Value of: Lehkonen to Rangers

[Habs10025]

Montreal will likely resign Lehkonen .

 

[Legend123]

Wonder why he's top 10 in the league amongst forwards with >300 minutes played at 5v5 in xGA/60, despite playing for the team with the 3rd worst xGA/60. On the PK he's been slightly disappointing like the whole team, because there's just no system there, but at 5v5 he's arguably been one of the best defensive forward this season.

the eye test disagrees. Advanced stats are meaningless. Hes been useless and I've watched all of his games

 

[Kairi Zaide]

the eye test disagrees. Advanced stats are meaningless. Hes been useless and I've watched all of his games

They're not meaningless - especially when it's something consistent season after season. And I've watched Lehkonen as many times as you have. Defense is not strictly played in the defensive zone - Lehk is really strong in preventing zone entries.

If your basis for "being useless" is that he's not a top 6 player, then yes, you're right. He's not the best passer, and he is one of the most frustrating players when it comes to finishing. But defensively, he's far from useless, and he's been far from useless for the past few seasons. The team around him being awful doesn't change that. His goaltending being awful doesn't change that. Maybe if your eye test focused on the entirety of his play rather than just the "big mistakes" he can make (which is something very common when you have a predetermined assessment of a player - confirmation bias basically), you'd see that.

 

[McJedi]

He's a bottom line player! Habs fans overvaluing every player

I normally beat up Habs fans for some of their hot take trades, but I’ll defend them here. I think Lehkonen could fetch a low 2nd. He’s a good playoff type. RFA.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Lehk is kinda useless in the season. He does nothing good. Even defensively, he's been subpar.
In the playoffs tho he's great at playing shutdown defense

OK this is a lie.

He backaches, forechecks and.plays defense really well in the regular season


He's so f***ing terrible at finishing, though

 

[Legend123]

They're not meaningless - especially when it's something consistent season after season. And I've watched Lehkonen as many times as you have. Defense is not strictly played in the defensive zone - Lehk is really strong in preventing zone entries.

If your basis for "being useless" is that he's not a top 6 player, then yes, you're right. He's not the best passer, and he is one of the most frustrating players when it comes to finishing. But defensively, he's far from useless, and he's been far from useless for the past few seasons. The team around him being awful doesn't change that. His goaltending being awful doesn't change that. Maybe if your eye test focused on the entirety of his play rather than just the "big mistakes" he can make (which is something very common when you have a predetermined assessment of a player - confirmation bias basically), you'd see that.

he literally does nothing both defensively and offensively this season. The PK is also the worst or close to it in the NHL.

 

[Machinehead]

He doesn't really do anything for us.

We need a center.

 

[Baksfamous112]

I would take Kravstov straight up or Ranger’s late first.

 

[HuGo Sham]

He's a bottom line player! Habs fans overvaluing every player

you're wrong. he plays up and down the lineup- and lined up with Danault and Gallagher through that SC run last summer.
There's 0 reason to move him. He's 25 , an excellent PKer, cost-controlled RFA and only making 2 mill. Gorton won't trade him for a 2nd.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I would take Kravstov straight up or Ranger’s late first.

Hahahaha

 

[bernmeister]

Lemme ask the Rangers board representative here on the Trade boards.

Paging @bernmeister , paging @bernmeister

I don't claim to be the NYR board representative
I claim to speak for bernmeister.

You asked, so I will respond below...

Lekhonen to Rangers, Geo to Oilers, Oilers 2nd round pick to Habs?

thank you no see below

via The Athletic: How to fix the Rangers' forward group: Internal solutions, plus trade targets for the top 6, third line and fourth line

Artturi Lehkonen has been all over the trade-targets lists for a bit, and sources told The Athletic that Drury and his former boss, Canadiens hockey operations chief Jeff Gorton, have been in contact regarding Lehkonen, who is a pending restricted free agent with arbitration rights and is due a $2.3 million qualifying offer. The talks are believed to have been preliminary.

Lehkonen is the sort of upgrade the Rangers would want not just for now but for the long haul. Sammy Blais filled this role before his torn ACL in November; Lehkonen will come in with a bigger RFA price tag beyond this season, but he does more and is better at it than Blais, having been a consistent 10-plus goal scorer his first four seasons before the shortened 2020-21 and ugly numbers this season for the bottom-dwelling Canadiens. He’s a third-liner and penalty-kill guy who contributes on offense and doesn’t kill you defensively. His 58.5 percent xG share is far and away the best on Montreal this season, so he must be doing something right amid all the wrong happening up there.

He won’t be cheap because he isn’t a rental. But Lehkonen gives the Rangers more options and a better third line even without other changes.

