Player Discussion Leo Carlsson

[freikugel]

Kinda made me sad to hear him talk about how he felt like it was a good time to move on and leave room for Zell, Lacombe and Minty. Like he's right, but there's something sad about him becoming the "old man" who needs to step aside for the new kids.

If only Killorn and Gudas had the same mentality

 

[HanSolo]

If only Killorn and Gudas had the same mentality

I mean. I doubt any team in the league would trade for Killorn. We'd have to trade a future just to get rid of him but we're not strapped for cap space. Gudas you could maybe flip to a desperate buyer.

 

[Leonardo87]

I mean sometimes, yes. A lot of his failed passes are the direct result of Killorn and Leason not skating hard enough to get to the areas of the pass or not looking. And then you mix in the obvious dunderheaded bullshit from Killorn be it shooting the puck right at a defender's legs, passing the puck to nobody, getting muscled off the puck or, especially, dumping the puck before Leo and Leason are in position to go chase (KILLORN RANT YOU CAN SKIP: this seriously annoys me more than anything else our players do. He just mindlessly dumps the puck in because that's what he thinks he has to do but it's almost always basically a turnover because he does it before his linemates have the opportunity to retrieve it. Dump and chase is a dinosaur system in this day and age as is but the point of the strategy is to position your linemates to go win board battles and leave the defense disrupted so you can get net front chances. Killorn seems to think the only thing he needs to do is dump and pray for a forechecking recovery when the opponents inevitably collect the dumped in puck. I get on Mac's case about choices that might indicate diminished hockey IQ but Killorn's constant dump/no chase all season long, I think he might actually be a moron...clinically)

There’s a lot here but want to reply to this part. The “Dump and Chase” is what kills that line and Leo’s chances to create any offense.

Dump and chase are usually what a 4th line does or when you are protecting a lead and trying to kill time.

I think when he adds more muscle he will have more successful entries, although him carrying the puck now generates more scoring chances than the dump and chase. Led to the 1st goal of the game last night.

I’m not trying to knock Killorn he is still very serviceable but he should not be with the Ducks potential future 1C. Putting Leason also up there is just too much . They can post whatever projected line ups they want but that is the 3rd line now.

I get Cronin wants to win, but he needs to look at the long term success of this franchise and not the short term. That is why he was brought in, not to win now but develop these kids to becoming competitive , and growing “their” game not “his”.

Last game was a step in the right direction but with this team you just don’t know how it will progress, streaky and inconsistent and the lack of PP production is a big reason for that.

 

[gilfaizon]

I mean. I doubt any team in the league would trade for Killorn. We'd have to trade a future just to get rid of him but we're not strapped for cap space. Gudas you could maybe flip to a desperate buyer.

Hoping next year we take the next step to really competing for a playoff spot (not doing too bad at the moment either), but if we are struggling again I'd expect Gudas to be dealt at next years deadline. He's a guy that playoff teams covet, even if he will be 35

 

[JAHV]

If only Killorn and Gudas had the same mentality

Those are very different circumstances. Those guys signed here under the instructions that they were going to be tasked with leading the kids through the rebuild. There's no reason for them to step aside.

Fowler had been here forever.

 

[HanSolo]

There’s a lot here but want to reply to this part. The “Dump and Chase” is what kills that line and Leo’s chances to create any offense.

Dump and chase are usually what a 4th line does or when you are protecting a lead and trying to kill time.

I think when he adds more muscle he will have more successful entries, although him carrying the puck now generates more scoring chances than the dump and chase. Led to the 1st goal of the game last night.

I’m not trying to knock Killorn he is still very serviceable but he should not be with the Ducks potential future 1C. Putting Leason also up there is just too much . They can post whatever projected line ups they want but that is the 3rd line now.

I get Cronin wants to win, but he needs to look at the long term success of this franchise and not the short term. That is why he was brought in, not to win now but develop these kids to becoming competitive , and growing “their” game not “his”.

Last game was a step in the right direction but with this team you just don’t know how it will progress, streaky and inconsistent and the lack of PP production is a big reason for that.

Well just pushing the dump and chase part along, that was a viable strategy before Pittsburgh and Vegas changed the way the game is played. Back when there wasn't as high a demand for speed and size was more valued it made sense to have one guy dump to the end boards, a goalie rarely dared to leave the crease to go get the puck and it was usually a 50/50 shot that a line with the right blend of strength and speed could get the puck and capitalize off the havoc of the dump in. At the same time and for the same reasons, board cycling used to be effective as well.

These days, goalies and their coaches are a lot more comfortable with goalies going for a retrieval or the last man back defender is first to go in and turn the dump into a possession change. That's not to say it never works and teams don't still run it. They do. But dumping it in when your linemates are well behind you or at least we'll behind 1 or 2 defenders who are already in the area and ready to go get the puck behind the net, it's just an instant turnover and Killorn does it constantly.

I'm not trying to suggest Killorn isn't serviceable either. He's actually a fairly effective penalty killer. But that's damn near the only time he looks like a good hockey player. At 5 on 5 and on the powerplay he plays like he should be in the minors and it's only made worse by the fact that he has, without exaggeration, zero chemistry with Leo. He's set up Leo a small handful of times but those were on two on ones that only a blind person could f*** the pass up. In offensive situations he's a possession liability and he should be on our fourth line but because he's a veteran and makes more than 5 million dollars a year he gets shoved onto Leo's wing for "mentorship." Like it is inherently maddening that Cronin's idea for veteran mentorship for a guy who is supposed to be our 1C one day is a guy who cannot handle basic plays offensively anymore.

