DaveG
Noted Jerk
I mean 45% isn't great but it's also nowhere near early career McDavid or Jack Hughes as well. And Necas has been steadily improving.
GDT: Let the Free Agency Madness begin
- Thread starter Nikishin Go Boom
- Start date
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Brock Anton
flames #badnwagon
I’m not really overly concerned about the 2C. Kotkaniemi in the second half of the season was basically scoring at a 2C pace.
Sure, if you can get a guy like Lindholm, go for it. But I don’t think we’re weak down the middle if we go into the season with KK on the second line again (especially if we can pull off the Tarasenko signing and give him a scoring wing to play with).
Sure, if you can get a guy like Lindholm, go for it. But I don’t think we’re weak down the middle if we go into the season with KK on the second line again (especially if we can pull off the Tarasenko signing and give him a scoring wing to play with).
SvechneJerk
Christ is King
Necas being able to make the transition to C would definitely give us some options.
Unsustainable
Seth Jarvis has Big Kahunas
Or move Necas for Linholm.
Gives Calgary a RFA they can control, maybe we can extend Lindholm for ~8.5
ElmCityGuy
Registered User
- Apr 20, 2023
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Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
He isn't bad and has asked to play in the center in the past, even in his AHL days...however, he didn't get his father's faceoff acumen.
Frankly speaking, he's playstyle is best suited at wings.
SvechneJerk
Christ is King
Negan4Coach
Fantastic and Stochastic
Nylander…..
Toronto did this to themselves and really have no one to blame but themselves after they gave Matthews too much money to do an extension before the end of the season when he could become an RFA…. and then reaaaaaaaaaaaally gave Marner waaaaay too much money on his new contract as an RFA coming out of his entry level deal to avoid Marner holding out similar to what Nylander did the year before.
Those deals were always out of line with what every other team paid their stars at those specific points in their experience/careers in the league…. But given Nylander’s extended hold out coming out of his entry level deal the year before, Toronto over compensated to get extensions done early for Matthews and then get Marner signed to be on the ice for the whole season…..and those guys screwed the team cap for Toronto and created a simmering long term salary cap issue for the team as a whole, but also individually as well with Nylander that makes it near impossible to resolve to keep him with the team. Toronto wants to play dumb and negotiate with Nylander in a vacuum as if they didn’t give those over inflated deals to Marner and Matthews… and at the same time they want to do an extension with Nylander they are trying to also get an extension with Matthews that gives him even more money per year and squeezes the cap even more for any deal for Nylander….
unsurprisingly given the history and people involved, Nylander is not exactly wanting to just go along with this….and Nylander has already proven he will do anything, including sitting out and not playing for months of the regular season to get the money he feels he is due.
Nylander feels he should get as much or more than what those other teammates get. He held out when none of his fellow RFAs from his draft class went that far or to that extreme with only 2 seasons of 20 goals and 60 points. He got less AAV on a 6 year deal than everyone since has got because Toronto didn’t want a repeat of the Nylander debacle and neither did other teams.. But all these years as they have played out their current contracts, Nylander feels he has been underpaid for his performance level compared to his own teammates and now he doubly wants to get “made whole“ and more with an extension. He certainly doesn’t want to end up being the guy taking even less *again* compared to the others.
on the open market in a pure UFA situation at the start of July 1, someone likely would offer Nylander $10M or more per season on a long term deal. But anyone who does now has a challenge on their hands trying to slot all their superstar contracts and find value in other contracts to make the whole team cap work long term. Florida is in a better situation with Tkachuk counting $9.5M compared to Nylander at 10m+…. Nylander will hold out for it until he gets what he wants… he has already done it once. He will do it again. Rightly or wrongly, the perception of Nylander wanting to make sure he gets paid every penny he feels he is due is out there no matter what it does to a teams ability to ice a winning team… and that’s with him having a <$7M cap hit compared to the $10.9M cap hit of Marner and $11.6M cap hit of Matthews.
Aho isn’t taking a home team discount either. He made sure he got paid with his offer sheet ploy and it looks like he will get paid again and he won’t be taking a discount to sign long term with us. He is one of the few must have players the team is willing to pay more market driven rates for to retain and don’t put their hard core tight valuations on. But we have more flexibility signing our #1 center to under 10m if rumors are to be believed and the consistency and discipline in our leadership group to build the rest of the roster for max cap flexibility and tight cap management…
long winded way of saying Nylander may be fine as a remtal for one year ala Patches to have more scoring. But trading for him expecting to sign him to a long term extension is likely a non starter given what he will demand on the extension
Toronto did this to themselves and really have no one to blame but themselves after they gave Matthews too much money to do an extension before the end of the season when he could become an RFA…. and then reaaaaaaaaaaaally gave Marner waaaaay too much money on his new contract as an RFA coming out of his entry level deal to avoid Marner holding out similar to what Nylander did the year before.
