Confirmed with Link: Legwand to Wings for Eaves, Jarnkrok and a cond. 3rd Part II

[InjuredChoker]

5'10? 130 pounds? What? Threats?

You're just making stuff up now. Jarnkrok and his agent have denied any threats and Holland had at most said "antsy." The assistant GM denied any rumors as well. Jarnkrok is now 6'0 and 180+ so where are you getting all this nonsense? Why are you bringing up his pace? It was his first year in North America. Nearly all our prospects go through that struggle. Jurco sure did. Tatar did. Now look at them.

Furthermore, he becomes more a part of the Wing's future when he's basically their only shot at a top6 center in the system. We're very shallow there in terms of youth.

If you have to outright lie and make stuff up to justify your argument, you probably don't have a strong argument.

eyes can lie but i don't think he's that big.

nill said on one of his dallas interviews that zetterberg is like 170 lbs soaking wet. could be wrong but i whink something like 5'11 is accurate for calle. and really, really doubt he's over 180 lbs.

 

[The Zermanator]

You'd think Jarnkrok is going to be a 100 point player based on posts here. You'd also think the success and future of the organization was based solely on him. Comical.

It was a desperation trade, no doubt. But don't lie to yourselves in attempt to feel better. Calle Jarnkrok was not the "future" of the organization. At most he's going to be a 50-60 point center. A potential #2C isn't going to send the whole house crashing down to the ground.

And then there's the crowd that's saying "well, when the Red Wings are healthy where does Legwand fit in? There's Datysuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan, etc"

Well, where does a 5'10'' 130lb unproven center that just recently started to show some progress for FIFTEEN GAMES IN THE AHL, fit into that list? If Jarnkrok is as good as many here lead us to believe he'd already be at a PPG+ clip in the AHL. But he's not. He's not *that* good.

So it's pretty simple, to be honest. Jarnkrok wanted IT with the Red Wings that he hasn't earned quite yet, handed to him. Holland knew there wasn't a good chance he's going to see it. Jarnkrok threatens defecting so Holland got something for him. Plain and simple. Easy ****. Holland saw the writing on the wall. Whether Jarnkrok liked it or not, and he clearly didn't like it, he was going to have to skate with the Griffins for another year or two and then play with the Red Wings. Realistically there wasn't going to be a spot open until Datsyuk retires.

Doesn't mean I like it. But, please, stop pretending that Calle Jarnkrok was the end-all.

Nobody said that, you're making a straw man argument.

And we don't have anyone like that, with the possible exception of Mantha (which is also unlikely). We don't have any bona fide superstars in the prospect pool. Our strength is in the quantity of quality players. Our prospect pool projects more as a St Louis or Boston, not stacked with superstars but filled with quality players. Losing Jarnkrok hits that hard.

 

[The Zermanator]

eyes can lie but i don't think he's that big.

nill said on one of his dallas interviews that zetterberg is like 170 lbs soaking wet. could be wrong but i whink something like 5'11 is accurate for calle. and really, really doubt he's over 180 lbs.

That's probably an exaggeration. But he's a lot closer than that than he is to 5'10'', 130 lbs which I think is the point Flowah was making.

 

[TatarTangle]

5'10? 130 pounds? What? Threats?

Jesus, dude. Do you really think I think he's 5'10'' 130lbs? My God, man.

You're just making stuff up now. Jarnkrok and his agent have denied any threats and Holland had at most said "antsy." The assistant GM denied any rumors as well. Jarnkrok is now 6'0 and 180+ so where are you getting all this nonsense?

Of course they are going to deny it. You think it's good PR for a player that was recently traded to come out and say otherwise? Do you really think that?

"Hey Nashville, I see I was just traded to you. I just want to let you know that all those things that are rumoured about me going back to Sweden, yea, those are true. So if you don't play me right away that's what I'm doing"

Or

"Hey Nashville. Glad to be here. I just want to say all those rumours aren't true. I look forward to skating for you guys."

Come on man

Furthermore, he becomes more a part of the Wing's future when he's basically their only shot at a top6 center in the system. We're very shallow there in terms of youth.

Not disagreeing

If you have to outright lie and make stuff up to justify your argument, you probably don't have a strong argument.

Nothing I said was a lie.

 

[Flowah]

eyes can lie but i don't think he's that big.

nill said on one of his dallas interviews that zetterberg is like 170 lbs soaking wet. could be wrong but i whink something like 5'11 is accurate for calle. and really, really doubt he's over 180 lbs.

Alright, obviously stat fudging isn't uncommon in sports.

He's still far closer to his listed stats than he is to 5'10/130.

Of course they are going to deny it. You think it's good PR for a player that was recently traded to come out and say otherwise? Do you really think that?

