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Post-Game Talk: Leafs win 5-1

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Niagara Bill said:
All the tools except the ability to insert himself into being a positive force regularly. Usually every fourth game. Some say that is lack of confidence, or character or will....or all of them. It is not physical talent. Marner can impose himself on 9 out of 10 games. It is Engvals head that makes him so frustrating.
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Not that it really matters what players do once they leave our team but IMO he’s the biggest risk to have something “click” in his head the second he leaves and turn into a 30/30 threat. God forbid he goes to Boston and he picks up some Bergeron via osmosis or maybe even Buffalo to play with the other giraffes.
 
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BertCorbeau said:
Yep ... and he's on pace for similar offense as last year too.

He definitely leaves you wanting more but he's a pretty solid third liner for what he brings. 15 goals, 30 points, with secondary PP time and PK time. It would be nice if he were a little more physical with that frame.
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Hopefully Dubas can bring in a guy or 2 with snarl and some touch to beef up our third line. If you have to push Engval to the 4th line he becomes a VERY good responsible fourth liner that can compete with almost any 4th line in the league.
 
ULF_55 said:
Nice to see a defender throw a hit when the opportunity arises.

Is there any defenseman on the Leafs besides Sandin who actually likes to hit?
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Holl likes to hit. Same with Lilly. They don't lay out guys in open ice like Sandin will the odd time but they are pretty physical
 
Engvall has been pretty good this year... He'd have quite a few more points if his linemates could finish, perhaps they need to try him with someone who can shoot. Knies might make a good linemate, and an upgrade C.

Pierre Engvall's xG60+/- and CF60+/- RAPMs are both up into the top 15 F's (w/ 500+ EV mins of TOI) league wide. That's not saying he is a top 15 F league wide, but if you look at the list of comparable players, its very hard to suggest he doesn't have more value than most assign to him. He certainly provides value for his contract.

Only 4 Leafs regulars have a higher EV G/60 (Nylander, Matthews, Jarnkrok and Tavares). His assist totals are low, but that is because most of his linemates are alarmingly poor shooters. Only one 5v5 line he has been on has a Sh% above 6%. With Jarnkrok and Holmberg.

Courtesy @Stephen_Burtch


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Fogelhund said:
Engvall has been pretty good this year... He'd have quite a few more points if his linemates could finish, perhaps they need to try him with someone who can shoot. Knies might make a good linemate, and an upgrade C.

Pierre Engvall's xG60+/- and CF60+/- RAPMs are both up into the top 15 F's (w/ 500+ EV mins of TOI) league wide. That's not saying he is a top 15 F league wide, but if you look at the list of comparable players, its very hard to suggest he doesn't have more value than most assign to him. He certainly provides value for his contract.

Only 4 Leafs regulars have a higher EV G/60 (Nylander, Matthews, Jarnkrok and Tavares). His assist totals are low, but that is because most of his linemates are alarmingly poor shooters. Only one 5v5 line he has been on has a Sh% above 6%. With Jarnkrok and Holmberg.

Courtesy @Stephen_Burtch


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Does he play with Kerfoot?
 
rojac said:
So, I took a look at Boston and Toronto’s loses and how many have been to teams currently not in a playoff position.

BOSTON
Regulation: 3/7
OT/SO: 3/5
Total: 6/12 (50%)

TORONTO
Regulation: 5/12
OT/SO: 5/8
Total: 10/20 (50%)

Not sure if it means anything or not.
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Toronto could have easy have 4-5 more wins or 10 more points by beating up the bottom tier teams.

That is what so was so frustrating and intriguing at the same time. The team can be so good against the best but seems to falter against lower teams.
 
ULF_55 said:
Nice to see a defender throw a hit when the opportunity arises.

Is there any defenseman on the Leafs besides Sandin who actually likes to hit?
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Liljegren doesn't take BS from opposition either. He plays body pretty well

Fogelhund said:
Engvall has been pretty good this year... He'd have quite a few more points if his linemates could finish, perhaps they need to try him with someone who can shoot. Knies might make a good linemate, and an upgrade C.

Pierre Engvall's xG60+/- and CF60+/- RAPMs are both up into the top 15 F's (w/ 500+ EV mins of TOI) league wide. That's not saying he is a top 15 F league wide, but if you look at the list of comparable players, its very hard to suggest he doesn't have more value than most assign to him. He certainly provides value for his contract.

