Pre-Game Talk: Leafs vs Lightning. Game 5

[zeke]

I'm really concerned at the lack of goal production from the top four forwards on this team.

Matthews has a meager two goals in 4 playoff games after coming off 60 goals in 73 regular season games. Where's some of that offensive firepower in this series? He has two goals, one was a freebie empty netter thanks to a Vasi gaffe and the other was 5 on 3. He's been non-existent at 5 on 5, particularly in games 3 and 4 has been completely invisible other than 35 seconds in period 3 of game 3. It's NOT good enough.

Marner has 2 goals in 4 games, better than what he usually brings in the playoffs. Still not good enough, need more from him 5 on 5.

Nylander has 2 goals, that didn't come until the game was out of reach in game 2. Watching him just stop dead in his tracks as a Tampa Bay Lightning player goes for the loose puck in the corner in the offensive zone, intentionally avoiding going after the puck because it would mean some physical contact tells me he doesn't give a flying f*ck about the playoffs, a championship or about anything other than himself. Selfish, lazy, coaster, soft and purposeless. I don't give a shit that he had 2 goals, his effort has been what others always complain about. That play summed up his entire series to me.

Tavares? Do I even need to repeat myself? No drive, no foot speed, no second gear, no effort of any kind whatsoever is being shown by him. The first spark of life I saw from him was a pass to Nylander on his 5 on 5 goal, but it was too little, too late. 11 million dollars, captain of the Leafs, yet plays with zero passion, zero drive, zero cares, if he doesn't care, why the f**k should I? Watching him let Sergachev just pound his face like hamburger meat and show no signs of caring reminds me JUST like Nylander, soft, uncaring, unchanging, unwavering, no second gear, just coasting bullshit. 1 secondary assist in game 1 on the 5 on 3 powerplay goal and 1 primary assist in game 4. Zero goals, 2 points, minus player. Pathetic.

Holl? In game 3, when the Leafs were dominating and humming along perfectly for 30 minutes, up 3 to 0. What does he do? Hey, lets give Tampa Bay life and pinch when we're up 3 to 0, get out of position, watch them go up the ice on an add man rush, have to take a dumb penalty because of a dumb play, guess what happens? Tampa scores on the ensuing powerplay, has life, juices up and pushes the pedal to me metal for the final 30 minutes, Leafs barely win by the skin of their teeth.

What does Holl do in game 4? Gives the puck away by passing it on the boards to.... no one. Leafs player skating away to go change, brainless giveaway and guess what? 1 to zero thanks to his boneheaded, brainless giveaway. Sets the tone, game is over at that point. How the f**k he gets games over Lilijgren is beyond me. If he plays in game 5 over him or Sandin, I'm not even gonna bother watching. If Keefe doesn't care, why the f**k should I?

Hey, at least Kampf and our secondary guys have been okay? Is that all I have to be positive about? Secondary scoring looks more of a threat to score goals at 5 on 5 than our top 4 do?

My faith in this series is pretty much non-existent right now. Sure the Leafs will show up in game 5, but it may not matter because the sleeping giant has been woken up and they want another Stanley Cup.

Leafs don't have the offensive firepower from their top 4, goaltending has been shaky, .889% and 3.50+ GAA in 4 games isn't gonna win a championship let alone a series.

I change my initial prediction of Leafs in six games to Tampa Bay in 6 games. Not seen enough to change my mind. In fact, I saw enough in game 4 to change my mind in favor of Tampa Bay. Not good enough.

 

[Rude Dog]

Thank god they didn't blow game 3. Been waiting 12 months to re-write the script. Just get it done.

 

[SprDaVE]

I get it, but shit happens. Tampa lost the same way in game one. Teams rebound and come back. I know the leafs have a history of doing that which makes it worse. I would have loved for them to match Tampa’s energy. But like I’ve said all morning. Keefe has to shoulder 90% of the blame. He did not have the team prepared and ready to go and that was evident in his decision to start the game with the personnel he did.

Keefe can only do so much. He can't control how his star players play. It's his fault the Matthews line has been getting destroyed by the Point line? I think we've lost the narrative of what a coach does.

