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Shanwhatplan said:
So do they have the PK stats for each goalie?
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NHL Goalie Advanced Stats 2024-2025

NHL Goalie Analytics, Goals Saved Above Expected
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powerplay is a huge problem

1 for their last 20, I remember a similar skid happened in the canadian division

My original idea was swap bert and JT, as tavares is too slow to keep up. However, bert looks too unskilled and low iq to keep up so I'd rather we split the units up. I think the obvious duos have their own issues

Marner - Matthews: Marner will be exclusively looking for Matthews and could make the powerplay 10x more readable, especially since matthews isn't an elite playmaker

Tavares - Nylander: This forces Nylander to carry, shoot and pass the puck as tavares cannot do any of them. 20 games ago I'd be up for this idea, as of the last 10ish games, the nylander of old has returned so I don't think he can do it

So I would propose the OG pp and JT-MM unit two

OG PP:
Bert
Nylander - Domi - Matthews
Rielly

JT-MM PP:
Tavares
Robertson - Jarnkrok/Knies - Marner
Liljegren

PP1 has nylander as the main distributor, domi as the secondary distributor, matthews as the trigger man, bert as net front presence and rielly running the point. This powerplay would have dual threats in Matthews and Nylander with two different players for the pkers to worry about shooting. Domi can also make quick passes around to others and bert in boston was money in high slot arean and net front.

PP2 has Marner main facilitator, jarnkrok has a decent one timer so a nice bumper play, robertson as a trigger man, Tavares net front and Liljegren up top. This pp can have marner and liljegren swap to have marner qb from the point and set liljegren and robertson up for one timers. This unit would play to marners passing ability, slap passes, bumper plays, cross seam, tips. Marner would run it for the most part. Only thing is marner would need to continue to score and shoot to take the pressure away from the other guys or we would return to the 90 game pp goal drought in the past.

I think we need to abandon the stacked unit for the time being and switch it up, 1/20 is a horrible stretch and the players don't look like they know what they are doing over the last 10 or so.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
Shorthanded goaltending stats exist, but that information isn't really relevant here. You still need to use skater defensive metrics to measure skater defense on the PK.
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No, but you do keep forgetting context, that teams use multiple goaltenders throughout a season, and most importantly, that goaltending performance and impact from any individual goalie fluctuates quite a bit throughout a season and within a game. It is not a static factor.

That was from you, and this is why I asked the question.
 
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Shanwhatplan said:
Thanks, but I was referring to playoff performances, because I believe that was what Dekes was talking about (I could be wrong on that).
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None of the discussion was about playoffs. Playoffs are available on that site though.
Shanwhatplan said:
No, but you do keep forgetting context, that teams use multiple goaltenders throughout a season, and most importantly, that goaltending performance and impact from any individual goalie fluctuates quite a bit throughout a season and within a game. It is not a static factor.
That was from you, and this is why I asked the question.
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The statement actually highlights why the specific goalie doesn't matter. No matter the goalie, there's always going to be significant outcome variations for functionally equivalent plays. I posted an example to highlight this concept in an earlier post. A team allows two breakaways in a game, on the same goalie. The first one is saved, and the second one goes in. The individual essentially argued that the players that allowed the first breakaway are better defensively than the players that allowed the second breakaway, because the goalie performance on that play produced a different outcome. It should be clear to everybody that that is wrong. What the skaters allowed defensively was the same. What the goalie did was different. You cannot attribute goalie impacts to skaters, and that's why we use skater defensive metrics to measure skater defense.
 
I’d simply switch Bertuzzi and Tavares on the PP. John just isn’t effective out there right now and it’s painful watching him on the PP. Most of Bertuzzi’s best work with the Bruins came on the powerplay. If the Leafs are serious about “de-emphasizing the core four” as Treliving put it they’d remove the weakest link from a stagnant powerplay.
 
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Jimmy Firecracker said:
I’d simply switch Bertuzzi and Tavares on the PP. John just isn’t effective out there right now and it’s painful watching him on the PP. Most of Bertuzzi’s best work with the Bruins came on the powerplay. If the Leafs are serious about “de-emphasizing the core four” as Treliving put it they’d remove the weakest link from a stagnant powerplay.
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Outside of the 7 games last playoffs, Bertuzzi hasn't been that great of a PP player throughout his career though. And if we're talking about merit, Bertuzzi is more deserving of being kicked off the PP completely than being promoted. Most PP cold stretches pop up when the players stop moving their feet and/or puck as quickly and effectively. I'm not sure Tavares or Bertuzzi standing in the slot is going to make much difference, and I wouldn't really want Bertuzzi doing anything else and losing the puck.
 
