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Player Discussion Leo Carlsson

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anezthes said:
Needs 14 points in the next 19 games to match last year's stats.
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Could see him having 25 points down the stretch, if Zegras gets back on his line and somehow the PP gets going. Could end up with maybe around 40, which is a very solid season for a 20 yo.

But He ain’t producing on that current line even when he is playing well. Cronin has totally neutered his offense like Zegras before him.
 
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The talent is there but the production is not. IMO he hasn't learned to play yet with the intensity required to succeed in the NHL. Hopefully he develops that as he physically and mentally matures.
 
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Leonardo87 said:
I didn't know Getzlaf was still in juniors at 19/20 yo. I started following the team around their 20th anniversary.

That really makes me feel better now about Leo's path of development. Also to note that Barkov only had 36 points in his 2nd NHL season at Leo's current age.
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Getz's game also translated well to the NHL. He didn't have a lot of "editing" to do to his game in the way that, say, Perry did, who had a more successful junior career but did a lot of things that weren't going to be as easy to pull off in the NHL. Nearly everything about Getz was tailor made for the NHL, he just had to keep honing what he already did and just focus on doing it better, there was hardly anything he had to unlearn. Perry OTOH kept doing all sorts of stuff that just wasn't gonna work against NHL defenders. Like Leo, he had a ton of "almost" plays in those first few years.

I'd say Leo's game is somewhere between those two in terms of ease of translation, IMO. He's not guaranteed to ever put it together of course, but his 19/20 season is way too early to worry about it.

Also note just how few 20 and unders typically are putting up significant production (like 40+ points). It's not many, most years you can count them on one hand.
 
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This won’t happen, but when Zegras gets back I’d like to move Leo to wing for a while. Have Zegras center the line.

Carlsson seems to be forcing the play too much and losing the puck. Let Zegras take on the responsibility and Leo can focus on shooting and passing when he wants.

Leo will be our #1 center, but for now it might be better to give him some slack to find his game.

John
 
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Kalv said:
#4 overall Smith who should be just as a long term project, now has more points than Leo this season.
Fantilli obviously has more than Leo too.
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Leo is 3rd in goals on the Ducks. Fantilli is 6th in goals, and Smith is 8th in goals on their respected teams. Has also played less games than them.

Ducks have a 12.5% PP, Sharks have a 17.9%, and Columbus has a 23.1% PP

Ducks are dead last in the league with a 2.37 G/GP and 109 GF
San Jose has a 2.55 G/GP and 125 GF
Columbus has a 3.26 G/GP and 153 GF

Would Love to see how much Adam and Will can produce on this Ducks team.
 
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Leonardo87 said:
Leo is 3rd in goals on the Ducks. Fantilli is 6th in goals, and Smith is 8th in goals on their respected teams. Has also played less games than them.

Ducks have a 12.5% PP, Sharks have a 17.9%, and Columbus has a 23.1% PP

Ducks are dead last in the league with a 2.37 G/GP and 109 GF
San Jose has a 2.55 G/GP and 125 GF
Columbus has a 3.26 G/GP and 153 GF

Would Love to see how much Adam and Will can produce on this Ducks team.
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Yes, I also think Leo has the best 2 way potential of them.

But it matters nothing as long as we're wasting his development. Sorry for yet another whiny post from me :/ but just wanted to point out the fact itself (Smith has more points than Leo)
 
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Kalv said:
Yes, I also think Leo has the best 2 way potential of them.

But it matters nothing as long as we're wasting his development. Sorry for yet another whiny post from me :/ but just wanted to point out the fact itself (Smith has more points than Leo)
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I'm not happy about his production either, but look at the team and coach he is playing for. One good thing , He is already miles better defensively than all his forward draft peers, and is more responsible in his own zone than most of the Ducks forwards. They really should let him kill some penalties. PK is bottom 5 now, so can't get much worse.
 
