Recalled/Assigned: Lias to Hartford, Gettinger called up

[Harbour Dog]

It's really hard to throw that thing with all that pesky water coming in!

But it doesn't matter, Lias was too slow to escape the ship as it sank.

Captain Quinn momentarily thought about throwing him a line, but then decided Lias wasn't doing enough of the small things. When asked if a rope would've helped, he replied, "Yeah, probably."

Commodore Clark, the bastard responsible for this disaster, was airlifted to shore. Once there, he will tried, sentenced, and shot out of a cannon for his transgressions.

Not to mention the rumors surrounding Ensign Howden and how the ship came to be sinking in the first place.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

This is just such excuse-making to me. Lias's inability to play above his line-mates is on him. Not Quinn. If you're unable to evaluate a player by himself, that's something you should address. It's not the coach.

I like that Quinn cut right through the bull**** during the presser when discussing Lias. He’s a coach I would want to play for.

The one thing that disappointed me was when he was asked if playing Lias in a top-9 Role would spark him. Quinn responded yes.

Why the hell wouldn’t you give the kid that chance? What does Quinn have to lose?

 

[Machinehead]

It’s almost like he needs to play better to earn the role you think he deserves.

Players need to be given equal opportunities before we decide who deserves it.

 

[Machinehead]

I like that Quinn cut right through the bull**** during the presser when discussing Lias. He’s a coach I would want to play for.

The one thing that disappointed me was when he was asked if playing Lias in a top-9 Role would spark him. Quinn responded yes.

Why the hell wouldn’t you give the kid that chance? What does Quinn have to lose?

I do appreciate that Quinn (generally) doesn't bullshit us but in doing so, he sometimes confounds me by not just doing the things he talks about.

 

[Blue Blooded]

You're welcome

So the only Finnish team in the KHL doesn't actually have a Finnish-sized rink, but 11 other teams do?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So the only Finnish team in the KHL doesn't actually have a Finnish-sized rink, but 11 other teams do?

Correct

 

[kovazub94]

Players need to be given equal opportunities before we decide who deserves it.

Equal opportunities? Let's have Marx's socialism in hockey, lol!
Opportunities are earned. There are factors that go into this decision process. Sometimes it's years of pro career, sometimes it's a better play in just a prior season / stretch of games and sometimes it's how much you leave and on the ice vs. kept in untapped reserve as @Tawnos pointed out recently.

Seriously, it amazes me how you can talk from both sides of the mouth when it comes to accountability and opportunity discussions.
Staal "sucks" - bench him. Ok, but then simultaneously, Andersson who has been an absolute disappointment and needed to be carried by his "scrubs" linemates - promote him to give more icetime and responsibilities.
How do you objectively defend your position other than that you have your favorites and these players / prospects should get preferential treatment?

BTW, when Quinn got roster options on LD he promptly followed through and sat both Staal and Skjei when they deserved (when this board expected Hajek or Lindgren to be healthy scratches). But yeah, I know, Quinn sucks because he's not giving Andersson opportunities.

 

[Edge]

Eh, I think it's a bit of a balancing act.

I feel like this issue is falling into extremes again.

Andersson doesn't need to be spoon fed 20 minutes a night, but even Quinn flat out said that he could benefit from third line minutes and opportunities. So the actual difference here is line combinations and maybe 2 or 3 minutes. The irony is I don't think the gap in preferences here is that wide. It's actually kind of funny how much of a debate it's become.

I've always felt that developing young talent, in any industry, is a balancing act. On the one hand, you need young talent to earn their responsibility. On the other hand, there are times you need to give them a little more rope to learn and grow.

I just hate how this shit starts to feel like a political conversation where people become rigid on beliefs. We simply don't live in a black and white world.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Lias has the only goal in Hartford today so far, 3-1 down to Syracuse

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Players need to be given equal opportunities before we decide who deserves it.

This is hilariously circular logic.

