News Article: Lebreton

[bert]

Bieber is not buying the sens lol.

But in relevant news Alfie was in the building....

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

can you clarify what the sticking point has been. Isn't whoever wins the bid paying for it? Euge and Rudy would have had some internal "how do we finance this thing", but they were paying for it. I can imagine a ticket surcharge for sens games. As far as I recall, all the bidders who took part indicated no public money was included in their plans.

It was already agreed upon that public money was being put into the cleanup of all the toxic land. That alone could end up being one hell of a discount.

 

[GCK]

back to my original point - a sellout at the Sens game generate about $2 million in revenue. people can do their own calculations but it adds up if you can do basic addition and multiplication.

some tickets cost $150, some people buy 6 beers, some people buy 3 hot dogs and nachos and a hat, some spend $40 on 50/50 tickets and some people take the bus and buy a Coca-Cola seat for $25 and don’t buy anything - but it all comes back if the team sells out it generates about $2 million in revenue on average.

why is this so hard for anyone to reason with?

Because you are wrong. Why do you mention 50/50 tickets

 

[Big Muddy]

Bieber is not buying the sens lol.

But in relevant news Alfie was in the building....

I think you can eliminate any majority owner with less than a billion dollars in wealth. Going from memory, Melnyk's wealth was/is about $2 billion, and we was listed as one of the poorest owners in an article that I saw when this subject was being discussed before. I'm just focusing on the basic concept versus (niggly) details as I don't think this topic warrants much research.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Golden_Jet]

ticket $70
Parking - $15
Beer -$15

That’s $100. We are talking revenues not profit.

You buy a hotdog and beer at the game and that’s $25. You park it’s $15. You buy a T-shirt it’s $30. A slice of pizza is $8. 50/50 draw. Advertising. Promotion.

This is honestly grade 2 math you are arguing over here. Get a pen, write down how much it would cost you to buy a ticket, park, buy a beer and a hot dog and give me that number. This is how you calculate revenues. Now multiply that by 18 500 and you be close to $2 million.

concessions are run by a different entity, we don’t get that amount.
They pay a fixed fee.
Then pay players salaries in US dollars.There isn’t parking for 18000 cars lol, it’s like 4500, unless it shrunk again.

Also some of us had a free parking, like me, after 10 years as STH, after 5 years it’s a discounted rate.

Just one example, not simple math as you put it.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Micklebot]

back to my original point - a sellout at the Sens game generate about $2 million in revenue. people can do their own calculations but it adds up if you can do basic addition and multiplication.

some tickets cost $150, some people buy 6 beers, some people buy 3 hot dogs and nachos and a hat, some spend $40 on 50/50 tickets and some people take the bus and buy a Coca-Cola seat for $25 and don’t buy anything - but it all comes back if the team sells out it generates about $2 million in revenue on average.

why is this so hard for anyone to reason with?

Again, your making false assumptions, start with garbage data and you'll inevitably end up with garbage conclusions.

 

[JimmySpaetzle]

I think you can eliminate any majority owner with less than a billion dollars in wealth. Going from memory, Melnyk's wealth was/is about $2 billion, and we was listed as one of the poorest owners in an article that I saw when this subject was being discussed before. I'm just focusing on the basic concept versus (niggly) details as I don't think this topic warrants much research.

I mean in order to be really successful as a team, the owner needs to basically be rich enough to just treat the team like a fun toy. And at a value of $600-700 million, the Sens would’ve been 1/4 of Melnyk’s entire net worth. I mean imagine buying a car that’s worth 1/4 of your entire net worth (yes I know a car is a depreciating asset blah blah blah). It’s no wonder he could barely afford to keep the thing running

 

[Beech]

ticket $70
Parking - $15
Beer -$15

That’s $100. We are talking revenues not profit.

You buy a hotdog and beer at the game and that’s $25. You park it’s $15. You buy a T-shirt it’s $30. A slice of pizza is $8. 50/50 draw. Advertising. Promotion.