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Yeah we can only make so many excuses for Leo. Yes he’s young, yes his linemates aren’t the best. At the sane time though, yes he needs to stop passing up the middle to the other team, yes he needs to learn that on a rush a 3 foot drop pass and not getting yourself open helps nobody. He needs to be better. I’m not worried long term, but short term he has his own figuring out to do, because new linemates won’t fix all of his current shortcomings.
 
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ScarTroy said:
Yeah we can only make so many excuses for Leo. Yes he’s young, yes his linemates aren’t the best. At the sane time though, yes he needs to stop passing up the middle to the other team, yes he needs to learn that on a rush a 3 foot drop pass and not getting yourself open helps nobody. He needs to be better. I’m not worried long term, but short term he has his own figuring out to do, because new linemates won’t fix all of his current shortcomings.
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Better be careful, a certain ninja turtle mod might ban you for this kind of talk around here 🤫
 
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ScarTroy said:
Yeah we can only make so many excuses for Leo. Yes he’s young, yes his linemates aren’t the best. At the sane time though, yes he needs to stop passing up the middle to the other team, yes he needs to learn that on a rush a 3 foot drop pass and not getting yourself open helps nobody. He needs to be better. I’m not worried long term, but short term he has his own figuring out to do, because new linemates won’t fix all of his current shortcomings.
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All of this is true, but there's issues here that go beyond Leo's own issues he can work on as an individual. Almost everyone not named Terry or Lacombe is regressing offensively while this team is tracking at the bottom offensively (and defensively if you look at the metrics)

Zegras, we all know his offense has cratered under Cronin. He was starting to pick it up before his injury but he was still having an awful year before that.

McTavish is struggling heavily.

Last year his PPG was 0.67. This year it's 0.475

Vatrano had 37 goals and 60 points. This year he's on pace for 20 goals and 43 points.

Fabbri played at a 38 point pace. This year he's playing at a 27 point pace.

Last year Mintyukov's totals prorated over 82 games was a 36 point pace. This year he's on pace for 21.

Zellweger was playing at a 0.34 ppg pace last season while still figuring out the NHL. This year he's at 0.32 ppg. Which isn't huge, but it's still a regression.

There's no data to compare to for Gauthier but who knows how much better he'd be under different circumstances.

The point is, in these circumstances, with the team in the toilet both Offensively and defensively regression across the board, especially with our kids (and that's comparing to last year's stats. A year where we were still dogshit and got a lottery pick) I think it's perfectly fair to question what is going into the actual development process behind the scenes. How these kids are being trained, how their mistakes are being addressed by the coaches and trainers, how they're being deployed. Because it seems to me that this organization from the GMs down to the hockey personnel (coaches and trainers) seem to only care about defensive play given that we have a coach that has admitted he doesn't have changes to make to the offensive systems because any changes would compromise the defensive play of the team. The same defense that is bottom of the league in every metric that matters aside from the ones that are being dictated by the strong play of our goalies.

Could Leo do more for himself to improve his own mistakes? Of course. But I think it's personally reasonable and quite necessary to ask questions about why things are the way they are and to what extent the coaching staff is failing these kids. This was a season we should have seen improvement from them. Outside of Lacombe and Gauthier can you really say that about any of the U-23 skaters on this team? Is it all of their faults that they're not playing better?
 
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HanSolo said:
All of this is true, but there's issues here that go beyond Leo's own issues he can work on as an individual. Almost everyone not named Terry or Lacombe is regressing offensively while this team is tracking at the bottom offensively (and defensively if you look at the metrics)

Zegras, we all know his offense has cratered under Cronin. He was starting to pick it up before his injury but he was still having an awful year before that.

McTavish is struggling heavily.

Last year his PPG was 0.67. This year it's 0.475

Vatrano had 37 goals and 60 points. This year he's on pace for 20 goals and 43 points.

Fabbri played at a 38 point pace. This year he's playing at a 27 point pace.

Last year Mintyukov's totals prorated over 82 games was a 36 point pace. This year he's on pace for 21.