If Lias wasn't earning a higher role (which he wasn't), how do you expect him to get an "opportunity" at a higher role unless Quinn gives out ice time undeservingly to him?

You're tied into so many knots at this point that I'm not sure where the conversation goes next.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Lias has the only goal in Hartford today so far, 3-1 down to Syracuse

Good. He should take this opportunity and run with it.

 

[LORDE]

Good. He should take this opportunity and run with it.

I think we would all LOVE to see that. We need the kid to be something at least decent for us

 

[Thirty One]

3-1? Is Shesterkin finished?

 

[Mac n Gs]

This is hilariously circular logic.

If Lias wasn't earning a higher role (which he wasn't), how do you expect him to get an "opportunity" at a higher role unless Quinn gives out ice time undeservingly to him?

You're tied into so many knots at this point that I'm not sure where the conversation goes next.

I still don't get how it's somehow getting lost that he couldn't individually generate more than guys like Haley and McKegg. That's the exact problem right there. If he drove his line, he realistically would have been given an opportunity to advance. He simply just didn't do that.

I'm not saying this to pile on Lias because I seriously want him to succeed as a prospect. It's just the reality of his current situation.

 

[kovazub94]

I still don't get how it's somehow getting lost that he couldn't individually generate more than guys like Haley and McKegg. That's the exact problem right there. If he drove his line, he realistically would have been given an opportunity to advance. He simply just didn't do that.

I'm not saying this to pile on Lias because I seriously want him to succeed as a prospect. It's just the reality of his current situation.

Because excuses...

 

[mike14]

I still don't get how it's somehow getting lost that he couldn't individually generate more than guys like Haley and McKegg. That's the exact problem right there. If he drove his line, he realistically would have been given an opportunity to advance. He simply just didn't do that.

I'm not saying this to pile on Lias because I seriously want him to succeed as a prospect. It's just the reality of his current situation.

It's not getting lost, it just seems people ignore certain parts of the argument because nobody wants to be "wrong", even though there isn't really any "wrong"position here.
If you go through all the posts (and yeah, it's painful), the overwhelming consensus seems to be:
- Lias as the best of the younger players during pre-season, and deserved the chance to play with better players to at least start the season
- Quinn has said Lias should have had some 3rd line time (unsure whether this means more mins or just playing with better players)
- even without more time/better line-mates Lias should have shown more when in games
- sending him down isn't a problem and likely should have been done several games earlier

Responsibility for those points falls on both Lias and Quinn...

 

[McRanger]

The "Lias has to earn it" argument would look less ridiculous if Howden actually earned anything he's gotten.

It would still be ridiculous though, because that isn't how reality works. Sure, sometimes a guy steals a job but a lot of times opportunities come when someone ahead of you shits the bed. I mean if Georgiev was having a crap year he would still get all of the games if every time Hank started he wandered out of the net to brush his hair.

 

[TheDirtyH]

3-1? Is Shesterkin finished?

Would've been 5-1 if Lundqvist had played.

Watch the games, how bout.

 

[nyr2k2]

The "Lias has to earn it" argument would look less ridiculous if Howden actually earned anything he's gotten.

It would still be ridiculous though, because that isn't how reality works. Sure, sometimes a guy steals a job but a lot of times opportunities come when someone ahead of you ****s the bed. I mean if Georgiev was having a crap year he would still get all of the games if every time Hank started he wandered out of the net to brush his hair.

That's all it boils down to, for me. Yes, Lias looked like shit after the first handful of games, and did nothing to force his way up the lineup. But Howden has looked like shit for over a year and apparently that's okay, he still gets his 15-16 minutes to be a net negative. I just don't understand why one guy is rewarded for being terrible, and another guy (who actually looked good in camp and preseason) is told to take his nine minutes and impress us, or be gone.

I'm sure there's some logic to it, but I sure as shit can't see it.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I still don't get how it's somehow getting lost that he couldn't individually generate more than guys like Haley and McKegg. That's the exact problem right there. If he drove his line, he realistically would have been given an opportunity to advance. He simply just didn't do that.