This is honestly grade 2 math you are arguing over here. Get a pen, write down how much it would cost you to buy a ticket, park, buy a beer and a hot dog and give me that number. This is how you calculate revenues. Now multiply that by 18 500 and you be close to $2 million.

source: The Financial State of the Ottawa Senators

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

It was already agreed upon that public money was being put into the cleanup of all the toxic land. That alone could end up being one hell of a discount.

for sure. I did note the toxic cleanup in response to someone else here.

my whole point was rather pedantic. The toxic cleanup money was never a "sticking point". anyone who wants to build on that land needs to do the cleanup and that fund is available to anyone - thus, not a sticking point.

and speaking of me being pedantic. I suppose you could call it a discount, but what is happening here is that the city wants to encourage development of course. There was previous use of the land that made the soil contaminated, so for better or worse, the city allows a rebate of some of those costs - I believe up to 50%.

the team would be stupid not to push for as much as they can get from the city - given that everyone seems jacked about having them downtown and for all I know they were pushing behind the scenes in the original bid, but not of that made it to the public as far as I recall, so we can't see there were "sticking points"

 

[NorthCoast]

I mean in order to be really successful as a team, the owner needs to basically be rich enough to just treat the team like a fun toy. And at a value of $600-700 million, the Sens would’ve been 1/4 of Melnyk’s entire net worth. I mean imagine buying a car that’s worth 1/4 of your entire net worth (yes I know a car is a depreciating asset blah blah blah). It’s no wonder he could barely afford to keep the thing running

I don't think that's true.

Look at Vinnik. He has less money than EM had. Dundon just over a billion. Lot's of owners are not loaded and can run successful small market teams.

You just have to be good at business and hockey ops. Look at the financial statement. It basically says that the sens can run profitably somewhere in the middle of the cap if you remove the team debt.

And then you just have to invest smart. Invest in the right players, get playoff return, invest in marketing - see gate return, invest in new stadium - see valuation return.

All of these returns depend on the right investments, not money. If you need more money you can take on partners who also want to get in on the return. We don't need a rich owner, we need a smart owner, who is willing to take on risk AND/OR minority partners.

 

[Tuna99]

Again, your making false assumptions, start with garbage data and you'll inevitably end up with garbage conclusions.

So if the Sens have 18500 fans for a sellout how much revenue do they generate? Show me your elite numbers

According to Shawn Simpson who got the information from a Sens source who works for the team - it’s about $2 million. That’s why the $10 million for 5 games in QC City was the talking point last week

 

[Sweatred]

I don't think that's true.

Look at Vinnik. He has less money than EM had. Dundon just over a billion. Lot's of owners are not loaded and can run successful small market teams.

You just have to be good at business and hockey ops. Look at the financial statement. It basically says that the sens can run profitably somewhere in the middle of the cap if you remove the team debt.

And then you just have to invest smart. Invest in the right players, get playoff return, invest in marketing - see gate return, invest in new stadium - see valuation return.

All of these returns depend on the right investments, not money. If you need more money you can take on partners who also want to get in on the return. We don't need a rich owner, we need a smart owner, who is willing to take on risk AND/OR minority partners.

I think we heard team debt has ballooned into the low $200’s after these last two years and may be approaching $250+ at The end of this year.

I thought Freedman or someone suggested a home Sens game this year was worth $400K and a Leafs game $3-4 mill.

The idea being the debt is absorbed in the sale by one of the parties …

 

[MCNSTY]

I think you can eliminate any majority owner with less than a billion dollars in wealth. Going from memory, Melnyk's wealth was/is about $2 billion, and we was listed as one of the poorest owners in an article that I saw when this subject was being discussed before. I'm just focusing on the basic concept versus (niggly) details as I don't think this topic warrants much research.

Melnyk’s net worth was around $1B - not $2B.

However, the bigger thing is to have an owner (or owners) who have other massive sources of revenues where they aren’t relying on their sports franchise to keep them afloat. Melnyk was no longer in this position once BioVail when down the drain and he became cheap once that company was out of the picture. He no longer had another major source of revenue and could no longer blow money on his sports club.

