News Article: Lebreton project

[Silencio]

Great reminder post, this info has been posted again and again and some don't understand or simply choose to ignore, a few can blame the fans and market all they want but if they fail to understand this absolute universal business rule there's really not much point in debating anything further imo.

This is absolutely true. What has also been posted again and again, and has also been ignored/glossed over, is that when the Senators did provide an entertaining product (peak Erik Karlsson putting up a playoff performance for the ages, the 4 goal Pageau game, all those comebacks and OT wins) the fans still didn't show up. The value was there, but the customers weren't. Of course nobody has any obligation to support a business if they choose not to, but said business also has no obligation to keep financing a product that customers aren't buying. Melynk didn't help matters with his veiled threats of relocation and clumsy McDonalds analogies (not to mention his godawful timing) but I can't honestly say he was completely in the wrong about this.

 

[topshelf15]

This is absolutely true. What has also been posted again and again, and has also been ignored/glossed over, is that when the Senators did provide an entertaining product (peak Erik Karlsson putting up a playoff performance for the ages, the 4 goal Pageau game, all those comebacks and OT wins) the fans still didn't show up. The value was there, but the customers weren't. Of course nobody has any obligation to support a business if they choose not to, but said business also has no obligation to keep financing a product that customers aren't buying. Melynk didn't help matters with his veiled threats of relocation and clumsy McDonalds analogies (not to mention his godawful timing) but I can't honestly say he was completely in the wrong about this.

The trust was already fractured,by one EM ....Nobody in the hockey world saw that run coming including most fans

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Watson was reelected, I would expect that this should help maintain the status quo for the new arena given he is also sits on the NCC. I wonder if Euge was hoping he would be ousted?

Observer status ..... AKA no vote.

Both Mayors (Ottawa/Gatineau) are non-voting observers.

They only obtained this status beginning April 28th 2016.

 

[coladin]

They only have themselves to blame for the mess they're in.

ok

 

[coladin]

At the end of the day, fans are consumers, and NHL hockey is an entertainment business. Part of that “entertainment” for fans is talking about games, trades, controversies, etc at work, with friends and on message boards, but to think that any fan should feel any sort of financial obligation to support a pro sports franchise is ridiculous.

When fans are no longer being entertained, or going to games doesn’t bring them any happiness, or they don't think the entertainment value is worth the price, they won’t buy tickets. It’s that simple, and that's how it should be.

The whole "we're Canadian and Canadians need to support hockey" angle that you're coming from completely misses the point. The NHL and Ottawa Senators are not hockey. They’ve taken hockey and turned it into a billion dollar business, but people shouldn’t be compelled to pad the pockets of millionaires and billionaires in the name of "hockey".

There’s plenty of ways to be a great hockey fan (Go to a junior game! Join a pickup league! Watch your kids play on the outdoor rink!) that don’t include spending $150 to increase the value of Eugene Melnyk’s personal investment.

Yeah, the 67s have really picked up all those angry non-Sens fans. Not.

Why are you here then? Clearly it doesn't bring you happiness , and yet you post all hours of the day here. I guess, between the movie forums that you are on lol, your days must be full. And that is the BS that I don't fall for. When things do not go Militant Sens Fans way, the game that they are passionate about suddenly becomes a product. And fans now are consumers. See, I just don't fall for that crap. It is all intellectual dishonesty to fit in with their mantra.

The NHL is a league that has the best hockey in the world played by the best players. The passion for this sport in Canada is , usually , second to none. People are consumed by it. It affects their moods when they win or lose. People are obsessive about it.

You find me a product that a consumer goes crazy for like that. Movies? Restaurants? Do you have a Bradley Cooper jersey? Do you have a Beckta jersey?

 

[Upgrayedd]

There was 2000 in one game. And it was a lot more than that. they had 20,500 just in December for Alfie. We have had 20,500 for playoff games.

I looked back into it and while you are correct, that this particular game was about 1900 sold ticket short of a sellout, other games were above capacity, I was less focused on a single game and more concerned with the total package, here is my breakdown using wiki numbers which was really the only source I could find:

Arena "Sellout": 18,652

Home Games attendance:
1. 18,702
2. 18,629
3. 19,209
4. 16,744
5. 18,679
6. 19,082
7. 18,006
8. 18, 614
9. 18,615
10. 18,111

Total: 184,391

Total of all games if considered a"sellout": 186,520

If the numbers are accurate and my math is correct, over the 10 home playoff dates a total of 2129 technically available tickets went unsold, or in other words 98.8% of 2016-2017 Senators playoff tickets were sold, I agree it should be at 100% but I think the "nobody showed up" bit being touted mostly by those outside this board needs to stop.