Those deals were always out of line with what every other team paid their stars at those specific points in their experience/careers in the league…. But given Nylander’s extended hold out coming out of his entry level deal the year before, Toronto over compensated to get extensions done early for Matthews and then get Marner signed to be on the ice for the whole season…..and those guys screwed the team cap for Toronto and created a simmering long term salary cap issue for the team as a whole, but also individually as well with Nylander that makes it near impossible to resolve to keep him with the team. Toronto wants to play dumb and negotiate with Nylander in a vacuum as if they didn’t give those over inflated deals to Marner and Matthews… and at the same time they want to do an extension with Nylander they are trying to also get an extension with Matthews that gives him even more money per year and squeezes the cap even more for any deal for Nylander….
unsurprisingly given the history and people involved, Nylander is not exactly wanting to just go along with this….and Nylander has already proven he will do anything, including sitting out and not playing for months of the regular season to get the money he feels he is due.
Nylander feels he should get as much or more than what those other teammates get. He held out when none of his fellow RFAs from his draft class went that far or to that extreme with only 2 seasons of 20 goals and 60 points. He got less AAV on a 6 year deal than everyone since has got because Toronto didn’t want a repeat of the Nylander debacle and neither did other teams.. But all these years as they have played out their current contracts, Nylander feels he has been underpaid for his performance level compared to his own teammates and now he doubly wants to get “made whole“ and more with an extension. He certainly doesn’t want to end up being the guy taking even less *again* compared to the others.
on the open market in a pure UFA situation at the start of July 1, someone likely would offer Nylander $10M or more per season on a long term deal. But anyone who does now has a challenge on their hands trying to slot all their superstar contracts and find value in other contracts to make the whole team cap work long term. Florida is in a better situation with Tkachuk counting $9.5M compared to Nylander at 10m+…. Nylander will hold out for it until he gets what he wants… he has already done it once. He will do it again. Rightly or wrongly, the perception of Nylander wanting to make sure he gets paid every penny he feels he is due is out there no matter what it does to a teams ability to ice a winning team… and that’s with him having a <$7M cap hit compared to the $10.9M cap hit of Marner and $11.6M cap hit of Matthews.
Aho isn’t taking a home team discount either. He made sure he got paid with his offer sheet ploy and it looks like he will get paid again and he won’t be taking a discount to sign long term with us. He is one of the few must have players the team is willing to pay more market driven rates for to retain and don’t put their hard core tight valuations on. But we have more flexibility signing our #1 center to under 10m if rumors are to be believed and the consistency and discipline in our leadership group to build the rest of the roster for max cap flexibility and tight cap management…
long winded way of saying Nylander may be fine as a remtal for one year ala Patches to have more scoring. But trading for him expecting to sign him to a long term extension is likely a non starter given what he will demand on the extension
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
- Jul 31, 2017
- 23,708
- 55,334
If there was a good young center we could acquire for Necas, i would be all for getting Nylander. If he would take a little less to come here. But I don’t see anything that seems possible.
Since C seems unlikely overall, i think we should try to get a LW upgrade with Pesce & turbo
Since C seems unlikely overall, i think we should try to get a LW upgrade with Pesce & turbo
Lempo
Recovering Future Considerations Truther
- Feb 23, 2014
- 27,729
- 86,717
Aho's offer sheet was on the money part right in between what the peesumed opening bids from Canes and from Aho was. The difference was term, Canes wouldn't have budged from 8 years and Aho didn't feel like ruining his summer trying to get his wanted 5 years. The paper ended up paying for less UFA years, but for the money it was fair to the extent that the Canes brass didn't initially seem to believe the sum was so low.
McDavid, Eichel, Draisaitl all were signed onto 8 yead contracts in 2017 with McDavid and Eichel still having year left on their ELC. The talk at time was that NHL contracting is shifting in favor of the RFAs, the best of whom were the best players in their team whose name sold most jerseys.