This market would rather keep the players off the hook or put the complete blame on Justin Holl than to really focus on the real problem.

 

[stickty111]

It's not that they lost, it's how they lost while in control of the series. If they lost by a goal or in OT or Vasi standing on his head... sure ok whatever. This Leafs core is 1-8 when leading a series (since Matthews is on the team). That 1 win came last playoffs against the Habs to go 3-1. And they came out looking like complete pee-wees in a pivotal game.

Carlo wants the fans to be satisfied with the series being tied 2-2 but glares off the way they played. It's frustrating.

Carlo sounds like those fans making excuses for the team and just being satisfied.

Keefe can only do so much. He can't control how his star players play. It's his fault the Matthews line has been getting destroyed by the Point line? I think we've lost the narrative of what a coach does.

This market would rather keep the players off the hook or put the complete blame on Justin Holl than to really focus on the real problem.

Keefe has done some terrible things but even he seems fed up with the team.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I personally chose to believe in the team and not get involved in negative angles. Some people love to explore the negatives and constantly bring them to light. It’s a matter of preference. No one can tell you how to experience your fandom.

I’m quite enjoying this playoffs and whether they win or lose I think I’ll be adequately satisfied (Especially if they go to 7). This is a hard task. Tampa is a very good team, anyone who was expecting the leafs to steam roll them is a bit delusional.

I can without doubt say I don’t feel nearly as uneasy as I did in the Montreal series.

You'll be adequately satisfied whether they win or lose? I think that's the difference between yourself and the fans you are criticizing.

 

[francis246]

Keefe can only do so much. He can't control how his star players play. It's his fault the Matthews line has been getting destroyed by the Point line? I think we've lost the narrative of what a coach does.

This market would rather keep the players off the hook or put the complete blame on Justin Holl than to really focus on the real problem.

It’s hard for anyone to be motivated when you’re already down 2-0 or 3-0 before getting a quality shift.

I do agree the stars do have to be better, but at the same time the last two coaches have not helped to put our stars in good positions. With home advantage keefe doesn’t get the Matthews line away from the Point line. It was the same thing against Danault. I don’t understand it, if you have last change use it to your advantage. Babcock just flat out refused to put our stars out there in key moments. It’s the playoffs you need to be double shifting these guys and letting them go all out. Keefe basically had the mindset that losing this game isn’t a big deal and you can tell from his presser.

He is a big part of the core not coming prepared

 

[CelticDruid]

The hatred is unreal from some fans, I know we all have our petty differences but the rage from some of you is way over the top.

There was only a handful of players without a minus beside their names and one scored two goals.

Numerous Leaf players failed to show up,and that starts from the top down.
This was a team wide failure and I'm sure they are embarrassed as they should be.

I'm more concerned about the coaching because it seems as if Keefe has lost the plot.

The Leafs will win the next game and then all the negativity will evaporate till the next loss.

 

[francis246]

You'll be adequately satisfied whether they win or lose? I think that's the difference between yourself and the fans you are criticizing.

If they give a hard effort and we lose to the reigning champs I’m not gonna stop watching the leafs. Last year versus MTL was a completely different story. It’s apples to oranges for me, they squandered an opportunity against a team they were 10000x better than.

Anyone expecting Tampa to just roll over and hand the leafs this series is fooling themselves. It was set to be a fight from the get go.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

It’s hard for anyone to be motivated when you’re already down 2-0 or 3-0 before getting a quality shift.

I do agree the stars do have to be better, but at the same time the last two coaches have not helped to put our stars in good positions. With home advantage keefe doesn’t get the Matthews line away from the Point line. It was the same thing against Danault. I don’t understand it, if you have last change use it to your advantage. Babcock just flat out refused to put our stars out there in key moments. It’s the playoffs you need to be double shifting these guys and letting them go all out. Keefe basically had the mindset that losing this game isn’t a big deal and you can tell from his presser.

He is a big part of the core not coming prepared

Sad watching a roster capable of winning not meet potential because of having a coach who shouldn't be coaching a team of this caliber.

