Pre-Game Talk: Leafs vs Lightning. Game 5

[Tarmore]

Carlo said it best on first up this morning. When will Leafs fans ever be satisfied? The answer is never. We loath in the negative and don’t focus on the positive.

I used to think it was dumb to blame the fans. But the reality is, this market is not for the faint of heart. The more years go by the more I understand why winning here is nearly impossible.

There is your problem right there.

He is a bad radio personality. Way too low on the Leafs after a loss or even on a player that had a poor game in a win.

 

[IPS]

Anyone else think Matthews should be with Nylander and Tavares with Marner?

Sounds like a fantastic plan if you want to ruin Marner's offense for this series and make him play defense for 2 people.

 

[Racer88]

Why do people keep thinking the complaints are due to this one series?

This is an accumulation of failures since 2017. They haven't learned a single thing from all their losses, they're literally repeating the 2019 series GAME FOR GAME. People rightfully don't like their chances because every-time the leafs have been put in this situation they blow it. It's up to the players to change the narrative, but it has been rightfully earned

I think the reasoning is to give him easier matchups so we can get some sort of value out of his 11 million.
I don’t necessarily agree that he should be on the 4th line but maybe push him down to the 3rd

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It’s not about scaring away it’s about making adjustments. It’s about understanding if something is not working, take control in a situation where you can actively change it. The best of players get shut down. But if you as a coach have the power to change the match up to free up your star players, f***ing do it. Who cares what the narrative turns out to be. Winning games is more important than the narrative of scaring away from a certain line.

Had keefe made that adjustment last year instead of worrying about what people would think if he matched up the Matthews line against the Suzuki line instead of the Danault line maybe we win the series.



I want the leafs to win just as bad. But I know how to differ my criticism of the team based on the situation. This series is nothing like the Montreal series is what I’m saying. The criticism last year was warranted and just. I don’t think the same level of criticism is warranted yet this year. We’ll see after game 5’s effort.

I think we are past the point where the coach needs to bail out the players. I think those adjustments come in when you are struggling to generate chances, or it looks like the other team is in a rhythm that we need to get them out of it. I don't think Tampa has looked any more in rhythm than we have. We have had more moments where we have dominated them. We start getting into problems when we flub chances - Matthews has hit posts or missed golden opportunities to score which he usually did not in the regular season - or are not being disciplined. We are not even really making too many stupid mistakes as much as just being lazy.

I am looking at that one goal that Holl is getting blamed for. Holl and Giordano broke 5 cycles on that play. Broke them clean. Didn't even give Tampa a chance to set up. It was the 6th straight cycle when the Leafs couldn't even get it past the red line that Tampa was finally able to set up and it cost us a goal. Our wingers have been struggling to get the job done on the cycle. They lose races, battles, and try to cheat. Engvall and Mikheyev had numerous chances and they gave the puck right back to Tampa, and Kase tried cheating on the goal against and Hedman took advantage.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I don't blame everything on Tavares, and I haven't called for him to be on the 4th line.... But how can you be surprised?

He's been objectively bad through the whole series. Like, bad bad. Manny Malhotra would give us the same faceoff success with 1 eye at his current age for league min.

He's our captain, our 2nd line C that is supposed to give us a huge matchup advantage. He gets caved in every shift. No fight, no battle.

So I think that's why people are a little mad. Oh ya and the guy he replaced (who makes half as much) was the exact opposite kinda guy in the playoffs.

Yep. I hate that it has now become faux pas to actually expect anything from anyone.

I'm only mid thirties as well.

 

[Madap]

Or not, because until they prove otherwise, they are that team

Toronto is a record setting team who has twice beaten the reigning champs and many people’s pick for the cup, once worse than they’ve beaten us.

We’ve shown we’re not that team. I’m not going to guarantee anything, but to suggest that we’re some mediocre team who can’t hang with Tampa is far from the truth.

 

[Legion34]

Sounds like a fantastic plan if you want to ruin Marner's offense for this series and make him play defense for 2 people.

Marner has a long history of success with Tavares.

It gets him away from point and cirelli who are eating them alive.