Zellweger was playing at a 0.34 ppg pace last season while still figuring out the NHL. This year he's at 0.32 ppg. Which isn't huge, but it's still a regression.

There's no data to compare to for Gauthier but who knows how much better he'd be under different circumstances.

The point is, in these circumstances, with the team in the toilet both Offensively and defensively regression across the board, especially with our kids (and that's comparing to last year's stats. A year where we were still dogshit and got a lottery pick) I think it's perfectly fair to question what is going into the actual development process behind the scenes. How these kids are being trained, how their mistakes are being addressed by the coaches and trainers, how they're being deployed. Because it seems to me that this organization from the GMs down to the hockey personnel (coaches and trainers) seem to only care about defensive play given that we have a coach that has admitted he doesn't have changes to make to the offensive systems because any changes would compromise the defensive play of the team. The same defense that is bottom of the league in every metric that matters aside from the ones that are being dictated by the strong play of our goalies.

Could Leo do more for himself to improve his own mistakes? Of course. But I think it's personally reasonable and quite necessary to ask questions about why things are the way they are and to what extent the coaching staff is failing these kids. This was a season we should have seen improvement from them. Outside of Lacombe and Gauthier can you really say that about any of the U-23 skaters on this team? Is it all of their faults that they're not playing better?
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No I definitely agree with all this, and this is the reason I want Cronin gone. His boring system bothers me, but I could stomach it if the kids were progressing, but they are regressing. I just also think we are all pretending that if a new coach came Leo would all of a sudden be rid of his issues, but quite a few of those he’s going to have to overcome on his own, coaches can only do so much.

robbieboy3686 said:
Better be careful, a certain ninja turtle mod might ban you for this kind of talk around here 🤫
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Eh, I’m probably second or third in line as a Leo apologist behind him. It is true he’s young, and compared to the picks around him the surrounding cast is much inferior. He just also had his own warts to work through himself.
 
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ScarTroy said:
No I definitely agree with all this, and this is the reason I want Cronin gone. His boring system bothers me, but I could stomach it if the kids were progressing, but they are regressing. I just also think we are all pretending that if a new coach came Leo would all of a sudden be rid of his issues, but quite a few of those he’s going to have to overcome on his own, coaches can only do so much.


Eh, I’m probably second or third in line as a Leo apologist behind him. It is true he’s young, and compared to the picks around him the surrounding cast is much inferior. He just also had his own warts to work through himself.
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No I don't think that's gonna turn it all around but I do believe it could help a lot. Get Leo away from a guy he has no chemistry with, get a coach and trainers that can actually work through with him on facilitating his strengths and cleaning up his weaknesses. I don't think any of that is happening right now with the exception of the forced pairing with Killorn which I know for a fact is a continuing failure.
 
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While I generally agree with the points being made here about Leo, I think we need to be careful about evaluating our young players using points. Cronin’s system massively suppresses offense and the PP is a joke. If Ducks ever hire a coach that installs a more aggressive system and a competent power play, we will see the point totals rise for our young players.
 
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Deuce22 said:
While I generally agree with the points being made here about Leo, I think we need to be careful about evaluating our young players using points. Cronin’s system massively suppresses offense and the PP is a joke. If Ducks ever hire a coach that installs a more aggressive system and a competent power play, we will see the point totals rise for our young players.
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I'd be furious if I was one of the young dudes on the Ducks. Cronin is f***ing them out of $$$ and the fans out of entertainment with his (not defense FIRST but: ) defense ONLY system.
 
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ohcomeonref said:
I'd be furious if I was one of the young dudes on the Ducks. Cronin is f***ing them out of $$$ and the fans out of entertainment with his (not defense FIRST but:) defense ONLY system.
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The funny thing about the "defense only system" is the team is still terrible at defense!!!!! Only saving grace is goalkeeping and when the goalkeeping is not out of this world, we get stretches like the last road trip and game last night.
 
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