News Article: Lebreton...UPDATE - Agreement made with NCC.

[IpsoPostFacto]

I would not consider him racist…. If he was, he would have taken off the air decades ago. Listened to him for years, and never heard a racist statement from him, so it’s puzzling to hear you say that.

Sure he was set in his ways, and stood his ground on some issues.

I too am a big fan of call in shows, but kinda stopped listening to Rob, when they moved him to 6am or whenever his show starts….. I get my talk show fix from podcasts nowadays, as you listen to them anytime, anywhere….. Listened to Rush for many years while travelling the highways of the USA… always entertaining.

I listened to Lowell before many here were born. Right back to the Green Line in the bronze age.

He's not a racist.

He was however, particularly in his later days, a bit random.

During the amalgamation of the City of Ottawa, Lowell was having a fit about the cost of the rationalizing of the computer systems between the various municipalities.

Some old guy phoned up to tell the story about how he was able to help his wife set up her computer for work by, as far as I could tell, installing Adobe Acrobat. He told Lowell that it took him a half hour and the new City of Ottawa should just use that.

For the rest of the show, Lowell would not shut up about the fact he "just talked to a computer expert and the city could just run on Adobe Acrobat and it would only cost a few hundred per workstation"

There was nobody more entertaining, though.

 

[ColinM]

I listened to Lowell before many here were born. Right back to the Green Line in the bronze age.

He's not a racist.

He was however, particularly in his later days, a bit random.

During the amalgamation of the City of Ottawa, Lowell was having a fit about the cost of the rationalizing of the computer systems between the various municipalities.

Some old guy phoned up to tell the story about how he was able to help his wife set up her computer for work by, as far as I could tell, installing Adobe Acrobat. He told Lowell that it took him a half hour and the new City of Ottawa should just use that.

For the rest of the show, Lowell would not shut up about the fact he "just talked to a computer expert and the city could just run on Adobe Acrobat and it would only cost a few hundred per workstation"

There was nobody more entertaining, though.

He also really knew when to cut people off, for better or worse

 

[Stylizer1]

He also really knew when to cut people off, for better or worse

Yeah when he clearly was going to lose an argument.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I understand but you are trying to argue the viability of all electric like they are equal. I have said Ottawa should have went with a third rail system.

How Russian trains deal with winter

Even in the harshest weather conditions, passenger and freight traffic never stops on the railways. How come Russian trains are not afraid of...

www.rbth.com

I'm a rocket surgeon soo....

Seems like you and poster you are debating with might be talking about different things. Based on your picture, you are talking about plowing snow off the tracks while the other poster is saying they don't shovel snow off the wires that deliver the electrical power to the trains (per first 2 sentences of the post).

 

[Cosmix]

\

Russia has about 130,000 km of track and about half of is electrified under wire. They're not "shoveling" snow off the OCS/conductors after every snowfall. The point of my post was to show that there are many cities around the world with electrified railways that operate successfully in cold climates. There are many different kinds of electrified rail systems in those cold climate cities used to carry passengers. Some of it is above grade, some of it below, and some cities have systems that operate both above and below grade. The L in Chicago uses 3rd rail but L is short form for "elevated" (hence, not in a tunnel). That's just one example. There's lot of different implementations and flavours. I worked in the industry for 42 years. It's time to move on.

I have not read all of the posts in this thread but your statement that you have 42 years of experience in the "industry" is intriguing to me.

I have no knowledge or experience in LRT and therefore do not have much to say.

In your view what are the things that went "wrong" in the city of Ottawa design and implementation our LRT?

 

[Stylizer1]

Seems like you and poster you are debating with might be talking about different things. Based on your picture, you are talking about plowing snow off the tracks while the other poster is saying they don't shovel snow off the wires that deliver the electrical power to the trains (per first 2 sentences of the post).

No, it's just one of the many points that distorts the original argument.

 

[Big Muddy]

\

I have not read all of the posts in this thread but your statement that you have 42 years of experience in the "industry" is intriguing to me.

I have no knowledge or experience in LRT and therefore do not have much to say.

In your view what are the things that went "wrong" in the city of Ottawa design and implementation our LRT?

