That was my first thought too. That would mean the majority arent middle class. It's also apparently interesting to compare the number that meet whatever definition of middle class is used and the number that consider themselves middle class. I think the vast majority would feel themselves middle class. Upper class is just a few percent.
News Article: Lebreton
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Tnuoc Alucard
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- Sep 23, 2015
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I thought the “Middle class” and “Those aspiring to join it” was growing?
moneyGenius
moneygenius.ca
Tnuoc Alucard
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Golden_Jet
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- Sep 21, 2005
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Yep NCC works at a snails pace, they expropriated the land about 60 years ago.
Tnuoc Alucard
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The one constant factor during this process, despite who owned or negotiated on behalf of the franchise, has been the NCC…..
Tuna99
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2009
- 16,548
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Andlauer wants to trigger Sens fans to be frustrated with the NCC and put pressure on them with a publicity campaign
Just when the team has been fun for the first time in 8 years theres Sens ownership ready to bring us down with Aréna stuff, Anger might be on Andlauers side this time but honestly, Sens fans deserve a rest from This and can we just have 82 games where we can focus on hockey and not trying to decipher Andlauers 613 hat interview or why Taykor Swift was so good for Toronto or why the NCC sucks. Hockey only, just for 1 season
Just when the team has been fun for the first time in 8 years theres Sens ownership ready to bring us down with Aréna stuff, Anger might be on Andlauers side this time but honestly, Sens fans deserve a rest from This and can we just have 82 games where we can focus on hockey and not trying to decipher Andlauers 613 hat interview or why Taykor Swift was so good for Toronto or why the NCC sucks. Hockey only, just for 1 season
Gil Gunderson
Registered User
Calgary's arena will be completed and they will have already played their home opener in it before we even get an official agreement in place.
Qward
Because! That's why!
BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
Lol maybe that's the problem. I am too, to an extent, but you gotta separate that and acknowledge that Andlauer's done the right things so far and is miles ahead of the previous guy.
mysens
Registered User
- Apr 9, 2013
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Without it getting political and me getting reprimanded, NCC is federal government. A colleague of mine had sold a parcel of land to the NCC three years ago, they have delayed the closing on three separate occasions. Until, the vendor had a connection to Justin Trudeau, within days of JT hearing this, it closed. In fact, it closed three days later. Too much BS and this is why the ownership group will walk away at one point.
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
- 27,806
- 14,753
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
- 51,558
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It isn't up to us, the NCC is Federal.
Did you see who you were responding to?
PlayersLtd
Registered User
- Mar 6, 2019
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I hope they are able to move forward but I said it from Day 1 that the NCC was going to trip over itself on this one and that the obstacles are like a minefield in east Ukraine. There was no reason for optimism going back nearly a decade now
I'm guessing the hang up is that the NCC is putting a valuation on the land based on the master plan. The SENS are valuing it based on bare land. That's a big gap.
The NCC is digging itself into a hole here. Forget the arena for a second, Andlauer should be concerned about them not moving quick enough on everything else and that the Sens, should they build, will end up with an arena in the middle of an empty brownfield weed infested urban acreage. The longer the NCC drags this out with Andlauer the more reason Andlauer has to believe they won't get sh1t done quickly on any other land deals at Lebreton. He will not and should not build alone, he needs guarantees the community development is going to keep up. No guarantees will come.
This is so on script for the NCC and Lebreton. Small reminder, the original RFP was issued 10 years ago. Seems like they are a few months away from botching this and they'll be back at square one and ANOTHER DECADE will have passed and they will be no closer than they were in the 1960's from doing anything with that land.
The only good news in all of this is that I am sure talks are ongoing behind closed doors with Sutcliffe and that back up sites are being kicked around simultaneously and the day they announce that they aren't working with the NCC is the same day they announce they are working with the City.
I hope I'm wrong. I was just at Climate Pledge Arena and the main feature is that it is sunken down and has a low roof line and the main concourse is essentially at street level, ice level is way below. It is so cool and really successful for crowd movement and accessibility. The topography at Lebreton would allow for a similar design.
I'm guessing the hang up is that the NCC is putting a valuation on the land based on the master plan. The SENS are valuing it based on bare land. That's a big gap.
The NCC is digging itself into a hole here. Forget the arena for a second, Andlauer should be concerned about them not moving quick enough on everything else and that the Sens, should they build, will end up with an arena in the middle of an empty brownfield weed infested urban acreage. The longer the NCC drags this out with Andlauer the more reason Andlauer has to believe they won't get sh1t done quickly on any other land deals at Lebreton. He will not and should not build alone, he needs guarantees the community development is going to keep up. No guarantees will come.
