News Article: Lebreton...UPDATE - Agreement made with NCC.

[Beech]

Probably best to wait awhile before a new building, especially since owner just forked out a billion.

I wouldn’t be rushing it yet.

it no longer makes sense.

Start today and the doors open for the 2027/2028 season... possibly year 5 of this teams good run (the updated FYOUS).. by 2028/2029, you have a brand new building and a team that may be on the decline.

Start the building (process from A to Z) in 2025..Opens in 2029/2030.. by 2031/2032 a new team and a new FYOUS.

 

[Relapsing]

The Sens could always buy a plot of land and defer building until the time makes sense. A potential refurbishment gives them, say, 10 years to see through the current life cycle of the CTC and then to start a new arena development at the end of that period. Construction could take about 3 years so they could get another 13 years out of the CTC and only start paying for a new arena in 10 years.

Things that will happen in those 10 years - new national TV deals in the US + Canada; new regional deal; competitive cycle of 5+ years with current core, including playoff revenue; expansion/relocation. They might be in a position once those pieces are settled to run a profitable operation without selling a single ticket to a game. That gives them a much better idea of where things are at financially before they start on a $1B development.

Where's this plot of land that is adjacent to the transit corridor that the city will let sit undeveloped for another decade?

The only option I could think of is if the NCC continues to f*** the city on the Lebreton development.

We can reference the city's development master plan if you want, but I'm pretty sure the plan is to see most densification development along the corridor start/happen within the next decade.

Seems like bad business to me, to invest money in refurbishment and land only to incur a likely higher development cost down the road.

As for the second paragraph, those would also be positive factors in helping to offset the cost of building a downtown arena asap, no?

 

[Golden_Jet]

it no longer makes sense.

Start today and the doors open for the 2027/2028 season... possibly year 5 of this teams good run (the updated FYOUS).. by 2028/2029, you have a brand new building and a team that may be on the decline.

Start the building (process from A to Z) in 2025..Opens in 2029/2030.. by 2031/2032 a new team and a new FYOUS.

With what money, at current interest rates, it would cost a mint, each year in interest, without paying any debt off on building.

 

[Beech]

With what money, at current interest rates, it would cost a mint, each year in interest, without paying any debt off on building.

I was actually agreeing with you on waiting.

The doors needed to be opened this year to make sense..2023/2024 and you ride the next 5-6 years. Young(ish) team, successful team, new building ... you have EDMONTON.

Otherwise wait until a 2028/2029 or 2029/2030 opening date and start the project the 3-4 years before.

Lebreton stills make sense, but now the Sens need to take their time and start serious work in 2025/2026/2027. And ride out this FYOUS at the CTC.

by 2025-2027 if the team is in peak FYOUS, now let some politician say no to anything and have them face an election!!!!

 

[Golden_Jet]

I was actually agreeing with you on waiting.

The doors needed to be opened this year to make sense..2023/2024 and you ride the next 5-6 years. Young(ish) team, successful team, new building ... you have EDMONTON.

Otherwise wait until a 2028/2029 or 2029/2030 opening date and start the project the 3-4 years before.

Lebreton stills make sense, but now the Sens need to take their time and start serious work in 2025/2026/2027. And ride out this FYOUS at the CTC.

by 2025-2027 if the team is in peak FYOUS, now let some politician say no to anything and have them face an election!!!!

Ahh ok, not sure majority of voters would care,
When Brayden had no money, and wanted city taxes lowered, it was a hard sell locally.

 

[Big Muddy]

For reference, the following table was composed of attendance information from Ottawa Senators home attendance 2022 | Statista, and yearly capacity from Canadian Tire Centre - Wikipedia. Arena capacity % my calculation

Season	Total attendance	Average attendance	Arena Capacity	Arena Capacity %
2005/06	798,453	19,474	19,153	102%
2006/07	794,271	19,372	19,153	101%
2007/08	812,665	19,821	19,153	103%
2008/09	776,947	18,949	19,153	99%
2009/10	749,061	18,269	19,153	95%
2010/11	753,525	18,378	19,153	96%
2011/12	793,612	19,356	19,153	101%
2012/13*	465,801	19,408	19,153	101%
2013/14	742,468	18,108	19,153	95%
2014/15	748,112	18,246	19,153	95%
2015/16	741,472	18,084	19,153	94%
2016/17	686,534	16,744	19,153	87%
2017/18	648,996	15,829	17,373	91%
2018/19	596,684	14,553	18,655	78%
2019/20	466,876	12,618	18,655	68%
2021/22	375,368	10145*	18,655	54%

*Data corrected to reflect Hockey DB avg attendance due to discrepancy between sources

Hockey DB has our attendance numbers last year as:

2022/23

N/A

16757

19,347

87%

Thanks for posting this. I think I made a similar post some time ago.