 

[leafsfan5]

Think we start Bunting - Matthews - Marner to see if it's working. If we get more of the same this is how I'd switch it up:

Kerfoot - Matthews - Nylander
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Kampf - Envgall
Kase - Blackwell - Simmonds/Clifford/Spezza

Marner is the best player right now, I don't doubt he'd be able to get JT going

 

[Mopar]

I don't blame everything on Tavares, and I haven't called for him to be on the 4th line.... But how can you be surprised?

He's been objectively bad through the whole series. Like, bad bad. Manny Malhotra would give us the same faceoff success with 1 eye at his current age for league min.

He's our captain, our 2nd line C that is supposed to give us a huge matchup advantage. He gets caved in every shift. No fight, no battle.

So I think that's why people are a little mad. Oh ya and the guy he replaced (who makes half as much) was the exact opposite kinda guy in the playoffs.

I don't disagree with any of that. But he's not seeing the 4th line.

The Tavares / Nylander combo doesn't work. Hasn't for 82 games. Running them together game after game doesn't exactly help either player excel and it's those two getting most of the heat on here right now.

 

[IPS]

Marner has a long history of success with Tavares.

It gets him away from point and cirelli who are eating them alive.

His long history of success with Tavares doesn't mean jack shit in the playoffs. Tavares is the easiest player on the ice for Tampa's D to defend.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Think we start Bunting - Matthews - Marner to see if it's working. If we get more of the same this is how I'd switch it up:

Kerfoot - Matthews - Nylander
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Kampf - Envgall
Kase - Blackwell - Simmonds/Clifford/Spezza

Marner is the best player right now, I don't doubt he'd be able to get JT going

Counter:

Mikheyev - Matthews - Nylander
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Blackwell - Kampf - Engvall
Spezza - Kerfoot - Clifford

In my opinion, Blackwell has been bad as a C in this series. I think sending Kerfoot down to that line means it may actually produce some offence. I would have Spezza take the draws.

I think we need Mik up top because we need to stretch Tampa's D, and we need a better transition defender on that line.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Reunite Clifford, Blackwell, Simmonds. Tell them to play a hard, clean, physical, net front game and don't separate them again these playoffs.

I know the stupid penalty/suspension by Clifford a few seconds in altered the game two lineup but it shouldn't alter the overall gameplan they had coming in. This team plays 20 pounds heavier when that line is rolling.

They bring the crowd to their feet, they bring energy to the arena and their teammates. Vital at home.

The other lines have to play with speed and commitment. TB can't handle the forwards speed so they must exploit this and generate penalties (if the game is on the level). Swarm and attack.

 

[The Blueprint]

I don't disagree with any of that. But he's not seeing the 4th line.

The Tavares / Nylander combo doesn't work. Hasn't for 82 games. Running them together game after game doesn't exactly help either player excel and it's those two getting most of the heat on here right now.

100%. Keefe left those 2 together way too long without it working. Nylander has to move down cause Tavares makes too much. I get it

 

[Le Magnifique]

anyone else depressed after last nights game?
I think Tampa will take Tuesday and we'll be in a must win by Thursday - Setting the stage for Game 7 winner take all on Friday, where we lose.

Incoming " We pushed the cup champs to game 7 - we should be happy with our progress"

 

[Mopar]

His long history of success with Tavares doesn't mean jack shit in the playoffs. Tavares is the easiest player on the ice for Tampa's D to defend.

So, keep running Matthews / Marner who have been completely shut down as the series has progressed, and Tavares / Nylander who have no chemistry and haven't worked for 82 games this season and 4 games so far this playoffs?

 

[Le Magnifique]

anyone else depressed after last nights game?
I think Tampa will take Tuesday and we'll be in a must win by Thursday - Setting the stage for Game 7 winner take all on Saturday, where we lose.

Incoming " We pushed the cup champs to game 7 - we should be happy with our progress" - Signed, every single god damn year.

 

[Legion34]

His long history of success with Tavares doesn't mean jack shit in the playoffs. Tavares is the easiest player on the ice for Tampa's D to defend.

Maybe not with Marner? He is still a 75 pt player

Personally I would try to get Tavares playing soft minutes with kase and Blackwell to try to get him going and have a spezza. Kerfoot nylander line to each matchups alive

But if keefe won’t do

Bunting. Matthews. Marner
Miky. Kampf. Engvall
Blackwell. Tavares. Kase
Spezza. Kerfoot. Nylander

I would try

Kerfoot. Matthews. Nylander
Bunting. Tavares. Marner
Kampf line
Kase. Blackwell. Spezza


Also why is it that we always have a million right handed forwards. But never d?