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studebaker17 said:
Other than saleries why would the Leafs be projected to be any better of a PP than half the other teams out there ? To me their look average if that . Still no true Blueline quarterback . Hense why they play 2 forwards back there a lot of the time .

8th isn't to bad anyways and within a couple % of 4th .

Think for us watching it becomes stale . Same feelings happen for every version of Leafs iv'e watched in my lifetime . You see the same entries , same set up ect over and over .

All that said watch Tampa's PP when they're on . It's like poetry . Kuch ,Stammer , Point all can fire the puck or pass . Hedman same . Watch how fast they move the puck around and move the puck through the seam in a lot tighter than the Leafs move it .

To me there's 2 faults on the Leafs PP. If Tavares gets the puck and tries to carry it , it's an automatic icing . The other is not moving around enough and just moving the puck around the outside while 3 players stand almost still .
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"Other than salaries"...

It's a salary cap world. Value is everything in this league.

There's very little other criteria to evaluate players. If we're icing the most expensive PP, then we obviously expect top of the league results, logically.


I think the fact that this PP isn't leading the league by a large margin signifies that we have a poorly coached and poorly built team, with obviously horribly negotiated contracts.
 
Dekes For Days said:
None of the discussion was about playoffs. Playoffs are available on that site though.

The statement actually highlights why the specific goalie doesn't matter. No matter the goalie, there's always going to be significant outcome variations for functionally equivalent plays. I posted an example to highlight this concept in an earlier post. A team allows two breakaways in a game, on the same goalie. The first one is saved, and the second one goes in. The individual essentially argued that the players that allowed the first breakaway are better defensively than the players that allowed the second breakaway, because the goalie performance on that play produced a different outcome. It should be clear to everybody that that is wrong. What the skaters allowed defensively was the same. What the goalie did was different. You cannot attribute goalie impacts to skaters, and that's why we use skater defensive metrics to measure skater defense.
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and that's why we use skater defensive metrics to measure skater defense.

Sorry, but can you explain this bolded part?
 
The PP is the most frustrating thing to watch, zero adjustments made by Keefe. It's the same drop pass bullshit every time, teams have picked up on this. Even on the PP too much force feeding Matthews, opposing teams are shadowing him which is fine, but that means there are other seams that are open.

Zone entries are the biggest issue and too predictable once set up

For the PK, better goaltending would obviously help but we need to do a better job of clearing the crease. Lots of shots in tight, guys screening the goalie.
 
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Shanwhatplan said:
and that's why we use skater defensive metrics to measure skater defense.
Sorry, but can you explain this bolded part?
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Sure. Goals against is a stat that combines the defensive impact/results of skaters, and the goaltending impact/results of goalies.
We then also have stats that isolate one or the other separately (shots, chances, xGA, etc. for defense, and GSAx for goalies).

The individual I responded to attempted to use the stat that combines defense and goaltending to make claims about the defensive play of skaters, instead of using the stats that isolate skater defensive play. Which attributed goaltending impacts to the skaters, and led to an incorrect conclusion.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
Sure. Goals against is a stat that combines the defensive impact/results of skaters, and the goaltending impact/results of goalies.
We then also have stats that isolate one or the other separately (shots, chances, xGA, etc. for defense, and GSAx for goalies).

The individual I responded to attempted to use the stat that combines defense and goaltending to make claims about the defensive play of skaters, instead of using the stats that isolate skater defensive play. Which attributed goaltending impacts to the skaters, and led to an incorrect conclusion.
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But are you saying that goalies have little/no impact to the skaters then?
 
Shanwhatplan said:
So how can each skater be individualized for these stats?
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Separating out defensive impact for individuals on the ice at the same time can be difficult and imperfect, especially for small sample situations with more fixed groupings. Often relies on relative metrics and microstats. But the dispute in question wasn't even about that, or about players on the ice at the same time. It was just an attempt to use the wrong stats in order to claim the wrong conclusion that they liked better.
 
The power play is in a slump, but it will come back. That's the easy one. Penalty killing is the much bigger issue between the two. For the latter to really improve, some different players are needed.
 
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Benoit should be someone heavily leaned on to PK.

Big body, long reach, will block shots, is strong in front of his net.

Brodie's regression has had a significant impact on our team.
 
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