 

[MCNSTY]

I think you can eliminate any majority owner with less than a billion dollars in wealth. Going from memory, Melnyk's wealth was/is about $2 billion, and we was listed as one of the poorest owners in an article that I saw when this subject was being discussed before. I'm just focusing on the basic concept versus (niggly) details as I don't think this topic warrants much research.

Melnyk’s net worth was around $1B - not $2B.

However, the bigger thing is to have an owner (or owners) who have other massive sources of revenues where they aren’t relying on their sports franchise to keep them afloat. Melnyk was no longer in this position once BioVail went down the drain and he became cheap once that company was out of the picture. He no longer had another major source of revenue and could no longer blow money on his sports club.

 

[Sweatred]

Melnyk’s net worth was around $1B - not $2B.

However, the bigger thing is to have an owner (or owners) who have other massive sources of revenues where they aren’t relying on their sports franchise to keep them afloat. Melnyk was no longer in this position once BioVail went down the drain and he became cheap once that company was out of the picture. He no longer had another major source of revenue and could no longer blow money on his sports club.

Melynk loses (spends) more money on the team then most owners.

One owner has $175 million of revenue and spends $165 on the team pocketing $10.. the other has $110 of revenue and spends $120 losing $10. Who spends more of their money?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Melynk loses (spends) money on the team then most owners.

One owner has $175 million of revenue and spends $165 on the team picketing $10.. the o bet has $110 of revenue and spends $120 losing $10. Who spends more of their money?

C'mon. In your own example he's not spending more on his team than most owners. He's taking more of a loss, sure, if we accept your base numbers as fact (which, for the record, I don't.) But that's not even the premise as you lay it out.

 

[Sweatred]

C'mon. In your own example he's not spending more on his team than most owners. He's taking more of a loss, sure, if we accept your base numbers as fact (which, for the record, I don't.) But that's not even the premise as you lay it out.

Just take a look at annual operating income - that’s all I’m using.

The habs are guilty of pocketing a tonne of cash of sub cap spending the past few years before Covid.

I think a sub cap team with $200 in revenue is “cheaper” than a sub cap team with $110 in revenue. Keep in mind our revenue numbers are inflated with league handouts too.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Just take a look at annual operating income - that’s all I’m using.

The habs are guilty of pocketing a tonne of cash of sub cap spending the past few years before Covid.

I think a sub cap team with $200 in revenue is “cheaper” than a sub cap team with $110 in revenue. Keep in mind our revenue numbers are inflated with league handouts too.

You're using "lose" and "spend" as interchangeable when they're not.

 

[MCNSTY]

Melynk loses (spends) more money on the team then most owners.

One owner has $175 million of revenue and spends $165 on the team pocketing $10.. the other has $110 of revenue and spends $120 losing $10. Who spends more of their money?

“Spending” and “losing” are not interchangeable lol

 

[Sweatred]

You're using "lose" and "spend" as interchangeable when they're not.

spending in the typical definition is just reallocating funds - if a fan base gives an owner $100 million and he gives that to the players the owner is just reallocating fan money.

Geener has been digging more into his own pocket than most owners in the league, yet we call him cheap becuase he can’t reallocate as much fan revenue as other owners.

 

[Masked]

source: The Financial State of the Ottawa Senators
View attachment 528378
View attachment 528379

View attachment 528380

Almost all of those numbers are guesses based upon guesses. I would not pay any heed to them'

assennayo

 

[Golden_Jet]

So if the Sens have 18500 fans for a sellout how much revenue do they generate? Show me your elite numbers

According to Shawn Simpson who got the information from a Sens source who works for the team - it’s about $2 million. That’s why the $10 million for 5 games in QC City was the talking point last week

Jus look at Beech’s financial statement, it’s all right there including, one year showing expansion revenue and one playoff revenue. $12 million a year in interest on debt as well.
Thanks @Beech

 

[Cosmix]

Bieber is not buying the sens lol.

But in relevant news Alfie was in the building....

If we are going to have a figurehead in the ownership group that takes over the team, I hope she is pretty!