The people who think like this are the bad ones yet were the ones who actually praise the most about the teams capability

 

[SprDaVE]

It’s hard for anyone to be motivated when you’re already down 2-0 or 3-0 before getting a quality shift.

I do agree the stars do have to be better, but at the same time the last two coaches have not helped to put our stars in good positions. With home advantage keefe doesn’t get the Matthews line away from the Point line. It was the same thing against Danault. I don’t understand it, if you have last change use it to your advantage. Babcock just flat out refused to put our stars out there in key moments. It’s the playoffs you need to be double shifting these guys and letting them go all out. Keefe basically had the mindset that losing this game isn’t a big deal and you can tell from his presser.

He is a big part of the core not coming prepared

Matthews and Marner should not be players that you scare away from a match up like that. They should be the ones carrying the play, they are franchise level players. They haven't been just contained, they've been dominated 5 on 5. The coach has done what he can to give them favorable match ups but he can't on the road so it's up to the players to elevate their play.

It's easier to blame the coach than the players. I think the one thing Keefe hasn't done right is probably cutting his bench shorter and giving too many minutes to Lyubuskin but that's not exactly a thing you can blame him for, the players have sucked 5 on 5 over the last 2 games... heck even on the PP it's been pretty lack luster. Our best line has been the Kampf one and that isn't because Keefe overplays them... it's because they've played well.

 

[All Mod Cons]

If they give a hard effort and we lose to the reigning champs I’m not gonna stop watching the leafs. Last year versus MTL was a completely different story. It’s apples to oranges for me, they squandered an opportunity against a team they were 10000x better than.

Anyone expecting Tampa to just roll over and hand the leafs this series is fooling themselves. It was set to be a fight from the get go.

Again I think that's the difference between yourself and the fans you criticize. If you're just looking for a team that tries, you'll never understand the fans that want to win.

The fans that really, really want to win will watch the team next year as well. Same way they've been doing for all their adulthood.

 

[francis246]

Matthews and Marner should not be players that you scare away from a match up like that. They should be the ones carrying the play, they are franchise level players. They haven't been just contained, they've been dominated 5 on 5. The coach has done what he can to give them favorable match ups but he can't on the road so it's up to the players to elevate their play.

It's easier to blame the coach than the players.

It’s not about scaring away it’s about making adjustments. It’s about understanding if something is not working, take control in a situation where you can actively change it. The best of players get shut down. But if you as a coach have the power to change the match up to free up your star players, f***ing do it. Who cares what the narrative turns out to be. Winning games is more important than the narrative of scaring away from a certain line.

Had keefe made that adjustment last year instead of worrying about what people would think if he matched up the Matthews line against the Suzuki line instead of the Danault line maybe we win the series.

Again I think that's the difference between yourself and the fans you criticize. If you're just looking for a team that tries, you'll never understand the fans that want to win.

The fans that really, really want to win will watch the team next year as well. Same way they've been doing for all their adulthood.

I want the leafs to win just as bad. But I know how to differ my criticism of the team based on the situation. This series is nothing like the Montreal series is what I’m saying. The criticism last year was warranted and just. I don’t think the same level of criticism is warranted yet this year. We’ll see after game 5’s effort.

 

[Madap]

Definitely too bad we lost game 4 in that fashion, but seriously, did anyone really expect to win that?

Everyone knew this series was going 7 from the start, and after we took game 3 you knew Tampa was going to take game 4. They wouldn’t lose twice in a row at home.

Wait until we see how we respond next game before thinking the world is over. I expect a better effort, and as long as we don’t let in a few weak goals within the first 5 minutes then we’ll be fine. It’s very difficult playing from behind, particularly when the refs suck.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Game 5 outcome will depend on which version of Campbell will attend

 

[Rob Brown]

Any news today? I assume they came home last night and are skating here today?

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Definitely too bad we lost game 4 in that fashion, but seriously, did anyone really expect to win that?

I thought it was 50/50 prior to puck drop.
Those percentages changed quickly once i realized which compete level we brought.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Definitely too bad we lost game 4 in that fashion, but seriously, did anyone really expect to win that?