Athletic is wrong if it is inferring NY wants vets esp anyone w/term who we cannot pick up after this season, but would still be responsible for their cap, which even if moving, may cost.
so NO NO NO

Lehkonen at 1.15 mil gets a 1st or 2 2nds or a Kravstov.

NO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NONO NO NO

have you forgotten the bernmeister rule?
until there is enough depth -- currently only enuf for internal needs and not a surplus for trade, possibly Jones notwithstanding --- no dealing of bluest blue chips.

MAYBE maybe MAY consider youth for youth if worthwhile but not otherwise

I would take Kravstov straight up or Ranger’s late first.

see above, as many no(s) as it takes

Rangers have sufficient depth internally
we need to look to deal Strome and give those mins to Barron and Chytil then also Kravtsov
no adding vets which interferes with that plan

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I would take Kravstov straight up or Ranger’s late first.

I’m sure you would.

 

[Kocur Dill]

He is a decent 3rd liner with a good 200ft game. He is also good at PK and never gives up on the play. The guy gives 110% every shift for a 2,3M payroll. He is a valuable assett at his payroll and I`m struggling to see why Habs would trade him? There are plenty of others I would deal before Lehkonen.

Sounds like a Jesper Fast type player.

Since we don't need an LW with Panarin, Kreider, and Lafreniere, maybe a 3 way with Carolina? Send Lehkonen to Carolina, Fast to NY and xxx to MTL?

Lol. Yeah right. Drury and Gorts ain't doing each other favors and Carolina is giving the Finger 11 to MTL

Makes sense in a vacuum though.

 

[eco's bones]

Just not feeling this at all. I mean there are a lot of other options around the league other than Lehkonen who I’m sure is fine for what he does but not so exciting that I’m in a hurry to send anything all that tangible for and the $2.3 seems a bit pricey.

Rangers PK is third in the league if I’m to believe what they were saying on our telecast last night anyway. We also need Georgiev as our backup for the rest of the year because every team needs two goaltenders and the Oilers can go look somewhere else. He’ll probably be available in the summer though.

 

[Lolonegoal]

He's a bottom line player! Habs fans overvaluing every player

I don't think they're overvaluing him, just dont believe it's a wise decision to trade at fair value.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Habs fan saying I'm more than happy keeping him. Good role player and there's really no urgency. If there isn't a trade that makes both teams happy there's no benefit really.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

he literally does nothing both defensively and offensively this season. The PK is also the worst or close to it in the NHL.

His "offensive" production is more than passable considering the rest of the team, especially for a bottom 6er. He could definitely have had more goals. You're still stuck on the "he's not a top 6 quality winger so he's useless" mindset. Regardless of that, he has 12 points, 11 of them being primary, all at 5v5. That's good for top 150 amongst forwards in the league (top 120 if looking at /60 rates). He outperforms a lot of other players with similar quality of competition.

And regarding his defensive impact, you sound like the kind of people who'd say the stay at home d-man who blocks shots and hits but gets stuck in his d-zone more often than not has a greater defensive impact than a d-man who might struggle a bit more in the d-zone but who is far better at clearing the zone and preventing entries (to the point of allowing less chances against and less goals against). Defense is NOT just hits, blocked shots and takeaways. If he's doing NOTHING defensively, how is he amongst the league's best forwards in scoring chances against? (The value of "scoring chances", "expected goals" and such is that it isolates the f***ing awful goaltending the Habs have had this season.
And why is it that whenever players play with him, they allow ~50% less scoring chances compared to when they're not playing with him? And for the record, these players still produce similarly offensively (maybe a bit more actually), so it's not a case of him just being a low event guy.

Regarding the PK, yeah, I've said it - he hasn't been great. But a lot of that has more to do with the whole system. He's almost always stuck with Chiarot and Savard, both of which have no idea how to defend, especially this season. That doesn't help at all. There's only so much a winger can do on the PK if the faceoff is lost. As I said - yeah, he could be better, but in the end, that doesn't remove all of the good things he does at even strength.

Reality remains that :
1) Lehk is a valuable bottom 6er, and would be on practically any team in the league
2) You might need to rethink how you assess defensive impact

 

[Legend123]

His "offensive" production is more than passable considering the rest of the team, especially for a bottom 6er. He could definitely have had more goals. You're still stuck on the "he's not a top 6 quality winger so he's useless" mindset. Regardless of that, he has 12 points, 11 of them being primary, all at 5v5. That's good for top 150 amongst forwards in the league (top 120 if looking at /60 rates). He outperforms a lot of other players with similar quality of competition.