I did not follow the Ottawa LRT that closely through the entire project cycle. I have read a little about it recently. So, bear in mind, I base this on what I've read which can lack detail and necessary context i.e., these are opinions based on a relatively limited amount of info, and hence, must be taken as such.

I did call on the client in the early days just after the owner's engineer had been hired. The client seemed very inexperienced in my mind. They were mesmerized by the "vehicle" side of it. There's not a lot of electrified rail experience in Canada in general. There are systems in Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver (these 3 are LRT), Montreal and Toronto (subway systems and one 25kv electrified system in Montreal) I worked for a firm that had designed all of the 25kV systems in North America (some portions of it at a minimum). Remember that Ottawa's LRT is 1500 volt DC. There was probably a lack of experience in general with the major stakeholders involved: the client (transit authority), the design/builder, owner's engineer, etc.

From what I read, there were a lot of problems with the vehicle and some maintenance issues.

The following is mostly a number of different vehicle problems, but there's a few other things thrown in there. They include:

- Automatic doors and the electronic components involved in doors. That's a design issue in my opinion. If doors aren't shut properly (i.e., people are holding them open), then they should be able to isolate that circuit and reset it to allow doors to close again properly without much delay. This isn't atypical, but usually the door and module in question can be isolated and cleared relatively quickly.

- Power problems like bad inductors - that's a manufacturers defect imho. Electrical contacts that were improperly cleaned. That's a maintenance issue.

- Switch heater problems. Switches are used so the train can switch tracks. Switches are mechanical devices and heaters are used to keep the switches running & operating properly in cold weather. Switch heaters have been around for decades and are used in both electrified and diesel operation. That sounds like a manufacturers/supplier problem.

- Wheel flat problem. That is typically a maintenance issue as maintenance shops have wheel truing machines.

- There might have been other problems with the wheels. Not sure, but I believe I read there was a loose connection of the wheel to the axle.

- Heaters for inside the vehicle. That would appear to be a manufacturer problem.

- Axle hub and bearing problems - That appears to a manufacturer's problem.

- Sink hole problem at Rideau and Sussex during construction I believe. That is usually a civil engineering issue.

Ottawa's vehicles are low floor Alstom Citadis Spirit. The Citiadus is a family of LRT vehicle products. I don't know how different the LRT vehicles were for Ottawa versus the other Citadus family vehicles, but it seems like the vehicles were designed for Ottawa as a new implementation. You have to be brave to a degree to buy and implement a system that has not been implemented (a few times) and been operational elsewhere imho.

Remember these are just opinions based on limited info versus the gospel truth as I stated above. It is also worthwhile to point out that the rail industry consists of a number of different engineering disciplines, so typically each discipline is called upon to provide its expertise for that particular part of the system. I would be remiss not to point that out as well as a limitation on what I can present.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I did not follow the Ottawa LRT that closely through the entire project cycle. I have read a little about it recently. So, bear in mind, I base this on what I've read which can lack detail and necessary context i.e., these are opinions based on a relatively limited amount of info, and hence, must be taken as such.

I did call on the client in the early days just after the owner's engineer had been hired. The client seemed very inexperienced in my mind. They were mesmerized by the "vehicle" side of it. There's not a lot of electrified rail experience in Canada in general. There are systems in Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver (these 3 are LRT), Montreal and Toronto (subway systems and one 25kv electrified system in Montreal) I worked for a firm that had designed all of the 25kV systems in North America (some portions of it at a minimum). Remember that Ottawa's LRT is 1500 volt DC. There was probably a lack of experience in general with the major stakeholders involved: the client (transit authority), the design/builder, owner's engineer, etc.

From what I read, there were a lot of problems with the vehicle and some maintenance issues.

The following is mostly a number of different vehicle problems, but there's a few other things thrown in there. They include:

- Automatic doors and the electronic components involved in doors. That's a design issue in my opinion. If doors aren't shut properly (i.e., people are holding them open), then they should be able to isolate that circuit and reset it to allow doors to close again properly without much delay. This isn't atypical, but usually the door and module in question can be isolated and cleared relatively quickly.

- Power problems like bad inductors - that's a manufacturers defect imho. Electrical contacts that were improperly cleaned. That's a maintenance issue.

- Switch heater problems. Switches are used so the train can switch tracks. Switches are mechanical devices and heaters are used to keep the switches running & operating properly in cold weather. Switch heaters have been around for decades and are used in both electrified and diesel operation. That sounds like a manufacturers/supplier problem.

