Let’s even the playing field…after tax payroll cap

[Pinkfloyd]

"Socially responsible" is an opinion, not a fact.

It's actually a bit of both really.

and again, what does that even mean?

Likely something to do with what countries do for their citizens like health care and education but can't say for sure.

 

[edog37]

I think it’s more that in some cities, they and their families can never have privacy or blend in. And then if the team is doing poorly, everywhere they and their families go they will have mouthbreathing morons giving them shit for it.

Some players love the limelight and thrive under negative social pressure, like Kadri. But it seems like lots of NHL players don’t

Funny how professional athletes in other cities never mention this & players around the NHL never mention it either. So in other words, it's an excuse to ignore the real issue these players really complain.....the economics end of high taxation. Take for example, Jeff Petry. By being traded to the Pens, he will probably save north of $500,000 on his salary based on taxes alone. That's a significant tax savings & a huge incentive for anyone.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It does. The cap has nearly doubled since its initial implementation

Edit: Or do you mean from place to place? Again, just because we can't make absolutely everything equal doesn't mean we shouldn't do so with the low hanging fruit.

Cap has zero ties to inflation
It only depends on revenues.

 

[edog37]

It's actually a bit of both really.

Likely something to do with what countries do for their citizens like health care and education but can't say for sure.

explains why a lot of Canadians come to the US for their healthcare needs. Regarding public education, the US spent north of $700 billion in the latest figures. The issue isn't funding, but rather the education cartels & lack of parental choice in the matter. Neither socialized education or healthcare is feasible.

 

[J bo Jeans]

That's a load of crap. These guys have routinely played in Stanley Cup playoff situations where the pressure is far more immense. These guys are professional hockey players. If they are that mentally fragile, then explain how these individuals can ever win one Cup, let alone multiple ones as some have done. It's most definitely the tax issue & one cited by players.

Did you not see the post I was replying too? The tax issue is a myth when it comes to salary. The only thing it could affect is purchasing things within that state/province.

Don't pretend like its not easier to play outside of Canada.

 

[Nihiliste]

Funny how professional athletes in other cities never mention this & players around the NHL never mention it either. So in other words, it's an excuse to ignore the real issue these players really complain.....the economics end of high taxation. Take for example, Jeff Petry. By being traded to the Pens, he will probably save north of $500,000 on his salary based on taxes alone. That's a significant tax savings & a huge incentive for anyone.

Jeff Petry probably just also wants to leave Canada at this stage, for a variety of reasons.

Each country and locale have different tax rules that can be used to your advantage. Canada has some loopholes available to high net worth individuals and families that the US doesn’t have and vice versa. In my line of work, I could actually save more on taxes if I still lived in Toronto than I do in the US.

 

[Golden_Jet]

explains why a lot of Canadians come to the US for their healthcare needs. Regarding public education, the US spent north of $700 billion in the latest figures. The issue isn't funding, but rather the education cartels & lack of parental choice in the matter. Neither socialized education or healthcare is feasible.

Why is healthcare not feasible, US only country without it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

explains why a lot of Canadians come to the US for their healthcare needs. Regarding public education, the US spent north of $700 billion in the latest figures. The issue isn't funding, but rather the education cartels & lack of parental choice in the matter. Neither socialized education or healthcare is feasible.

A lot of Americans go to Canada for healthcare needs too. A lot of people go to Mexico to score cheaper drugs too. The issue with education as it relates to funding is that like the healthcare system, it's built to be scammed. There's already plenty of choice. The issue is that all the choices mostly suck. Other countries have figured out effective ways to socialize education and healthcare to the point that saying it isn't feasible is complete horseshit.

 

[CarolinaBlueJacket]

It's actually a bit of both really.

Likely something to do with what countries do for their citizens like health care and education but can't say for sure.

That Pink Floyd (the band) puts me to sleep is a fact
That Pink Floyd (the band) is boring is an opinion

That a locale provides any service through the government is a fact
That it is good (socially responsible) or bad (government control) is an opinion

 

[JPCanada]

explains why a lot of Canadians come to the US for their healthcare needs. Regarding public education, the US spent north of $700 billion in the latest figures. The issue isn't funding, but rather the education cartels & lack of parental choice in the matter. Neither socialized education or healthcare is feasible.