So... our GM, assistant GM, and the player, and the agent both come out and deny it but... you still think it happened because what? "That's just what you'd expect them to say!"

Yeah. Okay. I also expect an innocent man to say "I didn't do it!" I wouldn't use that as a reason for saying "Well do you think guilty people just admit they killed someone? Yeah right!"

The burden is on you and it hasn't been met.

 

[TatarTangle]

So... our GM, assistant GM, and the player, and the agent both come out and deny it but... you still think it happened because what? "That's just what you'd expect them to say!"

Yeah. Okay. I also expect an innocent man to say "I didn't do it!" I wouldn't use that as a reason for saying "Well do you think guilty people just admit they killed someone? Yeah right!"

The burden is on you and it hasn't been met.

You just explained Public Relations. Thanks.

Oh, I really do think Calle Jarnkrok is 5'10'' 130lbs btw

 

[Flowah]

You just explained Public Relations. Thanks.

Oh, I really do think Calle Jarnkrok is 5'10'' 130lbs btw

So you have a "guilty until proven innocent" mentality. That's great. Once there are rumors, constantly couched as nothing but "pure speculation" by the people delivering them, you consider them facts despite what anyone else may say.

That's quite amazing.

If you don't think Jarnkrok is 5'10 and 130 lbs, maybe you shouldn't have said it. Or were you just exaggerating because you can't make your point adequately without it? Either way, it doesn't speak well about you. "I can only justify this trade if I greatly exaggerate the number! Because if I use the real ones, no one will think my argument has any merit whatsoever!"

Because 130 lbs sounds a lot worse than "He could use another 10 pounds" from his head coach. Because none of our players have ever had to put on weight in their development. Because none of our players are ever considered "too small" for the NHL and then go on to prove everyone wrong.

Riiiiiight.

 

[SirKillalot]

Two goals for the youngster last night: To me he looks awfully like a young Zetterberg.

Not bad for his first game: 2 goals, one of which was shorthanded AND unassisted. And he was named 1st star of the game.

Here are the two goals Jarnkrok scored for Milwaukee last night.





Hopefully he becomes a top 6 center in the NHL.

 

[Redwingsfan]

^^ Great goals. Glad to see him do well for his new team. He'll be a great player for Nashvillle. Legwand was very good last night, but I still hate this trade..

 

[RedHawkDown]

I'm still depressed.

Nyquist-Jarnkrok could have been beautiful

 

[bababooeyII]

Stop being depressed just listen to the Ken Holland defenders, they'll tell you the following:

He will never improve
He will never be more than a bottom six center
He will never be better than Joakim Andersson or Glendening (yes, the 4 assists Glendening)

So with that kind of crap they were lucky to get Legwand, got it? This is after Jiri Fischer called him their most talented prospect, and he was always ranked in their top 5, at one time he was their top ranked prospect. I hope that helps you.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Stop being depressed just listen to the Ken Holland defenders, they'll tell you the following:

He will never improve
He will never be more than a bottom six center
He will never be better than Joakim Andersson or Glendening (yes, the 4 assists Glendening)

So with that kind of crap they were lucky to get Legwand, got it? This is after Jiri Fischer called him their most talented prospect, and he was always ranked in their top 5, at one time he was their top ranked prospect. I hope that helps you.

What maybe one poster, I would like to see the people doing that.

Biggest one was the concern over his leaving for the SHL, which you left out. Must have missed these responses, David Legwand has three points and has been in on five goals in two games.

I still feel Jarnkrok will be successful if he stays and that he is in a better situation now in terms of lacking as much competition in Nashville to be given a bigger chance.

 

[Flowah]

Biggest one was the concern over his leaving for the SHL, which you left out.

That concern seems to be completely unfounded.

1. They were never anything more than rumors and speculation. Even the people who offered them up admitted it. I believe Mackenzie's exact words were "pure speculation."

2. Denied by absolutely everyone involved. From the GM, to the Assistant GM, to the player, to the agent. And sure you can say that it would be dumb for them to admit it, but if they are lying and it was absolutely a threatened possibility, Holland is going to look like a real ******* if it ends up happening. Might ruin his rep with the other GMs as a trading partner. Furthermore, I don't know why it makes sense to take rumors and speculation as fact and write off what the player, his agent, and management have actually explicitly said as just lies.

David Legwand has three points and has been in on five goals in two games

No one is saying Legwand isn't a good player who can't help the team right now. We were running with Andersson as our 1C for a game. Obviously Legwand is a huge improvement. But there are lots of players out there who could help this team right now. We just don't think it's wise to pay the cost with players like Pulkkinen, Mantha, Jarnkrok.