I'll give Cronin and the staff their flowers. The past three games have shown improvements, but every game Leo is stuck with Killorn is a continuing failure by the coaching staff and you could argue management.

 

[Daz28]

Seems like there's a conditioning issue with Leo.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Seems like there's a conditioning issue with Leo.

Well the ducks told him to push a little hard and he told him that he knows his body best.. you guys forget that? It was during the summer. Body is still growing into form. In 2 years time he will be a monster

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

He’s a good passer, but not a smart passer. He makes some painfully bad choices at times.

 

[Gliff]

He’s a good passer, but not a smart passer. He makes some painfully bad choices at times.

We had another center like that for a while.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

We had another center like that for a while.

The occasional backhand passes were annoying but Getz was a very smart player overall.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

He’s a good passer, but not a smart passer. He makes some painfully bad choices at times.

Yes, like sometimes he has the room to go wide and beat people. Instead he tries to go through them and often times loses the puck.. I think when things are not going well for him.. He seems like he's hard on himself. Need to get past that mental stage.. I really think he is in a sophomore slump.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Yes, like sometimes he has the room to go wide and beat people. Instead he tries to go through them and often times loses the puck.. I think when things are not going well for him.. He seems like he's hard on himself. Need to get past that mental stage.. I really think he is in a sophomore slump.

I dunno if Carlsson has taken off to consider his second season as a sophomore slump. He's got 87 games in two seasons now, 55 last year and 32 this year. So far, I'd say he's still in his rookie season.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

It almost sounds like maybe Leo isn’t getting the best coaching. But that’s not possible, is it?

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I dunno if Carlsson has taken off to consider his second season as a sophomore slump. He's got 87 games in two seasons now, 55 last year and 32 this year. So far, I'd say he's still in his rookie season.

Well since someone brought up Getzlaf, Leo’s games played numbers in his first two years are going to be pretty similar. Getz played I think 57 games in his first year before playing a full second season. And frankly it’s not close. Bad, bad comparison for Leo.

 

[Vipers31]

Well since someone brought up Getzlaf, Leo’s games played numbers in his first two years are going to be pretty similar. Getz played I think 57 games in his first year before playing a full second season. And frankly it’s not close. Bad, bad comparison for Leo.

Let's be fair to him - in the D+2 season Leo's now in, Getz was still playing exclusively junior hockey.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Well since someone brought up Getzlaf, Leo’s games played numbers in his first two years are going to be pretty similar. Getz played I think 57 games in his first year before playing a full second season. And frankly it’s not close. Bad, bad comparison for Leo.

I can't compare Leo to Getz. Getz first season played in the pros (AHL/NHL) was in his D+3 season, where he played a total of 74 games between the two leagues. Carlsson's first season as a pro was his D+1 season and only got in 55 games.

Too bad we didn't have Carlsson stay in the SHL for at least a season to play as a 1C, which his SHL team did say that would be Carlsson's position if he stayed there for his D+1 season. Carlsson would have developed better as a 1C in the SHL as an 18-year old than doing the load mgmt thing with Verbeek. It does look like we did rush Carlsson to the NHL.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Let's be fair to him - in the D+2 season Leo's now in, Getz was still playing exclusively junior hockey.

That certainly helps, although Getz was eased in by playing just 12 minutes per game in his first season. Insulating the kids is worth a lot!

 

[goonsaredumb]

I think Barkov's career trajectory is worth looking at when it comes to Carlsson, Leo got compared to Barkov a lot as a prospect and their careers so far are eerily similar

Barkov played 54 games and Leo played 55 games as 18 year old rookie centers drafted 2nd overall both putting up similar point totals 24 for Barkov, 29 for Leo

Barkov put up only 36 points in 71 games in his sophomore season, Leo is on pace for 33 in 76

It wasn't until his 3rd year in the league that Barkov broke out and put up 59 points in 66 games

We can only hope Leo becomes anything like the player Barkov has become but Barkov should show us it's way too soon to get concerned about Leo.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Let's be fair to him - in the D+2 season Leo's now in, Getz was still playing exclusively junior hockey.

So in other words, he was being developed slower and not being asked to do things he wasn't ready to do...like face opposing teams best defensive players or best offensive players often

 

[Leonardo87]

Let's be fair to him - in the D+2 season Leo's now in, Getz was still playing exclusively junior hockey.

I didn't know Getzlaf was still in juniors at 19/20 yo. I started following the team around their 20th anniversary.

That really makes me feel better now about Leo's path of development. Also to note that Barkov only had 36 points in his 2nd NHL season at Leo's current age.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Getzlaf supposedly made an impression to the point he almost made the team out of his draft year, but back then it was a lot more rare to see 18 year olds jump into the league

The year after was the lost season

Even 05/06 they still had him and Perry coming up and down from Portland. There was a lot of buzz then about them and Dustin Penner, that line dominated the AHL and could have been something special if Penner had stayed and committed to being great

 

[Gliff]

Getzlaf supposedly made an impression to the point he almost made the team out of his draft year, but back then it was a lot more rare to see 18 year olds jump into the league

The year after was the lost season

Even 05/06 they still had him and Perry coming up and down from Portland. There was a lot of buzz then about them and Dustin Penner, that line dominated the AHL and could have been something special if Penner had stayed and committed to being great

Getzlaf was pissed to be back in junior. He didnt give a shit about juniors after being drafted. He was barely PPG in the WHL in his D+2.

 

[70sSanO]

Right now I’m looking at Barkov as a comparison. Leo will hopefully show the Barkov offensive upside soon.

I think the toughness will lag just as Barkov was considered too soft to win a cup for a long time. Barkov had less than a hit a game until 23/24.

Leo will never be the force Getzlaf was.

John