It’s so weird.

 

[IPS]

So, keep running Matthews / Marner who have been completely shut down as the series has progressed, and Tavares / Nylander who have no chemistry and haven't worked for 82 games this season and 4 games so far this playoffs?

Didn't say anything about any of that.

Tavares is very clearly the weak link in this top-6 and it serves no purpose putting any of our best offensive players next to him. Me and many others can see this.

 

[Mopar]

Didn't say anything about any of that.

Tavares is very clearly the weak link in this top-6 and it serves no purpose putting any of our best offensive players next to him. Me and many others can see this.

I ask because trying Tavares with Marner seems logical. He's not seeing the 4th line and the 3rd line isn't being broken up.

Last night would have been a great time to try something different with the top two lines with the game out of reach and Keefe rolled the same combos. Shit, he rolled Matthews / Marner all the way to the final horn in game 7 during last year's debacle against Montreal. I don't get it.

 

[Jojalu]

I completely disagree with OP.
Can't keep moving the goalposts when they don't step up. What will define this team is not game 1, or game 4. It will be winning the series or losing it. That has not changed since opening faceoff in game one of this season.

Now Tuesday they can go out an play a near perfect game and the talk will be how they dug in and found that extra gear, etc. ... At least until game 6 in Tampa, and possibly game 7 back in Toronto.

So no, nothing will be figured out Tuesday, win or lose. We will only know what this team is about if and when they win the series, or not. Until then, we've seen it all before.

Everything you said is spot on. This was always going to be a dogfight.

The Leafs have looked both terrific and horrible. So has Tampa.

I will hold off judgement til the series is over.

 

[Nineteen67]

Why can’t any of the Leafs’ core players play like Brayden Point plays in the playoffs?

 

[TheGroceryStick]

We're not at 'who cares' territory. The series is tied and you're acting like we need to just say f*** it and change everything in a last ditch effort. Putting Sandin in cold would be a bad idea, he'd get killed by their forecheck.

'Who cares' about LH/RH; trying to match size, shutdown etc. Is what I mean by who cares.

Get the better dmen in and try something fresh. (Though I'm fine with Boosh, for the most part)

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Sounds like a fantastic plan if you want to ruin Marner's offense for this series and make him play defense for 2 people.

Marner has 1 point in the last 3 games, so I am not sure things could be worse.

 

[Racer88]

It’s hard for anyone to be motivated when you’re already down 2-0 or 3-0 before getting a quality shift.

I do agree the stars do have to be better, but at the same time the last two coaches have not helped to put our stars in good positions. With home advantage keefe doesn’t get the Matthews line away from the Point line. It was the same thing against Danault. I don’t understand it, if you have last change use it to your advantage. Babcock just flat out refused to put our stars out there in key moments. It’s the playoffs you need to be double shifting these guys and letting them go all out. Keefe basically had the mindset that losing this game isn’t a big deal and you can tell from his presser.

He is a big part of the core not coming prepared

I would guess the 11 million dollar contracts should be motivation. Even the players making low millions should be motivated. I would guess personal pride should be motivation..
I would also be curious to know what additional steps Keefe should do to have them prepared. Wouldn’t you think that players skilled enough to make the NHL and that have been in pressure situations since they were 6 years old should show up ready to,play in such an important game?

 

[2 Slick]

Marner has 1 point in the last 3 games, so I am not sure things could be worse.

Compared to Marner’s usual standards in the playoffs, that’s him being good.

I was actually quite surprised with how good he was in games one and two and in parts of game three. However, he and Auston Matthews have not been providing the type of offence we’ve seen during the regular season, just two goals apiece in four playoff games, it’s not enough. Matthews hasn’t had a goal since game one, one of those being an empty net gaffe goal and the other being a 5 on 3 power-play goal.

I don’t know why these two can’t bring their regular season offence to the playoffs, I know Tampa is smothering them, but every other top player on every other team is elevating their games, even Evander Kane has four goals for Edmonton. They’ve got to be better.