 

[topshelf15]

I looked back into it and while you are correct, that this particular game was about 1900 sold ticket short of a sellout, other games were above capacity, I was less focused on a single game and more concerned with the total package, here is my breakdown using wiki numbers which was really the only source I could find:

Arena "Sellout": 18,652

Home Games attendance:
1. 18,702
2. 18,629
3. 19,209
4. 16,744
5. 18,679
6. 19,082
7. 18,006
8. 18, 614
9. 18,615
10. 18,111

Total: 184,391

Total of all games if considered a"sellout": 186,520

If the numbers are accurate and my math is correct, over the 10 home playoff dates a total of 2129 technically available tickets went unsold, or in other words 98.8% of 2016-2017 Senators playoff tickets were sold, I agree it should be at 100% but I think the "nobody showed up" bit being touted mostly by those outside this board needs to stop.

Yep in a oversized arena ,those numbers are sellouts in say WPG and they dont have the TV deal we have,and also dont seem to have the issues of spending

 

[Upgrayedd]

Im seeing two sides, 1 that has rightly or wrongly identified the owner as the issue and is attempting to boycott the product for change, and another side who rightly or wrongly believes that the market and fans are to blame, I'm not sure of the intended plan for this second group to change anything other than to try and shame the fans into going more?

 

[GrantLemons]

Yeah, the 67s have really picked up all those angry non-Sens fans. Not.

Why are you here then? Clearly it doesn't bring you happiness , and yet you post all hours of the day here. I guess, between the movie forums that you are on lol, your days must be full. And that is the BS that I don't fall for. When things do not go Militant Sens Fans way, the game that they are passionate about suddenly becomes a product. And fans now are consumers. See, I just don't fall for that crap. It is all intellectual dishonesty to fit in with their mantra.

The NHL is a league that has the best hockey in the world played by the best players. The passion for this sport in Canada is , usually , second to none. People are consumed by it. It affects their moods when they win or lose. People are obsessive about it.

You find me a product that a consumer goes crazy for like that. Movies? Restaurants? Do you have a Bradley Cooper jersey? Do you have a Beckta jersey?

I'm not quite sure what your point was here, but fans are always consumers, and it is always a business. The difference is when things are good, we don't need to discuss it, because fans (consumers) are more than willing to pay for the product (Ottawa Senators) due to the entertainment it gives them (amongst other reasons).

Right now fans don't want to go to games, and that's a problem. It's up to the Ottawa Senators, a multi-million dollar professional sports franchise with tons of resources at it's disposal, to understand this market and figure out how to get fans wanting to attend games again.

I mean you said it yourself, 20,500 came out to see Alfie in December, yet only 15k will come out to games at the moment? So the fans are there and willing to go.

The fans are there, it's up to the organization to figure out how to get them out consistently. So far they've done a horrendous job of doing that, see: thinking anyone gives a flying f*** about lower parking by $5.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Yeah, the 67s have really picked up all those angry non-Sens fans. Not.

Why are you here then? Clearly it doesn't bring you happiness , and yet you post all hours of the day here. I guess, between the movie forums that you are on lol, your days must be full. And that is the BS that I don't fall for. When things do not go Militant Sens Fans way, the game that they are passionate about suddenly becomes a product. And fans now are consumers. See, I just don't fall for that crap. It is all intellectual dishonesty to fit in with their mantra.

The NHL is a league that has the best hockey in the world played by the best players. The passion for this sport in Canada is , usually , second to none. People are consumed by it. It affects their moods when they win or lose. People are obsessive about it.

You find me a product that a consumer goes crazy for like that. Movies? Restaurants? Do you have a Bradley Cooper jersey? Do you have a Beckta jersey?

I’m here because I still do find a lot of entertainment in it. I enjoy talking Sens, even the parts that frustrate me. I’m a die-hard fan, just like you, that’s why I’m on the board. And I have been to a live game this year, already.