That's why Canadians with money to spare go to America, by pass wait times. As mentioned above, and I could be wrong... But the US is the only country in the world with full privatized health care. The UK I believe has a hybrid system.

Socialized health care works just fine...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That Pink Floyd (the band) puts me to sleep is a fact
That Pink Floyd (the band) is boring is an opinion

That a locale provides any service through the government is a fact
That it is good (socially responsible) or bad (government control) is an opinion

And there are factual ways to support being socially responsible in this context. It's not really a controversial thing to say. You just have a clear ideological bent against the concept. That's okay.

 

[Spirits]

No reason as to why NYR and the Leafs should have the same cap hit as Arizona considering they keep that franchise alive

Really smart idea...

 

[The Marquis]

I can't imagine this hasn't been said, but I'm not going to read the entire thing. Where the disparity comes in this idea is the outgoing funds from the owners. They won't let that type of disparity happen. Imagine LA, Anaheim, San Jose paying an additional 10m+ of payroll than Seattle, Dallas, Nashville, Tampa and Florida. There's already a handful of teams receiving additional money from other teams and it isn't anywhere near what would be needed for this level of parity.

 

[Church Hill]

You just have a clear ideological bent

If you projected any harder we could watch movies on you.

 

[edog37]

Did you not see the post I was replying too? The tax issue is a myth when it comes to salary. The only thing it could affect is purchasing things within that state/province.

Don't pretend like its not easier to play outside of Canada.

And you are wrong. The tax issue is a core issue. Why would I want to willingly pay more in taxes in one place when I could pay less elsewhere? People make these decisions every day. Companies do this as well. What makes you think professional hockey players don't do it. And you're whole statement about playing outside Canada being easier is just patently absurd. A lot of these guys have come up through the Canadian junior hockey system & didn't wilt. But suddenly, they are going to wilt just because they get bugged more at dinner? You are just trying to avoid the real issue why Canadian teams can't compete anymore & can't retain talent.

A lot of Americans go to Canada for healthcare needs too. A lot of people go to Mexico to score cheaper drugs too. The issue with education as it relates to funding is that like the healthcare system, it's built to be scammed. There's already plenty of choice. The issue is that all the choices mostly suck. Other countries have figured out effective ways to socialize education and healthcare to the point that saying it isn't feasible is complete horseshit.

Facts say otherwise.

More Canadians leaving country for health care: Report

Jeff Petry probably just also wants to leave Canada at this stage, for a variety of reasons.

Each country and locale have different tax rules that can be used to your advantage. Canada has some loopholes available to high net worth individuals and families that the US doesn’t have and vice versa. In my line of work, I could actually save more on taxes if I still lived in Toronto than I do in the US.

one big reason he left (& directly from his own words) is Canada's continued COVID policies.

 

[tsujimoto74]

No.

 

[Statto]

You’d have to do it with a net cap. However, with the variety of States, two countries and everyone having a different accountant it just isn’t possible to manage. You can’t even base it on the local tax because that’s not the rate they actually pay, because they play and earn money in different tax areas constantly.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If you projected any harder we could watch movies on you.

Great contribution. Doesn't change the matter at hand that that's why that person is making the statements they are.

Facts say otherwise.

More Canadians leaving country for health care: Report

This article doesn't refute anything that I've said nor substantiates anything you have said other than Canadians leaving the country for healthcare. That statement doesn't mean that socialized healthcare isn't working or isn't feasible.

 

[Machinehead]

No, they should just not have a hard cap.

 

[cowboy82nd]

I'm perfectly in favour of getting rid of the salary cap. Have a luxury tax like the NBA. I hate the salary cap and not even because I'm a Leafs fan, we sucked before the cap too. I hated watching well built teams like the Blackhawks getting dismantled because of the cap.

But if we are going to have a cap for "parity," seems natural to at least have it be fair no?

The cap in no way is for “parity”. It’s for cost control for the owners.

 

[AvroArrow]

I don't like the salary cap either, but I'm also not a fan of the luxury tax. The whole NBA salary cap system is completely f***ed. I wouldn't want to emulate them at all with all the extra provisions and adjustments.

I like the idea of having a luxury tax for players you drafted, it would give teams the ability to keep the star players they drafted/developed. Something a little more than just being able to offer them 1 extra year. It sucks to see teams draft/develop so well and then they have to lose the guy because of a hard cap.