- Wheel flat problem. That is typically a maintenance issue as maintenance shops have wheel truing machines.

- There might have been other problems with the wheels. Not sure, but I believe I read there was a loose connection of the wheel to the axle.

- Heaters for inside the vehicle. That would appear to be a manufacturer problem.

- Axle hub and bearing problems - That appears to a manufacturer's problem.

- Sink hole problem at Rideau and Sussex during construction I believe. That is usually a civil engineering issue.

Ottawa's vehicles are low floor Alstom Citadis Spirit. The Citiadus is a family of LRT vehicle products. I don't know how different the LRT vehicles were for Ottawa versus the other Citadus family vehicles, but it seems like the vehicles were designed for Ottawa as a new implementation. You have to be brave to a degree to buy and implement a system that has not been implemented (a few times) and been operational elsewhere imho.

Remember these are just opinions based on limited info versus the gospel truth as I stated above. It is also worthwhile to point out that the rail industry consists of a number of different engineering disciplines, so typically each discipline is called upon to provide its expertise for that particular part of the system. I would be remiss not to point that out as well as a limitation on what I can present.

re: this and others

Sink hole problem at Rideau and Sussex during construction I believe. That is usually a civil engineering issue.

Lots of unsettled claims still

 

[Cosmix]

I did not follow the Ottawa LRT that closely through the entire project cycle. I have read a little about it recently. So, bear in mind, I base this on what I've read which can lack detail and necessary context i.e., these are opinions based on a relatively limited amount of info, and hence, must be taken as such.

I did call on the client in the early days just after the owner's engineer had been hired. The client seemed very inexperienced in my mind. They were mesmerized by the "vehicle" side of it. There's not a lot of electrified rail experience in Canada in general. There are systems in Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver (these 3 are LRT), Montreal and Toronto (subway systems and one 25kv electrified system in Montreal) I worked for a firm that had designed all of the 25kV systems in North America (some portions of it at a minimum). Remember that Ottawa's LRT is 1500 volt DC. There was probably a lack of experience in general with the major stakeholders involved: the client (transit authority), the design/builder, owner's engineer, etc.

From what I read, there were a lot of problems with the vehicle and some maintenance issues.

The following is mostly a number of different vehicle problems, but there's a few other things thrown in there. They include:

- Automatic doors and the electronic components involved in doors. That's a design issue in my opinion. If doors aren't shut properly (i.e., people are holding them open), then they should be able to isolate that circuit and reset it to allow doors to close again properly without much delay. This isn't atypical, but usually the door and module in question can be isolated and cleared relatively quickly.

- Power problems like bad inductors - that's a manufacturers defect imho. Electrical contacts that were improperly cleaned. That's a maintenance issue.

- Switch heater problems. Switches are used so the train can switch tracks. Switches are mechanical devices and heaters are used to keep the switches running & operating properly in cold weather. Switch heaters have been around for decades and are used in both electrified and diesel operation. That sounds like a manufacturers/supplier problem.

- Wheel flat problem. That is typically a maintenance issue as maintenance shops have wheel truing machines.

- There might have been other problems with the wheels. Not sure, but I believe I read there was a loose connection of the wheel to the axle.

- Heaters for inside the vehicle. That would appear to be a manufacturer problem.

- Axle hub and bearing problems - That appears to a manufacturer's problem.

- Sink hole problem at Rideau and Sussex during construction I believe. That is usually a civil engineering issue.

Ottawa's vehicles are low floor Alstom Citadis Spirit. The Citiadus is a family of LRT vehicle products. I don't know how different the LRT vehicles were for Ottawa versus the other Citadus family vehicles, but it seems like the vehicles were designed for Ottawa as a new implementation. You have to be brave to a degree to buy and implement a system that has not been implemented (a few times) and been operational elsewhere imho.

Remember these are just opinions based on limited info versus the gospel truth as I stated above. It is also worthwhile to point out that the rail industry consists of a number of different engineering disciplines, so typically each discipline is called upon to provide its expertise for that particular part of the system. I would be remiss not to point that out as well as a limitation on what I can present.

Thanks Big Muddy for the detailed response.