The one damn year I'd hoped for Holland to tell us the prices were too high and it's the year he chooses to go for it.

 

[SoupGuru]

Which prospects are we willing to trade to better the team right now?

 

[Flowah]

Which prospects are we willing to trade to better the team right now?

Depends on what you mean by better. Is it a rental for a run this year? Is it a long term investment to upgrade our defense? For the right return I'm open to trading just about anyone, except maybe Mantha.

I almost certainly did not want another forward.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

That concern seems to be completely unfounded.

1. They were never anything more than rumors and speculation. Even the people who offered them up admitted it. I believe Mackenzie's exact words were "pure speculation."

2. Denied by absolutely everyone involved. From the GM, to the Assistant GM, to the player, to the agent. And sure you can say that it would be dumb for them to admit it, but if they are lying and it was absolutely a threatened possibility, Holland is going to look like a real ******* if it ends up happening. Might ruin his rep with the other GMs as a trading partner. Furthermore, I don't know why it makes sense to take rumors and speculation as fact and write off what the player, his agent, and management have actually explicitly said as just lies.


No one is saying Legwand isn't a good player who can't help the team right now. We were running with Andersson as our 1C for a game. Obviously Legwand is a huge improvement. But there are lots of players out there who could help this team right now. We just don't think it's wise to pay the cost with players like Pulkkinen, Mantha, Jarnkrok.

The one damn year I'd hoped for Holland to tell us the prices were too high and it's the year he chooses to go for it.

Our GM said they were antsy that is a fact no? Is that just a lie? The rumors have been out there since Christmas, would he have pulled the trigger on it, I don't know. But his situation is different after 3pm Wednesday, so his comments should be different. Holland's antsy comment shouldn't outright be dismissed or the rumors that he didn't necessarily want to stay. Only the key players know one way or the other, it was much harder for him to crack the Wings lineup than Nashville though and his drop in value came from somewhere.

Honestly if I am a Nashville fan I hope it is the SHL rumor, he should stick around there because the opportunity exists for him to stay stateside. If it is because they decided he wouldn't put in the work to gain the strength or couldn't get higher than the third line or that Sheahan has just eclipsed him in a way making him totally expendable. Like I said if I am them I actually hope for the defection angle is more in line as it seems incredibly less likely he will step out on them than he would us.

When McKenzie or these kind of hockey insiders are willing to put their name behind speculation it means where they are hearing it from is reliable, also that the story they were told checks out at least in plausibility. It is what makes these guys who they are and not Eklund (minus the Flyers) in terms of what they report.

Either way the point was I think the SHL has been something on my mind since Christmas time. Doesn't change how I feel about him as a player, which is what the post was eluding to that I was responding to. To outright dismiss it seems a little foolish to me and it very well might have just been a minor factor since they could toll his contract and/or block it if they really made that choice. Still haven't seen a lot of people around here pretending he stinks overnight which is what was being said there.

I wish we could have worked something out to keep him or got more for him or a better package in terms of our perspective when he was shipped. Doesn't change the fact the player we did get is a pretty darn good hockey player that is likely to re-sign with us and most didn't pretend Jarnkrok was now awful.

 

[Marky9er]

I like the mix that this shapes up for next season. Great center depth, the veteran core in combination with the ELC and Bridge contracts of the younger players on the wing as well as DD. Everything considered there is a great window to compete. The goal should be to win while we still have Datsyuk, period.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I like the mix that this shapes up for next season. Great center depth, the veteran core in combination with the ELC and Bridge contracts of the younger players on the wing as well as DD. Everything considered there is a great window to compete. The goal should be to win while we still have Datsyuk, period.

I have to imagine they feel pretty good about being able to re-sign Legwand. The question is for how long and whether he can maintain a high level of play and not fall off to Bert, Sammy, Cleary levels of fail.

You also have to hope Weiss can become a solid player. And stay healthy. You have to also hope Helm can actually play a full season of hockey again.

There are enough guys there to put together a lineup with four strong pivots. I have no idea how it will play out. For the next 2-3 seasons I could see something like:

Pavs
Legwand
Sheahan
Andersson

Those guys are all very good two-way players. 3 of the 4 are good along the boards and in the corners. They are all good or have the potential to be good faceoff guys.

Considering Legwand was consistently a 40+ guy in an offensively strapped team in Nashville he could be a consistent 50+ guy here. He seems to be doing very well with Nyquist and Mule. The top 9 could give us three strong scoring lines.

Z-Pavs-Mantha
Nyquist-Legwand-Mule
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco

 

[Flowah]

Our GM said they were antsy that is a fact no? Is that just a lie?

When McKenzie or these kind of hockey insiders are willing to put their name behind speculation it means where they are hearing it from is reliable, also that the story they were told checks out at least in plausibility.