Only 4 Leafs regulars have a higher EV G/60 (Nylander, Matthews, Jarnkrok and Tavares). His assist totals are low, but that is because most of his linemates are alarmingly poor shooters. Only one 5v5 line he has been on has a Sh% above 6%. With Jarnkrok and Holmberg.

Courtesy @Stephen_Burtch


View attachment 643848View attachment 643849View attachment 643851
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He is a pending UFA and I think he sucks. He won't have any value until he re-signs at a reasonable cap hit and term ;)
 
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The thing with Engvall I've noticed this year is his wheels. A few times now I've seen him just accelerate past the opposing player. Even last night on the goal, he turned off the boards and got huge separation in just a few strides.
 
Gabriel426 said:
IS it me or are some of you are making Engvall into the second coming of Tage Thompson, lol.
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Wouldn't that be nice?

Nah... he's just a pretty effective guy, particularly for what we pay him. I do wonder... what if we ever tried him on the second line more? For the times he's played with Tavares or Matthews as the C this year, and Marner/Nylander as the other winger, we have 19 shots for, to 7 against. It's fairly limited in samples, but it seems he works with those guys.
 
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Gabriel426 said:
IS it me or are some of you are making Engvall into the second coming of Tage Thompson, lol.
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I’ve been over Engvall for a while now.

I like his tools but I have no patience for someone with inconsistent effort, particularly for someone on a line that may lack skill but brings a high hustle and energy level.

I don’t expect someone to have their best game every game, but Engvall doesn’t bring it nearly enough often enough to justify his pay and blocking options on the Marlies or other teams bottom 6 players who are more consistent.
 
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Fogelhund said:
Wouldn't that be nice?

Nah... he's just a pretty effective guy, particularly for what we pay him. I do wonder... what if we ever tried him on the second line more? For the times he's played with Tavares or Matthews as the C this year, and Marner/Nylander as the other winger, we have 19 shots for, to 7 against. It's fairly limited in samples, but it seems he works with those guys.
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The thing with Engvall is his physical tools are so good he drives play and creates opportunities all on his own, the problem is he doesn't have the hockey IQ to use his teammates effectively.

So in order to get the most out of him you need to use him with bottom 6 players or he'll end up killing plays your top guys are creating.

It's similar to former leafs like Mikheyev or Kapanen, or a couple guys fans want Crouse or wanted (Foegle). Stick them on the 3rd line and they'll score some goals and dictate play - put them with skill players and they'll make the line worse. There's nothing wrong with that as long as you know that's what your getting.
 
VanW27 said:
The thing with Engvall is his physical tools are so good he drives play and creates opportunities all on his own, the problem is he doesn't have the hockey IQ to use his teammates effectively.

So in order to get the most out of him you need to use him with bottom 6 players or he'll end up killing plays your top guys are creating.

It's similar to former leafs like Mikheyev or Kapanen, or a couple guys fans want Crouse or wanted (Foegle). Stick them on the 3rd line and they'll score some goals and dictate play - put them with skill players and they'll make the line worse. There's nothing wrong with that as long as you know that's what your getting.
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Yet... the opposite appears to actually be true. If you look at Nylander specifically... The Nylander Engvall + either Tavares/Matthews combo creates more chances per 60 or whatever time measure you want, than without Engvall. Now it's a very limited amount of minutes, but he's not killing the play, he's actually making it better.

It probably deserves more of a chance IMO.
 
A few stray thoughts about the game:

Marner is underrated, even by most Leafs fans. He's so quick and agile. I don't ever remember a Maple Leaf who could play like him.

Kuemper actually played pretty good for Washington, and deserved better. Toronto's forwards made him look bad.

The team is playing a cohesive game recently, aside from the Ottawa stinker. The forwards seem like they all know where their linemates are at all times.

The only consistantly good D partner for Rielly is Brodie.
 
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ULF_55 said:
He can go to Vancouver and breakout.
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I thought all our cast offs go to Edmonton? :sarcasm:
At this point I can't see anyone wanting to go to Vancouver.
I'm not sure what people expect from Engvall but if he trashed a slight reduction of even re signs for the same amount, I would not be unhappy. I think he does fine, nothing good, nothing bad. His skating is great and now the game seems to have slowed down for him. He'll he could score 20 this year
 
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