I have participated in several RFPs and assessment of vendors for service contracts. I agree with you that systems that have not been previously built and successfully implemented in other projects are higher risk. I generally prefer proven systems and vendors to reduce the level of risk. Some potential vendors say all the right things, and more, but do not have the knowledge, experience and financial wherewithal to get the job done right and to fix things when they go wrong.

 

[Big Muddy]

Thanks Big Muddy for the detailed response.

I have participated in several RFPs and assessment of vendors for service contracts. I agree with you that systems that have not been previously built and successfully implemented in other projects are higher risk. I generally prefer proven systems and vendors to reduce the level of risk. Some potential vendors say all the right things, and more, but do not have the knowledge, experience and financial wherewithal to get the job done right and to fix things when they go wrong.

Yes, if I were purchasing a system, I would want to be the 3rd or 4th customer (at a minimum) for that system ideally. However, large rail projects are not comparable to let's say mass produced consumer electronics. There's only a handful of projects ongoing on at one time (worldwide even).

One thing I forgot to mention is that projects of this ilk go through a testing phase and process. Besides individual subsystem/system tests, there is also a final acceptance (all systems) conducted at the end of the testing phase. This requires the system to be run in normal operation for a period of time (usually several months). Failures and problems are tracked and analyzed. There is usually various criteria set as to what constitutes final acceptance of the system and a payment is usually made once Final Acceptance has been achieved. That payment is often set at a number that constitutes the vendors profit.

Throughout a project (before and after final acceptance), there is usually a number of milestones and decision gates that must be achieved. The Design/Builder/Supplier cannot proceed to the next phase without approval of the current phase or "decision gate". There are criteria set as to what constitutes a pass or fail. Design/Builder/Suppliers can proceed to the next step if they wish (is often necessary for long lead items), but its done at their own risk i.e., they won't get paid for what has been done if its done before approval of the previous phase/decision gate.

What I've mentioned falls into the domain of the client (the transit authority) to control, as well as the owners engineer who is usually the right arm of the client on the technical side of things. I can't say what happened in the Ottawa LRT project, but suspect there is a story to be told here. Something seems amiss or must have happened you'd think.

By the way, what I described above can be applied to any project or any industry, even a professional sports team. Projects that don't successfully implement these principles and procedures are 1000 times (a systems engineering stat) more likely to fail especially when they are not done correctly in early phases of a project. That's why I have said in the past that timing (& patience) is important when it comes to the Senators rebuild. This idea of swinging for the fences too early in a rebuild carries a high risk of failure.

 

[Beech]

Yes, if I were purchasing a system, I would want to be the 3rd or 4th customer (at a minimum) for that system ideally. However, large rail projects are not comparable to let's say mass produced consumer electronics. There's only a handful ongoing on at one time (worldwide even).

One thing I forgot to mention is that projects of this ilk go through a testing phase and process. Besides individual subsystem/system tests, there is also a final acceptance (all systems) conducted at the end of the testing phase. This requires the system to be run in normal operation for a period of time (usually several months). Failures and problems are tracked and analyzed. There is usually various criteria set as to what constitutes final acceptance of the system and a payment is usually made once Final Acceptance has been achieved. That payment is often set at a number that constitutes the vendors profit.

Throughout a project (before and after final acceptance), there is usually a number of milestones and decision gates that must be achieved. The Design/Builder/Supplier cannot proceed to the next phase without approval of the current phase or "decision gate". There are criteria set as to what constitutes a pass or fail. Design/Builder/Suppliers can proceed to the next step if they wish (is often necessary for long lead items), but its done at their own risk i.e., they won't get paid for what has been done if its done before approval of the previous phase/decision gate.

What I've mentioned falls into the domain of the client (the transit authority) to control, as well as the owners engineer who is usually the right arm of the client on the technical side of things. I can't say what happened in the Ottawa LRT project, but suspect there is a story to be told here. Something seems amiss or must have happened you'd think.

By the way, what I described above can be applied to any project or any industry, even a professional sports team. Projects that don't successfully implement these principles and procedures are 1000 times (a systems engineering stat) more likely to fail especially when they are not done correctly in early phases of a project. That's why I have said in the past that timing (& patience) is important when it comes to the Senators rebuild. This idea of swinging for the fences too early in a rebuild carries a high risk of failure.

have you ever been in a meeting with executives to discuss cost reduction.