I would think Andlauer has this data as well and is well aware of previous attendance figures. I really think he is going to focus on building up attendance the first couple of years. Attendance was 18,000 + on average up to and including 2015-16. You'd think he could hit that mark again with a better team. Maybe couple that with even just a tiny price (a few dollars) increase to tickets and that will help Andlauer build a financial base that will help him moving forward. That would seem to me as job #1 for our new owner.

 

[Relapsing]

by 2025-2027 if the team is in peak FYOUS, now let some politician say no to anything and have them face an election!!!!

This is exaggeration, right?

Otherwise this might be one of the most blinders-on fan comments I've seen.

Here's an example from CTV/Nanos on what voters cared about in last years election: Transit tops municipal election issues; taxes, housing also key factors: Nanos poll

 

[Beech]

Ahh ok, not sure majority of voters would care,
When Brayden had no money, and wanted city taxes lowered, it was a hard sell locally.

this is different.

In 2024/2025 this team is at 105 points, about to enter a playoffs that may have them in the ECF or Cup.

Andlauer is charming and not Eugene.. Sutcliff or his successor may be more willing to come up with money.. Ford or his successor, the NCC's new board.

you start the old, we need a new arena..

 

[Beech]

This is exaggeration, right?

Otherwise this might be one of the most blinders-on fan comments I've seen.

Here's an example from CTV/Nanos on what voters cared about in last years election: Transit tops municipal election issues; taxes, housing also key factors: Nanos poll

Do you remember Watson screaming at Eugene Melnyk a few years ago. "You better not cost me the election..."

It was in regards to Lebreton....

by 1985 the BlueJays were contenders... You and 14 million (probably 12 million back then), built the skydome

in 2012, Five million Albertans built the new arena for the Oilers. to open in 2017...McJesus territory.

You don't want to be the politicians that torpedos the team at the height of their success..

Eugene Melnyk's butt was kicked in, becuase the team stank, and he was not liked. Had he been a tad more charming and less antagonizing. And had the team been in FYOUS, what do you think would have been happening in 2015-2020???

Lebreton would have opened last year.

 

[Relapsing]

Thanks for posting this. I think I made a similar post some time ago.

I would think Andlauer has this data as well and is well aware of previous attendance figures. I really think he is going to focus on building up attendance the first couple of years. Attendance was 18,000 + on average up to and including 2015-16. You'd think he could hit that mark again with a better team. Maybe couple that with even just a tiny price (a few dollars) increase to tickets and that will help Andlauer build a financial base that will help him moving forward. That would seem to me as job #1 for our new owner.

Cheers!

Andlauer will have more correlated data than this for sure. Barring any additional market research, they'll have information stuff on season ticket holders, repeat ticket purchasers, per ticket profit margins, etc... that we simply won't ever be privy to.

Increasing per game ticket sales and reaching a broader fan audience are (relatively) easy ways for him to find additional revenue in the short term. Long term, I suspect he's taking a serious look about how to increase the share of lifelong fans in the region.

 

[Relapsing]

Do you remember Watson screaming at Eugene Melnyk a few years ago. "You better not cost me the election..."

It was in regards to Lebreton....

by 1985 the BlueJays were contenders... You and 14 million (probably 12 million back then), built the skydome

in 2012, Five million Albertans built the new arena for the Oilers. to open in 2017...McJesus territory.

You don't want to be the politicians that torpedos the team at the height of their success..

Eugene Melnyk's butt was kicked in, becuase the team stank, and he was not liked. Had he been a tad more charming and less antagonizing. And had the team been in FYOUS, what do you think would have been happening in 2015-2020???

Lebreton would have opened last year.

Was that the 2018 election where Watson won with 71% of the vote? Or maybe the 2014 election where he won with 76% of the vote?

Melnyk by all reports was a horrible person to try and work with. He sunk the Lebreton ship all on his own by building a bad on-ice product and being a cheap bastard who refused to sell the Team.

Ironically, Sutcliffe has been very vocal about wanting the team to come downtown, right as they start what will hopefully be a resurgence of the Team. He's also prioritizing downtown revitalization, and rightly sees a downtown rink as a cornerstone to doing so. Also, I'm also not convinced our window would close in the timeframe discussed, but that's a whole other thing.

As for the Blue Jays, I was all of a year old when they built the Skydome, but I do remember doing a school report on it. The retractable dome was so cool.

 

[Beech]

Was that the 2018 election where Watson won with 71% of the vote? Or maybe the 2014 election where he won with 76% of the vote?