Dubas did hand out ridiculous contracts, but there was this and that, with Matthews affording to take the McDavid SPC as his blueprint, and Marner on his part seeking to recover how he (5OA in 2015 draftee) got slighted in comparison to Matthews (1OA in 2016), when Lou said in 2015 he doesn't believe in performance bonuses refusing to give Marner a Schedule B one, which all flew our of the window the next year because 1OA Matthews couldn't be left out of his 1OA $2M bonus, resulting in awkward situation where in 2017-18 (I think) Marner's performance (top 10 in league in PPG or something) would have gotten him the ~$1.5M bonus if only Lou would have given him it back in the day and Matthews who had the bonus didn't qualify for it that year. Marner made sure he was the highest paid player in the league ($16M in real money) above Matthews ($15.9M) in his first year of the new contract.
It may be that there just hasn't really been ELC superstarts in the league after the McDavid, Eichel, Matthews era, but those contracts by Dubas were the ridiculous pinnacle and the RFA contracting has since returned to a sane level.
The CBA was changed in 2020 (or so) for the variability rule on multi-year contracts, to not anymore allow quite so steep frontloading as was possible for TOR and Matthews and Marner. I'd like to believe Dubas is to blame for that.
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bleedgreen
Registered User
Well….is Tarasenko a better scoring forward than Svech and Necas? Currently?
Brock Anton
flames #badnwagon
Where did I say Tarasenko was better than anyone else? All I was pointing out was giving KK a scoring wing can possibly have him putting up 2C production for an entire season. That doesn't mean I think Tank is better than everyone or that we don't have any (we do lack them, however).
But to answer your question. Svech is currently better and has been for a couple years now, but he's most likely not playing on a line with KK so he's moot. Necas, no. He's too streaky for me to consider him a better "scoring" forward yet, he's a better playmaker though. But i've also been trying to ship Necas on the first flight out of Raleigh for the past 2 months so I'm probably not the best person to ask that one to.
bleedgreen
Registered User
You said “if we can get Koko a scoring wing to play with”. Svech and Necas started off as Koko’s linemates this past season. Those were our best two this season. He’s going to play with one of them at least or Jarvis. Point is, he’s already been playing with talented wingers for us so I don’t think Tank is the answer there - but you never know who someone is going to have great chemistry with.
Necas got us 70 pts for 3 mill. I can see wanting to add to him, I don’t understand wanting to subtract. Not a lot of players out there that we’re gonna get that are improvements on that.
Brock Anton
flames #badnwagon
... and he didn't really produce with Svech but later showed chemistry w/Necas (who, again, I don't consider to be a "scoring" forward) and TT. What's the issue with me claiming that getting KK a "scoring wing" could help unlock future production? I think taking the chemstry found between KK/Necas and replacing TT with a multi-time 30+ goal scorer (even if he's not in his prime) might work. If you don't think Tank is the answer and/or that KK doesn't really belong as a #2C, that's perfectly fine. But I'm failing to see the big issue with what I said. Hell, maybe KK's chemistry was with TT all along and pairing them with a scoring wing is the answer, who knows. Also, we might not even sign Tarasenko making all of this moot lol.
As for Necas, I've said my peace there and not really interested in getting in another discussion about him. I accept the fact that I'm in the minority on that one.
Given KK's progression, I'm gonna Chris Terry things and go out on a limb and say he'll put up 50 - 55 points and 20 goals this upcoming season.....this one's for you @Boom Boom Apathy. 
I get the net talent argument, but it's not that simple. If you flip Necas to C, his game changes due mostly to the D responsibility for a center. He'd need to play down lower and he's not going to be able to pop out in transition nearly as often. Having the mentally rethink the game will take time, as it did for Aho when he made the switch (albeit earlier in his career).
I see it kind of differently. The recency bias with KK and Necas is an interesting dynamic but I don't buy it. KK finished strong while Necas didn't but that really doesn't necessarily carry over to the following season. They both make too many bad decisions with the puck and commit a number of unforced turnovers as a result. I do think the Canes are weak down the middle with an up-and-down KK, a fading Staal and likely Drury. Not great in my book.
SvechneJerk
Christ is King
Stickpucker
Playmaka
- Jan 18, 2014
- 16,362
- 39,798
The Canes are in a nice spot now that all the UFA D talent is gone.
The GMs who don't like what they see on their back end need to start making calls.
The GMs who don't like what they see on their back end need to start making calls.
FlyingSquirrels
Registered User
- Jul 5, 2011
- 1,887
- 2,247
Islanders make too much sense for Pesce. New York guy and Lou handing out long term deals like candy on Halloween.
Unsustainable
Seth Jarvis has Big Kahunas
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