Cost Reduction is the ugliest phrase in the engineering world. It assume that as Engineers, we added FAT to a project so that we can take it out later... Idiotic. So when asked to cost reduce.. it means, risk take.

If you have run in the Engineering world. You will notice something obvious.. It is a kitty coral... YOUNG!!!!! No one wants to pay, so Engineers at private companies or consulting firms are young.

Older Engineers are squeezed out. And so 20 somethings with little experience get to work on the next project. And after they learn from all their mistakes... they are gone and a new set arrives.... to make a whole new batch of mistakes...Many are the same mistakes done before, but no one is around to tell them.

Cost reduction, lowest bid, inexperienced people... rinse and repeat. It has been at the heart of issues for decades.

And we will never learn..

As for the owners Engineer... I will send you a list of the 62 consulting engineering firms in Eastern Ontario (mostly Civil).. Feel free to visit and document age... Don't mention Alfie in discussing hockey.. He was their Dad's hero. And Gretzky was their GrandDad's.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Yes, if I were purchasing a system, I would want to be the 3rd or 4th customer (at a minimum) for that system ideally. However, large rail projects are not comparable to let's say mass produced consumer electronics. There's only a handful ongoing on at one time (worldwide even).

One thing I forgot to mention is that projects of this ilk go through a testing phase and process. Besides individual subsystem/system tests, there is also a final acceptance (all systems) conducted at the end of the testing phase. This requires the system to be run in normal operation for a period of time (usually several months). Failures and problems are tracked and analyzed. There is usually various criteria set as to what constitutes final acceptance of the system and a payment is usually made once Final Acceptance has been achieved. That payment is often set at a number that constitutes the vendors profit.

Throughout a project (before and after final acceptance), there is usually a number of milestones and decision gates that must be achieved. The Design/Builder/Supplier cannot proceed to the next phase without approval of the current phase or "decision gate". There are criteria set as to what constitutes a pass or fail. Design/Builder/Suppliers can proceed to the next step if they wish (is often necessary for long lead items), but its done at their own risk i.e., they won't get paid for what has been done if its done before approval of the previous phase/decision gate.

What I've mentioned falls into the domain of the client (the transit authority) to control, as well as the owners engineer who is usually the right arm of the client on the technical side of things. I can't say what happened in the Ottawa LRT project, but suspect there is a story to be told here. Something seems amiss or must have happened you'd think.

By the way, what I described above can be applied to any project or any industry, even a professional sports team. Projects that don't successfully implement these principles and procedures are 1000 times (a systems engineering stat) more likely to fail especially when they are not done correctly in early phases of a project. That's why I have said in the past that timing (& patience) is important when it comes to the Senators rebuild. This idea of swinging for the fences too early in a rebuild carries a high risk of failure.

Great posts.

I’m a computer engineer and have managed dozens of software projects with various team sizes and durations. Always a challenge to get them done and have the final product actually work well.

Engineering project management is a fascinating subject to me, and it’s as much about people and human psychology as it is about technical details. Just getting ten software engineers to cooperate and all work towards the same goal is much more difficult than it should be.

As hard as it is to get a software project done, I have to believe a big system like the LRT is 100x more complicated.

 

[Big Muddy]

have you ever been in a meeting with executives to discuss cost reduction.

Cost Reduction is the ugliest phrase in the engineering world. It assume that as Engineers, we added FAT to a project so that we can take it out later... Idiotic. So when asked to cost reduce.. it means, risk take.

If you have run in the Engineering world. You will notice something obvious.. It is a kitty coral... YOUNG!!!!! No one wants to pay, so Engineers at private companies or consulting firms are young.

Older Engineers are squeezed out. And so 20 somethings with little experience get to work on the next project. And after they learn from all their mistakes... they are gone and a new set arrives.... to make a whole new batch of mistakes...Many are the same mistakes done before, but no one is around to tell them.

Cost reduction, lowest bid, inexperienced people... rinse and repeat. It has been at the heart of issues for decades.

And we will never learn..