But I’m not talking about myself. I’m talking about the non-die-hard fans, the regular ones. They’re the majority (in every city, not just Ottawa), and they’re the ones who aren’t going to spend money when the team is bad, or they don’t think the entertainment value is there, and they shouldn’t. It’s the team’s responsibility to win them over, and keep them coming back.

This quote from John McDonough, CEO of the Blackhawks, sums it up nicely.

“I think the one thing I would say: We’re not entitled to any of this,” McDonough said. “The mindset around here is very humble. We’re not entitled to one more fan coming into this arena, we’re not entitled to one more viewer, one more listener, one more win. We’re not entitled to any of that. We’re not going to get caught napping. We’re not caught up in any of this. I think we recognize that it is a very cyclical business. Things can change on the dime if you’re not on it each and every day.”

That’s the attitude of a winning organization. Melnyk is the opposite.

And yes, there are plenty of people who care more about Game of Thrones or Star Wars than they do the NHL, even in Canada.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I’m here because I still do find a lot of entertainment in it. I enjoy talking Sens, even the parts that frustrate me. I’m a die-hard fan, just like you, that’s why I’m on the board. And I have been to a live game this year, already.

But I’m not talking about myself. I’m talking about the non-die-hard fans, the regular ones. They’re the majority (in every city, not just Ottawa), and they’re the ones who aren’t going to spend money when the team is bad, or they don’t think the entertainment value is there, and they shouldn’t. It’s the team’s responsibility to win them over, and keep them coming back.

This quote from John McDonough, CEO of the Blackhawks, sums it up nicely.



That’s the attitude of a winning organization. Melnyk is the opposite.

And yes, there are plenty of people who care more about Game of Thrones or Star Wars than they do the NHL, even in Canada.

How any poster on here could argue with the quote is absolutely laughable!

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

ok

Just glad I could contribute to the debate.

 

[coladin]

I looked back into it and while you are correct, that this particular game was about 1900 sold ticket short of a sellout, other games were above capacity, I was less focused on a single game and more concerned with the total package, here is my breakdown using wiki numbers which was really the only source I could find:

Arena "Sellout": 18,652

Home Games attendance:
1. 18,702
2. 18,629
3. 19,209
4. 16,744
5. 18,679
6. 19,082
7. 18,006
8. 18, 614
9. 18,615
10. 18,111

Total: 184,391

Total of all games if considered a"sellout": 186,520

If the numbers are accurate and my math is correct, over the 10 home playoff dates a total of 2129 technically available tickets went unsold, or in other words 98.8% of 2016-2017 Senators playoff tickets were sold, I agree it should be at 100% but I think the "nobody showed up" bit being touted mostly by those outside this board needs to stop.

Capacity is all over the place, but 87.4% capacity for the season, 16,744 equates to 19, 153 capacity.

 

[CTC]

Observer status ..... AKA no vote.

Both Mayors (Ottawa/Gatineau) are non-voting observers.

They only obtained this status beginning April 28th 2016.

Went by memory, I imagine that even with observer status and being in on the details they can influence positively or negatively where they have interests.

 

[coladin]

I’m here because I still do find a lot of entertainment in it. I enjoy talking Sens, even the parts that frustrate me. I’m a die-hard fan, just like you, that’s why I’m on the board. And I have been to a live game this year, already.

But I’m not talking about myself. I’m talking about the non-die-hard fans, the regular ones. They’re the majority (in every city, not just Ottawa), and they’re the ones who aren’t going to spend money when the team is bad, or they don’t think the entertainment value is there, and they shouldn’t. It’s the team’s responsibility to win them over, and keep them coming back.

This quote from John McDonough, CEO of the Blackhawks, sums it up nicely.



That’s the attitude of a winning organization. Melnyk is the opposite.

And yes, there are plenty of people who care more about Game of Thrones or Star Wars than they do the NHL, even in Canada.

I get what you are saying. Diehards are a certain way. But as a diehard, it is not a product and I am not a consumer. I could never equate following this team to going to the movies, or restaurants, or any other entertainment "product". Those who do, are simply being intellectually dishonest, especially on this site. So, if you are saying that the Senators are like every other product, then yes, I can agree with that.