Everyone knew this series was going 7 from the start, and after we took game 3 you knew Tampa was going to take game 4. They wouldn’t lose twice in a row at home.

Wait until we see how we respond next game before thinking the world is over. I expect a better effort, and as long as we don’t let in a few weak goals within the first 5 minutes then we’ll be fine. It’s very difficult playing from behind, particularly when the refs suck.

I don't think the world is over BUT it was alarming to me how the Leafs capitulated. After that game, I am having a tough time seeing the Leafs winning this series. Again, Matthews and Marner have not showed up either. Total non-factors in both games in Tampa.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Again I think that's the difference between yourself and the fans you criticize. If you're just looking for a team that tries, you'll never understand the fans that want to win.

The fans that really, really want to win will watch the team next year as well. Same way they've been doing for all their adulthood.

The fans that really really want to win and the fans that don't have the exact same level of impact on the odds of us winning: zero.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Reporter needs to ask Keefe:

With how these 2 teams stack up, safe to say whoever wins the 5v5 battle moving forward takes the series. Is it safe to assume Marner will be taken off pk, so you know , he can win the f***ing game.

Tried to stay professional but lost it at the end

 

[stocker]

Blows my mind, no one has pointed out, that our entire gameplan, has been aborted.

They have a big defence, and in game one and two and the first period of game three, we swarmed that D.

It was incredible to see, then suddenly, out of nowthere, suddenly, our new strategy was to dump the puck in and withdraw, retreat and see what might develop.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing. But that is what is happening and what happened.

We went from dominating them, to not even playing.

If we come out with this strategy in period one of game five, that is it, the television goes off.

And no one, can justify, wtf, this winning strategy suddenly was abandoned.

Smells really fishy to me. Smells like WWE....type fish.

Someone got a call, and we were told to withdraw, we were embarassing the defending Stanley Cup Champions, but suddenly, Keefe, decides to withdraw a winning engagement.

Me being a trader, I don't buy that it was Keefe. Guy is smart, and Matthews expression, demeanor and body language speaks volumes to me. He smells a whole factory of fish.

I have never seen anything like this, in all my years of watching hockey.

Once the Lightning D gets a chance to roll, their team comes in as a big wave.

But we never let that wave develop initially. We also did this in the regular season regularly.

Suddenly we are playing unrecognizable hockey.

And the players have gone from enthusiastic to "get me the f*** out of here".

I agree 100% with you.They have to dress Clifford & Simmons.Why did they bench them ? I know Clifford was suspended for game 2 . Your up 2-0 and you change lineup. Why ?

 

[TMLeafer]

People really thought this wasn't going at least 6?

Yeah last night was ugly but it's still 2-2 and Tampa looks beatable. Whether the Leafs take the opportunity is a different story.

 

[inthe6ix]

we're 1-9 when leading in a series

this team lacks killer instinct

 

[Rob Brown]

People really thought this wasn't going at least 6?

Yeah last night was ugly but it's still 2-2 and Tampa looks beatable. Whether the Leafs take the opportunity is a different story.

Personally I guessed Leafs in 6. A Leafs win last night still could have resulted in a 6 or 7 game series, it would have just given the team more opportunities to close it out. I think most people assumed it'd be 6 or 7 games in the end.

 

[Twine Tickler]

We need to bounce back game 5. I really think we are going to see both teams at their best TMW. I think the back and forth blowouts that we've seen in this series ends. It's going to be an absolute dogfight.

I really hope we come out on top, because I just cannot see us winning this series if we go down 3-2. I honestly don't even like our chances in 7 TBH. If we win this series, I think we will have to win these next 2. Not sure I'd be betting against Vasy and the bolts in a game 7.

We need to want it more than them. We need to be hungry on pucks, and we need to get the first goal. Time to step up

 

[Madap]

I thought it was 50/50 prior to puck drop.
Those percentages changed quickly once i realized which compete level we brought.

That game was pretty much a must win for Tampa. It wasn’t for us.

Of course, you’d hope really elite teams have that killer instinct and take that game 4 as well, but I definitely had a feeling we were losing that game anyway. We’ll bounce back.