As for the owners Engineer... I will send you a list of the 62 consulting engineering firms in Eastern Ontario (mostly Civil).. Feel free to visit and document age... Don't mention Alfie in discussing hockey.. He was their Dad's hero. And Gretzky was their GrandDad's.

re: Cost Reduction

I guess it depends on what area or industry. I don't need a list of civil engineering companies. I worked in a very specialized industry and vertical market. We knew who all the customers were, and what projects they had. There weren't that many clients, or competitors.

In the area that I worked in, it was a niche market, and there was a shortage of qualified people. So, it was hard to find any engineers to hire. We generally had lots of work. The challenge was to find qualified staff if the goal was to grow. In my industry, bidding was expensive, so you didn't just throw mud at a wall and hoped it stuck. Many times we knew we were going to win a project even before the bid was submitted.

Younger people generally didn't think about the industry I worked in. I guess it wasn't thought of as being sexy or whatever, or just not even thought of at all. We provided scholarship programs and apprenticeships and tried all different kinds of things to attract young engineers.

I guess there was always the challenge to assign the right staff with the right experience and qualifications, at the right cost, and try to find the happy medium. But, qualifications were important.

We had to provide staffing plans (quals), rates, and hours, so all of this info was available to the client typically as part of a bid. If there was any government funding involved, they also knew our overhead rate, and profit. It also depended on what kind of contract it was. Design was a different situation versus Design/Build, etc.

If a client was smart, they knew that the low bid was very likely going to be the most problematic. Frequently it was a low bid because the bidder overlooked something (just missed it) that was important.

 

[Big Muddy]

Great posts.

I’m a computer engineer and have managed dozens of software projects with various team sizes and durations. Always a challenge to get them done and have the final product actually work well.

Engineering project management is a fascinating subject to me, and it’s as much about people and human psychology as it is about technical details. Just getting ten software engineers to cooperate and all work towards the same goal is much more difficult than it should be.

As hard as it is to get a software project done, I have to believe a big system like the LRT is 100x more complicated.

I hear you. In the areas I worked in, there was almost always some element of some system that hadn't been built before. And, the projects were frequently large and complex. So, projects only occasionally came in on budget and on schedule. Projects could be 10 years in duration even.

I worked on both sides of the industry, both for systems manufacturers, and in engineer consulting. In engineering consulting, you could work on the owner's side as the owner's engineer (good work if you can get it, and we often did), or on design and build side doing the implementation of whatever it was.

When I worked with systems manufacturing firms, there was definitely a lot of very specialized software involved, so I had considerable exposure to s/w development in that environment. I had my own company for awhile that started out as an idea and grew. I sold it, thought I'd retire, and did for awhile, but then when back into consulting after awhile (& then retired again LOL).

 

[Stylizer1]

In my years as a rocket surgeon I've seen some crazy shit.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

If the sens move to that area, an arena that connects to the Trilium line makes more sense. Assuming the trains aren’t immobilized turds, you could move a lot of people in and out of there, and Preston street is just one station south for drinks and food.

 

[Ice-Tray]

have you ever been in a meeting with executives to discuss cost reduction.

Cost Reduction is the ugliest phrase in the engineering world. It assume that as Engineers, we added FAT to a project so that we can take it out later... Idiotic. So when asked to cost reduce.. it means, risk take.

If you have run in the Engineering world. You will notice something obvious.. It is a kitty coral... YOUNG!!!!! No one wants to pay, so Engineers at private companies or consulting firms are young.

Older Engineers are squeezed out. And so 20 somethings with little experience get to work on the next project. And after they learn from all their mistakes... they are gone and a new set arrives.... to make a whole new batch of mistakes...Many are the same mistakes done before, but no one is around to tell them.

Cost reduction, lowest bid, inexperienced people... rinse and repeat. It has been at the heart of issues for decades.

And we will never learn..

As for the owners Engineer... I will send you a list of the 62 consulting engineering firms in Eastern Ontario (mostly Civil).. Feel free to visit and document age... Don't mention Alfie in discussing hockey.. He was their Dad's hero. And Gretzky was their GrandDad's.

It’s like you just discovered capitalism, perhaps end game at that, and the shareholders as the bottom line.

Take your engineer example and apply it everywhere in the public and private sector. Apply it to education, apply it to health care, and apply it to politics.

Apply it to construction, to real estate, to oil and gas, to every single business that doesn’t want over sight getting in the way.

