread turned into a **** show .

 

[Machinehead]

Why do you keep mentioning Howden? We agree on Howden. I've said he's been bad for a while, now. Stop using Howden as a crutch for Lias. You're stuck in this rut and you need to get out of it. Howden should not even be a part of the Lias discussion.

They're in direct competition for minutes. It's like saying Shestyorkin isn't part of the discussion about Georgiev's future.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

They're in direct competition for minutes. It's like saying Shestyorkin isn't part of the discussion about Georgiev's future.

I can assure you that if Lias had hustled like Howden, he'd get the minutes. That's the differentiation. It's a fact of life, dude. They both suck and both should be in the AHL.

I do think that both will be viable 3rd liners in the future. I actually think that Andersson could be a good winger for Howden . . .

 

[Machinehead]

I can assure you that if Lias had hustled like Howden, he'd get the minutes. That's the differentiation. It's a fact of life, dude. They both suck and both should be in the AHL.

I do think that both will be viable 3rd liners in the future. I actually think that Andersson could be a good winger for Howden . . .

Well, there it is.

Nebulous Quinn things like I've been saying all along.

 

[Edge]

I’m actually kind of surprised they didn’t try Andersson on the wing a bit more.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I actually think that Andersson could be a good winger for Howden . . .

I’ve actually been thinking the inverse

 

[Leetch3]

I’m actually kind of surprised they didn’t try Andersson on the wing a bit more.

I might be wrong, but prior to the other day when he was sent down, I don't remember the team ever saying that they were open to trying him on wing. previously it was he's a center and we are keeping all 3 youngsters at center...

 

[RangerBlues]

Lias needs to knock it down and start from scratch again. Its not working. He is regressing.

 

[Raspewtin]

he didn't get lots of time but I liked Gettinger in his short burst

he looks like a modern day 4th liner to me. I'd like to see him continue to get time even when Zib comes back

 

[RangersFan1994]

he didn't get lots of time but I liked Gettinger in his short burst

he looks like a modern day 4th liner to me. I'd like to see him continue to get time even when Zib comes back

he did look good last night. I just wish he was more physical and aggressive considering his size. Gettinger seems to be a good option in front on the PP with his size.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Getts is basically made for our 4th line.