This is so on script for the NCC and Lebreton. Small reminder, the original RFP was issued 10 years ago. Seems like they are a few months away from botching this and they'll be back at square one and ANOTHER DECADE will have passed and they will be no closer than they were in the 1960's from doing anything with that land.
The only good news in all of this is that I am sure talks are ongoing behind closed doors with Sutcliffe and that back up sites are being kicked around simultaneously and the day they announce that they aren't working with the NCC is the same day they announce they are working with the City.
I hope I'm wrong. I was just at Climate Pledge Arena and the main feature is that it is sunken down and has a low roof line and the main concourse is essentially at street level, ice level is way below. It is so cool and really successful for crowd movement and accessibility. The topography at Lebreton would allow for a similar design.
Bjornar Moxnes
Fordi fellesskap fungerer
Being miles better than Melnyk isn't a high bar and doesn't make him immune to criticism especially since he's still in a completely different class than the vast majority of people on this site, and thus looks out for his own interests mostly.
Tuna99
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2009
- 16,548
- 8,443
I’m trying to help, just a fan voice. He’s a good bartender but a terrible D.J. What he’s serving I like, his hockey is excellent for the eyeballs. Andlauer brings an atmosphere around the team I find is fuzzy, the arena stuff is a constant nightmare, talking about the 1st round pick all the time, the OHL stuff I just found weird and you need a phoney hat to explain it to us why does this have to be weird it’s just an OHL team going to a good Canadian family shouldn’t need a map and a numbered hat to figure out why, and I found he committed the fat-head cardinal sin he came down from Toronto to tell us how great it is - don’t feel sorry for the city of Ottawa because Ottawa doesn’t need a hand up from Toronto, Toronto needs to stop taking itself so seriously it’s just a big city with nothing else going on, it has nothing to brag about except shits open late. The reason it could shut down for Taylor is because there’s nothing going on that matters, you can just shut it down in the middle of the day and nothing happens. it’s just 4 million people crammed together in small apartments who have better take out options then you, it’s not special. I love what Green and Staois and everyone below those two is doing, I find Andlauer is trying to be someone he’s not. He’s just a kid from NDG who bought a hockey team somehow, that’s enough for me just give it to me straight and Ottawa doesn’t need help from Toronto being something it doesn’t want to be.
What I would like is a franchise that doesn’t seem to living on a cliff edge all the time. check out being a Hab’s fan, theres not a constant drip off storm clouds with that team.There tons of drama around the team but it’s not board room stuff, you never hear about boardroom in Winnipeg or Vancouver, Ottawa the Sens boardroom is always there being played out by the owner. bad boardroom news…I don’t want to hear about it. just Buy private land and just build an arena there illegally the fans will understand Andlauers from Montreal use your mob connections to build it and the traffic cops can’t stop a determined construction team it’ll all over over by next winter
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BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
Maybe not immune to criticism, but maybe I just didn't agree with the criticism being levied in this case. Didn't make a lot of sense and just seemed ranty, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I'm more than willing to let it ride with Andlauer after experiencing the shit show we used to have. Criticism should be incredibly minor at this point and basically nitpicking imo.
You know they're dipshits (the NCC) because they could have remediated the land 20x over by now, after all these years, and built it into the cost of the sale of the land. The buyers could have moved immediately into planning and permits to get construction started on whatever it is they want to build there. Instead, these dipshits have sat on their hands for an eternity and it keeps delaying the development of the land for no good reason.
UglyPuckling
Registered User
- May 14, 2021
- 1,578
- 857
If it happens, then great. But in my mind, there was always a pretty decent chance this wasn’t going to happen, or at least at any time in the near or mid future.
I agree with your idea that Andlauer would be well advised to have parallel discussions and negotiations with the City. Maybe giving the NCC a few months to see if the NCC could come up with something was OK (I think the Senators are past that point with the NCC already though). I don’t think the NCC is capable of doing anything without some pressure being applied. Even with this, they may be still incapable of doing something and moving forward.
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PlayersLtd
Registered User
- Mar 6, 2019
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The federal government has a tax payer funded program to clean up sites exactly like Lebreton (Federal Contaminated Sites Action Plan). It has received nearly $6B over the years. I was involved in one in the the city I live in on a Transport Canada site, high profile heavily contaminated just like Lebreton. After clean up it was sold off for a small fraction of the total decontamination cost of $168M (BC Hydro and the Feds shared the clean up bill).
Regardless of whether they work the decontamination into the cost or not one thing is certain, had they done this in the early 2000's after the first major study came out (1996) the bill would have been a fraction of what it will be today AND they would have recovered all of that by now through various means. Dragging their feet on this is costing them hundreds of millions.
Bureaucracy at it's finest.
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