This. Is. Us. Now. Everywhere.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

MSN

 

[Beech]

It’s like you just discovered capitalism, perhaps end game at that, and the shareholders as the bottom line.

Take your engineer example and apply it everywhere in the public and private sector. Apply it to education, apply it to health care, and apply it to politics.

Apply it to construction, to real estate, to oil and gas, to every single business that doesn’t want over sight getting in the way.

This. Is. Us. Now. Everywhere.

Vimy Bridge is 2 minutes away (by bike).. there was delays.. bad construction. It finally opened about 10 years ago.. The area North East is deteriorating. The concrete is cracking everywhere (the side walks mostly). The canal has a high east bank, but a low west bank.. There is shifting occurring.

My guess, by 2030, goodbye east side of the Bridge.. Hello massive project to re-enforce.

River Side south has no ground.. we are the Canadian shield. The ground drifted away centuries ago.. We have clay everywhere. Unstable. And holds water..so, corrosion.

Sidewalks where added when they expanded Earl Armstrong. Along the full length of the street. All the decorative stone is either being removed, or simply paved over.. It looks like shit along Earl Armstrong sidewalks.. A mere 10 years after build, all the side walks are damaged.... The idiots, poured concrete, right over clay/sand. And the snow removal equipment and heavy trucks just kill everything..

I want see that bridge as the east shore erodes away and it starts tipping....

By the time it is all said and done, Vimy Bridge will cost 2-3 X what it should have!!!!!!

Unreal how bad things have become...

Every project, everything is now done wrong. That is why, I was shaking taking the Covid vaccine.. All I can think about was the idiots who build this neighborhood are from the same flock that developed this vaccine!!!!

let's hope that people in health care and health science are different. Otherwise, I won't have to worry about seeing the Bridge collapse.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Vimy Bridge is 2 minutes away (by bike).. there was delays.. bad construction. It finally opened about 10 years ago.. The area North East is deteriorating. The concrete is cracking everywhere (the side walks mostly). The canal has a high east bank, but a low west bank.. There is shifting occurring.

My guess, by 2030, goodbye east side of the Bridge.. Hello massive project to re-enforce.

River Side south has no ground.. we are the Canadian shield. The ground drifted away centuries ago.. We have clay everywhere. Unstable. And holds water..so, corrosion.

Sidewalks where added when they expanded Earl Armstrong. Along the full length of the street. All the decorative stone is either being removed, or simply paved over.. It looks like shit along Earl Armstrong sidewalks.. A mere 10 years after build, all the side walks are damaged.... The idiots, poured concrete, right over clay/sand. And the snow removal equipment and heavy trucks just kill everything..

I want see that bridge as the east shore erodes away and it starts tipping....

By the time it is all said and done, Vimy Bridge will cost 2-3 X what it should have!!!!!!

Unreal how bad things have become...

Every project, everything is now done wrong. That is why, I was shaking taking the Covid vaccine.. All I can think about was the idiots who build this neighborhood are from the same flock that developed this vaccine!!!!

let's hope that people in health care and health science are different. Otherwise, I won't have to worry about seeing the Bridge collapse.

Don’t think the Ottawa city planners had anything to do with the so called Covid vaccine…. Which I agree was overhyped, and under performed… and the developers were given complete immunity from any claims of side effects from their untested vaccine that was fraudulently presented as the only treatment available, when is wasn’t and the developers actively hid, from the public, the side effects that they knew of.

 

[Stylizer1]

Vimy Bridge is 2 minutes away (by bike).. there was delays.. bad construction. It finally opened about 10 years ago.. The area North East is deteriorating. The concrete is cracking everywhere (the side walks mostly). The canal has a high east bank, but a low west bank.. There is shifting occurring.

My guess, by 2030, goodbye east side of the Bridge.. Hello massive project to re-enforce.

River Side south has no ground.. we are the Canadian shield. The ground drifted away centuries ago.. We have clay everywhere. Unstable. And holds water..so, corrosion.

Sidewalks where added when they expanded Earl Armstrong. Along the full length of the street. All the decorative stone is either being removed, or simply paved over.. It looks like shit along Earl Armstrong sidewalks.. A mere 10 years after build, all the side walks are damaged.... The idiots, poured concrete, right over clay/sand. And the snow removal equipment and heavy trucks just kill everything..