Melnyk by all reports was a horrible person to try and work with. He sunk the Lebreton ship all on his own by building a bad on-ice product and being a cheap bastard who refused to sell the Team.

Ironically, Sutcliffe has been very vocal about wanting the team to come downtown, right as they start what will hopefully be a resurgence of the Team. He's also prioritizing downtown revitalization, and rightly sees a downtown rink as a cornerstone to doing so. Also, I'm also not convinced our window would close in the timeframe discussed, but that's a whole other thing.

As for the Blue Jays, I was all of a year old when they built the Skydome, but I do remember doing a school report on it. The retractable dome was so cool.

2 million people were at the Raptors parade.
Let the Sens win a cup and 1 million will be at the parade here.

Cure cancer and you will be lucky to have 2 people at your parade.

Sports is huge, the biggest TV rating each year in the USA is for football games and other sporting events tend to do real well.

think how many politicians were one time sports stars!!! Having Lebron James endorse you, is way better than having Barrack Obama..

Politicians have to be careful, never piss off sports fans. So, never injure their team, or appear to injure.

Yup Watson won big.. Melnyk backed off. Melnyk was smart enough to not attack Watson, when he, Melnyk, was in a very weak position.

In 2026, if Andlauer has charmed his way into Ottawa life. If he has taken enough pictures at CHEO. If his team is first in the Atlantic, maybe Lebreton gets accelerated and he is handed a good deal..

Sutcliff backs off on "an alternative location". Trudeau and the NCC say here is another hectar or two and the same 300 M for cleanup.. And maybe Ford wonders if 100-200 M and photo-ops in Eastern Ontario gets him 1-5 extra seats.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Probably best to wait awhile before a new building, especially since owner just forked out a billion.

I wouldn’t be rushing it yet.

No, Andlauer did not “fork out “ a billion, he is the majority owner (51%?) and probably heavily financed…..
Sure, he is going to wait to start the process of relocating…. But it will happen in less than a decade.

 

[Golden_Jet]

No, Andlauer did not “fork out “ a billion, he is the majority owner (51%?) and probably heavily financed…..
Sure, he is going to wait to start the process of relocating…. But it will happen in less than a decade.

Nothing to date confirms 51%, it’s likely higher, just speculation at 51%
Agree on the financed part,

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Nothing to date confirms 51%, it’s likely higher, just speculation at 51%
Agree on the financed part,

Yeah, I know. That’d why I added the question mark….and there nothing to confirm that it’s any higher than 51%, just speculation on your part.

But it does not matter he did not make a withdrawal of 1 Billion and dropped it off to the Sisters… as you kinda inferred.

Same thing with building a new arena, it will be financed and doable.


He will most likely squeeze as much life out of the CTC, and relocate somewhere central and assessable to the majority of the marketplace like Ottawa south, Orleans and Gatineau…. It just make the most sense in the long run.


Andlauer has at least 51%, the Sisters have 10%…. That leaves 39% to divide among the rest of the group and Andlauer if he has more than 51%.

Here is what we know about the new Senators ownership

Senators Sports and Entertainment announced it has entered into an agreement with a group run by Michael Andlauer to purchase 90 per cent of the Senators. The new group includes several Ottawa residents.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

 

[thinkwild]

The NCC is hoping an arena will be built in the flats. They have allocated space for it and called for bids. The city would love to see the arena built there. Densifying the public transpo line, maybe helping people get used to taking transit to games now like i do for Redblacks games. Only time im on a bus now. Its so convenient. Fans would love a team downtown just for ambience and partying. The city would love a new neighbourhood there, hopefully lively.

But for whoever owns the Sens, it must be hard not to think, well i dont really need to move there. Im fine for the rest of my life likely out in Kanata which is still growing. But if y'all really want me downtown, i may even chip in a bit to help with the arena.

 

[Sun God Nika]

what started the hurdman rumours?

Looking at map that also looks like a perfect spot. You got a transit hub and all the buses there lots of space for an arena, parking lots, and other businesses too

10mins from downtown, east end, south keys.
20-25 minutes from Kanata, Orleans, Findlay Creek, Gatineau

edit ...

NVM. Looks like its NCC land. Do not want the team to start another project with them from step 0. Likely pushes an arena to 10-15 years from where it is now at 6-10 years.

Could a $300-million national aquatics centre spur development on the Hurdman Station lands?

Peter Lawrence has pulled together a team of supporters for the National Aquatics Complex and has been having talking with the NCC.

ottawacitizen.com

 

[JD1]

Hurdman checks all the boxes transit wise but it's still buttf***nowhere as far as fan experience goes. I suppose you could build a few chain restaurants around the place but it's not the same as getting off work, hitting the pub and then walking to the game.