I'm not saying this to pile on Lias because I seriously want him to succeed as a prospect. It's just the reality of his current situation.

Exactly!!

We are seeing excuse after excuse for why he failed this year. Fact of the matter is, Haley and McKegg looked about the same as him. That's f***ing pathetic. If you can't look better than Haley and McKegg, what are you really doing to earn even third line minutes?

Of course he COULD have looked better on a third line, but in order to get that chance, he had to f***ing earn it. He didn't. He stepped on a rake nearly every shift.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

That's all it boils down to, for me. Yes, Lias looked like **** after the first handful of games, and did nothing to force his way up the lineup. But Howden has looked like **** for over a year and apparently that's okay, he still gets his 15-16 minutes to be a net negative. I just don't understand why one guy is rewarded for being terrible, and another guy (who actually looked good in camp and preseason) is told to take his nine minutes and impress us, or be gone.

I'm sure there's some logic to it, but I sure as **** can't see it.

Because, like it or not, effort matters. One guy is clearly giving it and one guy either isn't or can't.

And for the 20th time (just to avoid having to say it yet again), I feel that Howden should also be in the AHL.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

It's not getting lost, it just seems people ignore certain parts of the argument because nobody wants to be "wrong", even though there isn't really any "wrong"position here.
If you go through all the posts (and yeah, it's painful), the overwhelming consensus seems to be:
- Lias as the best of the younger players during pre-season, and deserved the chance to play with better players to at least start the season
- Quinn has said Lias should have had some 3rd line time (unsure whether this means more mins or just playing with better players)
- even without more time/better line-mates Lias should have shown more when in games
- sending him down isn't a problem and likely should have been done several games earlier

Responsibility for those points falls on both Lias and Quinn...

If you actually read his full set of comments, he's not saying he should've played Lias on the 3rd line. He essentially said Lias didn't do enough to warrant it and those above him didn't fail to a level below Lias as to bump him up without warrant.

It's incredibly simple and consistent with how Quinn has coached.

Again, Howden should be in the AHL. Yet Howden was out there busting his ass and at least offering something in comparison to Lias.

 

[Machinehead]

This is hilariously circular logic.

If Lias wasn't earning a higher role (which he wasn't), how do you expect him to get an "opportunity" at a higher role unless Quinn gives out ice time undeservingly to him?

You're tied into so many knots at this point that I'm not sure where the conversation goes next.

Players have to see the ice to properly evaluate them. If that's circular logic, then that's on you.

It's not like we're just talking about a 4th liner. 4th liners typically get 9-11 minutes. Lias is lucky if he sees that in two games.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Players have to see the ice to properly evaluate them. If that's circular logic, then that's on you.

It's not like we're just talking about a 4th liner. 4th liners typically get 9-11 minutes. Lias is lucky if he sees that in two games.

If that was remotely true, you'd expect Lias's TOI to be around 4:30 per game. But, somehow, it's 9:30 per game.

This is some incredible conspiracy that even the league is involved in lying about his ice time in order to pull the rug over all of our eyes.

 

[nyr2k2]

Because, like it or not, effort matters. One guy is clearly giving it and one guy either isn't or can't.

And for the 20th time (just to avoid having to say it yet again), I feel that Howden should also be in the AHL.

I didn't see any lack of effort from Lias last year leading up to his demotion, all the while Howden was not scoring for like 79 straight games or whatever. I did see a lack of effort when he went to Hartford, which was problematic.

I also didn't see any effort issues with Lias until recently. Which, again, is why I don't have a problem with him going down. It's everything that has led up to this. Lias should have been ahead of Howden last year, he should have been ahead of him this year. I'm not understanding why he wasn't. The lack of effort came later. Him going to Hartford is fine. I just don't think he was put in a position to succeed. That he then showed poor effort is on him. But it's not all on him.