The regular fans are the majority, but so-called diehards are not going for a variety of reasons. We all know them. If that doesn't change, this franchise will continue to devolve into Arizona, minus the lovely palm trees and armadillos

 

[Upgrayedd]

Capacity is all over the place, but 87.4% capacity for the season, 16,744 equates to 19, 153 capacity.

My memory from that season was that at roughly 18,500 a sellout was announced.

 

[BonkTastic]

My memory from that season was that at roughly 18,500 a sellout was announced.

The "official sellout" number has jumped around every few years ever since they moved out of the Civic Center.

Official Capacity, Official Sellout... All of those terms are subjective. I remember when "official capacity" was 19,153, but then against the Leafs on any given Saturday Night there's 22k in the building and AGCO are busting down doors looking for the person responsible for the building's liquor license, lol.

Then you had the tuesday nighters against Columbus, and 17,300 is also a "sellout".

That's almost a 5k swing in values, both "sellouts". It's hard to trust any of those numbers.

 

[coladin]

My memory from that season was that at roughly 18,500 a sellout was announced.

I don't even know what it is this year lol, maybe that is the 18, 672? But going by the official NHL figures, and in the Citizen article, it is 19, 153. The first two Bruins games I was at, clearly not sold out, but nothing horrific like the Ranger game. It wasn't the first time, and, honestly, did not bother me much as I can see a lot of fans had a wait and see approach. But after you win a round, well, as we all know, that became quite the story.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

This is absolutely true. What has also been posted again and again, and has also been ignored/glossed over, is that when the Senators did provide an entertaining product (peak Erik Karlsson putting up a playoff performance for the ages, the 4 goal Pageau game, all those comebacks and OT wins) the fans still didn't show up.

The fans did show up. There were some seats available when a weeknight playoff game that started at 7 (there is a reason why weeknight games start at 7:30 in Ottawa...) but how in the world does "not a sellout" equal "the fans don't show up"?! Why do we go from 0 to 100 like that?

And for that 7:00 PM weeknight game, the arena was jam packed by halfway into the first. Again, there is a reason why our weeknight games don't start at 7 like everywhere else.

Attendance started dropping in 2013, after Alfie bailed. Up until then, there never was an attendance problem.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yeah, the 67s have really picked up all those angry non-Sens fans. Not.

Why are you here then? Clearly it doesn't bring you happiness , and yet you post all hours of the day here. I guess, between the movie forums that you are on lol, your days must be full. And that is the BS that I don't fall for. When things do not go Militant Sens Fans way, the game that they are passionate about suddenly becomes a product. And fans now are consumers. See, I just don't fall for that crap. It is all intellectual dishonesty to fit in with their mantra.

The NHL is a league that has the best hockey in the world played by the best players. The passion for this sport in Canada is , usually , second to none. People are consumed by it. It affects their moods when they win or lose. People are obsessive about it.

You find me a product that a consumer goes crazy for like that. Movies? Restaurants? Do you have a Bradley Cooper jersey? Do you have a Beckta jersey?

I'm wondering the same thing. Do you enjoy defending the organization in every single thread ad nauseam?

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

The "official sellout" number has jumped around every few years ever since they moved out of the Civic Center.

Official Capacity, Official Sellout... All of those terms are subjective. I remember when "official capacity" was 19,153, but then against the Leafs on any given Saturday Night there's 22k in the building and AGCO are busting down doors looking for the person responsible for the building's liquor license, lol.

Then you had the tuesday nighters against Columbus, and 17,300 is also a "sellout".

That's almost a 5k swing in values, both "sellouts". It's hard to trust any of those numbers.

I’ve never been in a suite so I am wondering - does each person in a suite contribute to the attendance number?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

but nothing horrific like the Ranger game.

I wasn't at the game but the crowd shots on TV certainly didn't make it look like there were a lot of empty seats.

Do we have official numbers or pictures? People have been hanging their hat on that specific game since it got media attention (never mind HF shutting down any talk about the Jets not selling out their WCF).

 

[BonkTastic]

I’ve never been in a suite so I am wondering - does each person in a suite contribute to the attendance number?

 

[Tuna99]

I'm getting text alerts from the Habs saying they have discount tickets and buy a ticket get a free beer - tickets are hard to sell all over the NHL. If Montreal is selling discount seats with promotions, it is happening everywhre.

 

[GCK]

Yes.