 

[J bo Jeans]

And you are wrong. The tax issue is a core issue. Why would I want to willingly pay more in taxes in one place when I could pay less elsewhere? People make these decisions every day. Companies do this as well. What makes you think professional hockey players don't do it. And you're whole statement about playing outside Canada being easier is just patently absurd. A lot of these guys have come up through the Canadian junior hockey system & didn't wilt. But suddenly, they are going to wilt just because they get bugged more at dinner? You are just trying to avoid the real issue why Canadian teams can't compete anymore & can't retain talent.


Facts say otherwise.

More Canadians leaving country for health care: Report


one big reason he left (& directly from his own words) is Canada's continued COVID policies.

lol. Yeah tax is an issue if you don't have a competent accountant. Players and the NHL have mechanisms they can use to shield their tax burden and essentially pay the same amount of taxes no matter where they chose to play.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to taxes. You're just spreading misinformation that has been repeated for years.

You think that junior hockey in Canada is the same as playing in the NHL in Canada. Come on bro lol. You're seriously gonna act like theres as much pressure playing in the US as in Canada come on now.

lol Gaudreau said explicitly that the covid restrictions were not a deciding factor what are you talking about.

Now you're on about healthcare lmao. On nearly every impactful healthcare standard metric Canada beats the US. Do you think nearly every country with a high standard of living has socialized healthcare for fun? The only country that is entirely privatized is the US.

You're spewing nonsense on topics you don't have the slightest of insight on.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

No, we don’t need a new system. Or is complicated to fix.
Yes this has been covered numerous times.

Take Auston Matthews , he gets a lot more take home than Marner, because he has US residency, and has huge signing bonuses.
He pays less than half the tax on the signing bonus Marner does.
Also players can invest in RCA to lower taxes.

Basically it’s complicated, there is no one fix for each state or province.
Players also pay tax where each game is played, so all road games are different.

We could start limiting signing bonuses, to even the playing field more, as you suggest.
Other than Toronto no one pays 95% of salary in signing bonuses.

GJ - you are 100% correct that taxes are anything but straightforward. Players pay tax based on where the games are actually played, so playing in FLA doesn't mean you won't pay state taxes, just that a greater % of your games are played in tax free environment. With that said - it's not as easy as the media likes to make it where if ONT has a 7% tax rate that the Maple Leafs are facing a 7% "hurdle" vs. FLA or TX.

If you wanted to include something like taxes, you would also need to include things like coaching, scouting, and the % of money that's paid up front or via bonuses. All of those things impact the competitive landscape and significantly favor larger markets who can invest more in them.

IMO - people have lost site the the primary reason for the cap was cost certainty for the owners, and not to create a perfectly competitive environment. If the competition aspect was the priority, all teams would have to be at the midpoint of the cap, and not +/- 20'ish% as it currently stands.

 

[Golden_Jet]

And you are wrong. The tax issue is a core issue. Why would I want to willingly pay more in taxes in one place when I could pay less elsewhere? People make these decisions every day. Companies do this as well. What makes you think professional hockey players don't do it. And you're whole statement about playing outside Canada being easier is just patently absurd. A lot of these guys have come up through the Canadian junior hockey system & didn't wilt. But suddenly, they are going to wilt just because they get bugged more at dinner? You are just trying to avoid the real issue why Canadian teams can't compete anymore & can't retain talent.


Facts say otherwise.

More Canadians leaving country for health care: Report


one big reason he left (& directly from his own words) is Canada's continued COVID policies.

What are these Covid policies again, none/zero/ where I live. If your referring to once your in country, I can’t think of much. So policies are basically the same.

I do know you can’t enter US without being vaccinated, I believe that is the same. Could depend on mode of travel for entering.

The more I read the less informed you seem to be unfortunately.

 

[x Tame Impala]

As always, this hoopla of an argument is nothing more than Leaf fans wanting every advantage available to them while eliminating advantages from smaller markets.

Leaf fans think the tax differences are substantial enough to change the whole league’s cap structure. But the advantages Toronto has in training facilities, amenities, scouting/training staff salaries, endorsements, quality of life, and the ability to pay players 90% of their deals via signing bonuses simply aren’t relevant to them or are negligible.

It’s ridiculous whining that has time and time again been proven wrong in each and every way.