He said antsy, he also denied rumors of being asked for a trade. Antsy is a far cry from that and bolting to Sweden.

McKenzie didn't put his name behind it. He just reported it like any sports reporter would do. It's an interesting rumor on a day where the trade deadline was winding down and the Legwand trade was basically the last trade we knew all the details about. You put your name behind something when you say something is reliable or something is very plausible or you give *some* indication as to whether or not you believe it.

When all you do is repeat a rumor you heard and immediately afterwards say "That's just pure speculation" you're not putting your own credibility on the line anymore than a TV reporter who cites pure speculation and rumors concerning a developing news story.

Still haven't seen a lot of people around here pretending he stinks overnight which is what was being said there.

Are you sure? Lots of people taking Holland's words at face value when he said that the organization doesn't see him as anything more than a bottom6 guy who has been surpassed by Andersson and Glendening. No offense to those two, but if someone says you're behind them, they are saying you're not a very good hockey player.

 

[bababooeyII]

What maybe one poster, I would like to see the people doing that.

Biggest one was the concern over his leaving for the SHL, which you left out. Must have missed these responses, David Legwand has three points and has been in on five goals in two games.

I still feel Jarnkrok will be successful if he stays and that he is in a better situation now in terms of lacking as much competition in Nashville to be given a bigger chance.

Why does it matter if he leaves for Sweden? The Preds still own his rights, so if he decides to sign in Sweden what difference does that make? Another silly argument against Jarnkrok. I would rather hear people admit the fact that the trade was made from weakness, out of desperation and that the Wings gave up a lot. I don't think it as worth it, others do think it was but time will settle that argument.

 

[BinCookin]

Why does it matter if he leaves for Sweden? The Preds still own his rights, so if he decides to sign in Sweden what difference does that make? Another silly argument against Jarnkrok. I would rather hear people admit the fact that the trade was made from weakness, out of desperation and that the Wings gave up a lot. I don't think it as worth it, others do think it was but time will settle that argument.

Its very possible that moving back to sweden to cash in on 500K as opposed to 100K could be looked at by DRW management as a backwards move. If there is any truth to this, they may see this as making Jarnkrok not viable for the NHL, since he will never fully adapt to the smaller ice surface and thus never play in the NHL.

Legwand is a good player. The Value was fair in this trade.

But I do not like this trade.

This years DRW are severely injured. We are done for the stanley cup honestly. Picking up more players for THIS season, and not NEXT season is dumb.

Legwand may resign here, which would make the trade somewhat more likeable. BUT. Legwand is old (like Z and D). We just gave up a 21 year old, who could be as good as leg wand (maybe) in 3-4 years. Is that worth the wait? If we are really rebuilding everyone around our superstars, then the answer was yes.

I do not like this trade, because we simply could have signed Legwand without this trade. Not to mention, I feel like it could have been done without including Jarnkrok.

But what does it matter. What is done is Done. We like our prospects… ALL of them.. A little too much.

But still. Detroit does not seem like a win now team. It seems like a set ourselves up for next year team. And in that position, you don't acquire a rental.

Legwand is OFFICIALLY a rental.

Its a Bad move, even if we make the playoffs!

 

[BinCookin]

Two goals for the youngster last night: To me he looks awfully like a young Zetterberg.

He looks good.

ME no likey Trade!

 

[Wolverine Wings]

I've never really bit on the Zetterberg comparisons as some around here have. He simply isn't as strong on the puck as Zetterberg was back in the day and isn't near as good on even strength.

I've always thought of him as a borderline 2nd Line center whose defense and special teams ability who won't do the dirty work in the the offensive zone. He won't have much success if his lower body doesn't continue to improve, however.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

McKenzie didn't put his name behind it. He just reported it like any sports reporter would do. It's an interesting rumor on a day where the trade deadline was winding down and the Legwand trade was basically the last trade we knew all the details about. You put your name behind something when you say something is reliable or something is very plausible or you give *some* indication as to whether or not you believe it.

McKenzie repeated it and said he'd been told it. He doesn't do that with just any rumor from any source. Let's not forget that McKenzie has likely THE deepest set of contacts of any media personality. It's highly likely that somebody involved told McKenzie what he repeated. Now, that doesn't mean the rumor was correct, and it looks like it wasn't, but McKenzie repeating it has a lot of significance. He knows full well what happens when you start repeating false rumors on TV.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

And anyone who thinks Legwand is purely a rental isn't thinking of it like the front office. Ken Holland loves his veterans and he loves his center depth. Pair that with the fact that Babcock loves big, gritty players who hustle and take care of their own end. That means those two will practically go to the ends of the Earth to sign this guy.