And regarding his defensive impact, you sound like the kind of people who'd say the stay at home d-man who blocks shots and hits but gets stuck in his d-zone more often than not has a greater defensive impact than a d-man who might struggle a bit more in the d-zone but who is far better at clearing the zone and preventing entries (to the point of allowing less chances against and less goals against). Defense is NOT just hits, blocked shots and takeaways. If he's doing NOTHING defensively, how is he amongst the league's best forwards in scoring chances against? (The value of "scoring chances", "expected goals" and such is that it isolates the f***ing awful goaltending the Habs have had this season.
And why is it that whenever players play with him, they allow ~50% less scoring chances compared to when they're not playing with him? And for the record, these players still produce similarly offensively (maybe a bit more actually), so it's not a case of him just being a low event guy.

Regarding the PK, yeah, I've said it - he hasn't been great. But a lot of that has more to do with the whole system. He's almost always stuck with Chiarot and Savard, both of which have no idea how to defend, especially this season. That doesn't help at all. There's only so much a winger can do on the PK if the faceoff is lost. As I said - yeah, he could be better, but in the end, that doesn't remove all of the good things he does at even strength.

Reality remains that :
1) Lehk is a valuable bottom 6er, and would be on practically any team in the league
2) You might need to rethink how you assess defensive impact

Even defensively he's been anywhere from useless to meh on most nights.
Thus, useless offensively and mainly useless defensively. he's a dime a dozen and u could fetch a similar player for a 5th rounder. Who in their right mind would pay up one of their top 10 prospect or 2nd rounder pick.

Im sure one team might, but I know if I were GM I would def not

 

[H3ckt1k]

Wonder why he's top 10 in the league amongst forwards with >300 minutes played at 5v5 in xGA/60, despite playing for the team with the 3rd worst xGA/60. On the PK he's been slightly disappointing like the whole team, because there's just no system there, but at 5v5 he's arguably been one of the best defensive forward this season.

Came here to say this

 

[Halakitlikethat]

Habs fans overrate Lehkonen but I think they could get atleast a second round pick for him .

 

[jay from jersey]

Habs fans overrate Lehkonen but I think they could get atleast a second round pick for him .

This. He’s a solid 2-way 3rd liner that will get between 20-30pts a year. He’s also good on the forecheck.
I’ve been beating the drum for Lehkonen to NYR for a while now, I’m glad Drury has interest in him as well. It just makes sense.
I d love to see a 3rd line of goodrow -Barron-Lehkonen

no more then a 2Nd and a prospect like Renunnen.
That should get it done.
Lehkonen is also a RFA, so that’s is def a factor when making the deal... especially for a team like NYR who’ll be close to the cap max next season. Plus Blais should be ready to go at the start of next season, a slight maybe for the playoffs....
I like Armia as well, but not his contract.

 

[HabsAddict]

As usual, we should send our players to benefit others...in your dreams.

There is zero reason to trade Lehky unless we get more then a second or a grade A prospect. Don't like it? Don't bother.

 

[Gaud]

I don't think they're overvaluing him, just dont believe it's a wise decision to trade at fair value.

Yeah i agree with you here. The guy seems to accept his role in defensive situations (PK, defensive faceoffs, etc) and, more importantly, has a worth ethic that resonates with the core values that every team wants their players to have. He certainly doesn't hurt us and i dont expect to overpay for him. I don't get why the habs would trade him unless the return is more than his perceived worth, or as a piece in a larger deal.

It sucks; ive never seen anyone get so many high-quality chances and not score.

What ive been hearing about in terms of return are Blais with a pick. I've also heard Kravstov's right being on the table, though that may have just been thrown around

 

[Jaynki]

Honestly as a habs fan, the price for a Lehkonen should be a 2nd.

Would be nice depth for a playoff team and habs would add another top 60 pick.

Dont see him fetching a 1st rd pick. I dont know how to value Kravtsov but if habs can trade Lehk for Kravstov... It would be a very worthy risk.

 

[alasania94]

Even defensively he's been anywhere from useless to meh on most nights.
Thus, useless offensively and mainly useless defensively. he's a dime a dozen and u could fetch a similar player for a 5th rounder. Who in their right mind would pay up one of their top 10 prospect or 2nd rounder pick.

Im sure one team might, but I know if I were GM I would def not

you replied to none of the great points below, i wonder why?

And regarding his defensive impact, you sound like the kind of people who'd say the stay at home d-man who blocks shots and hits but gets stuck in his d-zone more often than not has a greater defensive impact than a d-man who might struggle a bit more in the d-zone but who is far better at clearing the zone and preventing entries (to the point of allowing less chances against and less goals against). Defense is NOT just hits, blocked shots and takeaways. If he's doing NOTHING defensively, how is he amongst the league's best forwards in scoring chances against? (The value of "scoring chances", "expected goals" and such is that it isolates the f***ing awful goaltending the Habs have had this season.
And why is it that whenever players play with him, they allow ~50% less scoring chances compared to when they're not playing with him? And for the record, these players still produce similarly offensively (maybe a bit more actually), so it's not a case of him just being a low event guy.