 

[Micklebot]

Hurdman checks all the boxes transit wise but it's still buttf***nowhere as far as fan experience goes. I suppose you could build a few chain restaurants around the place but it's not the same as getting off work, hitting the pub and then walking to the game.

I mean, it's walking distance to Elgin st, a long walk, but walkable. Certainly not ideal though. I'd put about on par with the old Lynx Rapidz fat cats Titans stadium

 

[BankStreetParade]

Where's this plot of land that is adjacent to the transit corridor that the city will let sit undeveloped for another decade?

The only option I could think of is if the NCC continues to f*** the city on the Lebreton development.

We can reference the city's development master plan if you want, but I'm pretty sure the plan is to see most densification development along the corridor start/happen within the next decade.

Seems like bad business to me, to invest money in refurbishment and land only to incur a likely higher development cost down the road.

As for the second paragraph, those would also be positive factors in helping to offset the cost of building a downtown arena asap, no?

If the Sens buy a plot of land, what mechanisms does the city have to force development under a specific timeline?

 

[Relapsing]

If the Sens buy a plot of land, what mechanisms does the city have to force development under a specific timeline?

Fair point - I wasn't very clear with that statement. If I could re-phrase and clarify....

If Andlauer went down the path of purchasing land and not developing it for a decade plus, the City is unlikely to offer up the Bayview location or any other land it owns, the Fed won't sell their downtown real estate (The City would be pissed if he demolished and did nothing, and do we think he'd become a commercial landlord?), and the NCC will take Lebreton off the table.

Doesn't leave a lot of options.

The City is going to be at the table at these discussions, and I think the scheme of buying land and waiting for years is about the best way to alienate everyone in this process.

 

[JD1]

I mean, it's walking distance to Elgin st, a long walk, but walkable. Certainly not ideal though. I'd put about on par with the old Lynx Rapidz fat cats Titans stadium

No one is going to hit Elgin Street for a few pops and then walk to Hurdman. Google maps says it's a 40 minute walk from Laurier at Elgin to Hurdman station with an arena complex probably 5 to 10 minutes beyond that.

Back in the days of the civic centre, I used to get off work downtown and walk to the civic centre up Bank Street, hitting pubs along the way. Google says that's a 34 minute walk but it was more like walk for ten, stop for a pint, walk ten more, stop for a pint until you got there. That I can see and I used to see others doing it. But a straight 40+ minute walk with a few pints in you...no way

 

[Micklebot]

No one is going to hit Elgin Street for a few pops and then walk to Hurdman. Google maps says it's a 40 minute walk from Laurier at Elgin to Hurdman station with an arena complex probably 5 to 10 minutes beyond that.

Back in the days of the civic centre, I used to get off work downtown and walk to the civic centre up Bank Street, hitting pubs along the way. Google says that's a 34 minute walk but it was more like walk for ten, stop for a pint, walk ten more, stop for a pint until you got there. That I can see and I used to see others doing it. But a straight 40+ minute walk with a few pints in you...no way

The point was more the general proximity, you can hop on the o-train *assuming it's running, for a stop or two and be in the market in no time at all. Middle of nowhere to me suggests the kind of commute where you might as well just head home after spending 20 mins on transit just to get you to the downtown core.

Anyways, I agree that it's not ideal by any stretch.

 

[Beech]

Is peace between OSEG and Andlauer not a possibility?

Can you imagine a huge arena at Lansdowne.. It would be perfect.

A few years later, you add a Casino and you have the largest entertainment/sports district in Canada.

So 10 years of law suits with Landsdown Live and after that build and ride the waive.

Safe to assume egos of both groups are larger than the area of Landsdown and the CTC combined.. or maybe larger than Canada as a whole?

 

[Relapsing]

Is peace between OSEG and Andlauer not a possibility?

Can you imagine a huge arena at Lansdowne.. It would be perfect.

There's around 2 weeks of overlap between the CFL Season and the NHL Season. So, probably not an ideal situation from that perspective alone.

More importantly, the requirements are also completely different and make this idea seemingly impossible. CFL Fields are around 100ft longer and 100ft wider than an NHL rink. Multi-use arenas servicing Basketball and Hockey teams work because the Basketball Court is significantly smaller than an NHL rink. How do you practically make this kind of facility work to allow for relatively quick changes in surface for the overlap period?

A few years later, you add a Casino and you have the largest entertainment/sports district in Canada.

Imagine thinking the NIMBYst neighborhood in Ottawa wouldn't shit a brick if someone tried to build a Casino at Landsdowne.

Honestly one of the wildest, pie in the sky ideas I've seen on here.