I want see that bridge as the east shore erodes away and it starts tipping....

By the time it is all said and done, Vimy Bridge will cost 2-3 X what it should have!!!!!!

Unreal how bad things have become...

Every project, everything is now done wrong. That is why, I was shaking taking the Covid vaccine.. All I can think about was the idiots who build this neighborhood are from the same flock that developed this vaccine!!!!

let's hope that people in health care and health science are different. Otherwise, I won't have to worry about seeing the Bridge collapse.

how far away is it by Ferrari?

 

[Beech]

how far away is it by Ferrari?

Two life times and being born to a different set of parents.

 

[mysens]

The billionaire owners and partners will never, ever agree to rent or lease land to build a billion dollar arena. Period. It is never their land, and to have the NCC mafia control all aspects of maintaining their grounds in regards to landscaping, snow clearing etc will never work. The new owners are looking elsewhere and are simply entertaining the NCC at the moment to turn them down softly.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Found this on another forum … copied





The major problem and no media company has seem to understood this or come up with it yet.
Ontario and the Canada has a history of buying European designed equipment for use in Canada and it does not work in our climate or road conditions.
History lesson here
Ontario Northland ( Ontario Crown Corporation) purchased 4 sets of trains that were retired from the Swiss , made in 1957, purchased in 1977 once retired from use in Europe.
The cars and locomotives required upgrades and still had issues in winter with freezing doors, poor starting of locomotives, the locomotives were replaced with North American models modified FP7s in 1984 ( retired in 1987) cars were retired in 1992
VIA rail purchased a set of European cars for service
The Renaissance fleet was originally built by Alstom in the mid-1990s for the proposed Nightstar overnight service between the United Kingdom and continental Europe through the Channel Tunnel. Via acquired the entire fleet in 2000 for C$130 million after the Nightstar concept was abandoned. Via entered the cars into service in 2002. Presently, four sets are in service: two on the Ocean, overnight between Montreal and Halifax, and two in the corridor, between Ottawa and Quebec City. Any unused car is in storage or was scrapped in Thunder Bay.
Major retrofits required doors not big enough, doors freezing in the winter, voltage issues etc.
Then comes the LRT and Alstom is the winning bidder to provide equipment.
Ottawa purchased brand new models never tested anywhere else but Ottawa.
1500 DC volt over head lines ( Toronto and the GTA ordered the 750 DC Volt model, Metrolinx placed the Citadis Spirit order mainly because it was concerned that Bombardier might not be able deliver an order of Flexity Freedom vehicles in time to open Line 5 Eglinton, a light rail line under construction in Toronto. If Bombardier failed to deliver, Metrolinx would be liable for heavy penalties of $500,000 per day payable to the consortium building that line. Thus, the Citadis Spirit order acted as insurance in case Bombardier fails to complete the Flexity Freedom order on time. If Bombardier is late, then the 44 vehicles for the Hurontario LRT could completely service Line 5 Eglinton in 2020) But Alstom purchased Bombardier in 2021.
Cannot even share cars if there is a need like a huge sporting event in either city, cannot even share parts as not all parts will be common.
Quebec City also purchased the 750 DC volt models.
So Ottawa has equipment that no one else in Canada is operating or will operate. So all research into repairs will be on the shoulders or from the pockets of the Ottawa taxpayer.
Why would the city of Ottawa accept equipment that no one runs in North America, or in Canada and agree to be the testing city for first year, first model equipment?
Why would the city of Ottawa who had a great running train model and system toss it aside to run an all electric system on the new lines that was untested, unproven and more costly when they could kept the same diesel system running ( diesel does not stop when the electric wire break due to ice load. No one seems to remember the ice storm that almost shutdown the city in the late 90s). City of Ottawa gets snow storms and lack of snow removal and ice removal stops the trains?
City of Ottawa needs to hire an inhouse railroad team much like the TTC in Toronto, their train inspectors, repairmen, track inspectors, and repairman. Get inhouse experts to go over everything and get the system running properly.
Model train guys know what cars, locomotives fit the curves on their model trains, and they know large cars do not stay on the rails when the curves are tight. If model train guys know this why does real engineers not understand this?

 

[JD1]

Good old Jimmy Watson....quiet as a church mouse these days