ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
- 76,259
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Good they moved on before he fell further down the depth chart. 
Confirmed with Link: Leafs Trade: Liljegren to San Jose for Matt Benning, 3rd and 6th
- Thread starter DarkKnight
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rumman
Registered User
- Sep 10, 2008
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I don’t see it, I think both are serviceable bottom 6 D men, Benny’s had some bad luck with penalties and for the one game Myers played he didn’t look that bad, but I not a stat nerd, I just watch them play and they’re acceptable as a bottom pairing imo. Timmins is a fringe guy who’s defensive abilities are suspect, I’d rather the bottom pairing be a shut down team, could care less about any offensive abilities………
- Dec 12, 2017
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His Corsi isn’t great. In the low 40s in Nashville and high 30s in SJ.
We’ll see how they both fare with their new teams.
ETA above his ALL Corsi. 5v5 is better and mid 40s
Last edited:
- Dec 12, 2017
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- 11,617
Happy for Timmy. I still believe he has the skillset to be an everyday top-4 defensemen in the league. We were never really in a position to let Timmy learn on the job and help gain his confidence that way. He is the type of player that needs to be afforded a bit of a leash to truly untap his full potential.
Not thrilled with the return, although it is likely fair given his cap hit at this point. Overall, just poor asset management by Brad IMO. This move needed to be made during the offseason, when we could have at least played to the illusion of him being an everyday D-man. Signing him to a 3Mill ticket and then shelfing him was never really going to get us a high return.
But nonetheless, I am just happy Timmy is going to get a fair shake somewhere else.
All the best
Not thrilled with the return, although it is likely fair given his cap hit at this point. Overall, just poor asset management by Brad IMO. This move needed to be made during the offseason, when we could have at least played to the illusion of him being an everyday D-man. Signing him to a 3Mill ticket and then shelfing him was never really going to get us a high return.
But nonetheless, I am just happy Timmy is going to get a fair shake somewhere else.
All the best
Torontonian
Registered User
I don't think it has to do with having bad taste in d-man (well it does a little), but if you're playing in the 5-6 hole, you got to be able to kill pens and be effective in your own zone. Lillypad didn't do either of that. That was problem #1. I do agree signing players like Giordano to play over him was a mistake.
I think there should be a happy medium when it comes to betting on skill, in Dubas days there wasn't enough balance on the roster.
conFABulator
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2021
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It seems to be accepted as fact that Tre tried to move him in the off-season and there wasn't any real interest in him.
It seems to me like what happened here was BT tried to move him in the off-season and there were no takers with his uneven development curve, being scratched in the playoffs, age, and RFA status being the reasons why.
So, Brad signed him hoping that maybe the new coach could get different results and if not, he would trade him for the underwhelming return in season. The two year deal he signed was designed to be moved, being so front loaded.
I think BT and the Leafs did OK here. It's not a great return, but he is not a great asset.
rumman
Registered User
- Sep 10, 2008
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Leaf have a bad habit of shopping players and when no one bites they sign them to overblown contracts, luckily Tre was able to move this mistake, Styles not so much……..
uncleben
Global Moderator
Ya there is an element of truth to what you say for sure. I think I have been historically more bullish on Timmy over the years. Sure there are flaws to his game, but all of which were manageable in there current state, and IMO were entirely mental.
He is one of the few players in our system that I have tracked even during his time in the AHL. The one most noticeable aspect of his game is that it is entirely predicated on his confidence level. Not unlike other players in the league, but for Timmy he really appears insecure with his own abilities at times. All that to say, I think you really need to encourage him to play loose, and play free despite the potential risk that comes with that style of play.
A confident Timmy is a hell of a player.
He is like the Jack Campbell of defensemen. He just seems to lose confidence way too easily. I am really not surprised he didn't implant himself under Berube for that reason alone.
To your point about Brad trying to move him in the summer and there being no takers, I am not sure you extend him to a 2 x 3AAV ticket if your intention was to move him. I feel like his RFA rights were more valuable than him as a player under that contract. But that's just my opinion.
Clearly we needed to move on from him, so I can't be too upset about the haul. It was just no longer the right fit.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Unfortunately it's a reminder in a way that the Leafs early drafting during the rebuild really didn't work out for the team.
For the first few drafts of the rebuild so far we only have like Woll and Holmberg as non-1st round picks turned players
We had balance and a happy medium back then. The issue was some people didn't want actual balance. They refused to accept anything other than a team full of 20 Charas, and a time machine to go back to the 80s.
TMLBlueandWhite
Registered User
- Feb 2, 2023
- 1,919
- 1,994
Ha Ha... Beat it.
Liljegen was useless here anyway. I'm surprised Treliving was able to extract anything of value for him at all. At first I thought a third and a sixth was a pretty good return.
Then I realized some of that is probably the cost to take Benning back as part of the return.
I watch the games on mute and fast forward through all commentary. So I wasn't even sure how to pronounce Liljegren's name until last year the first time I heard my kid say it. I'll probably forget all about him by this time next year.
I'll be too busy bitching about his replacement.
At 6'01" and 200+ lbs Liljegren is not a small man he only plays like it is all. Perhaps if he showed some backbone it would have made up for his showboating freewheeling ways. The fact he can't up his game when it matters most makes San Jose the perfect landing spot for this spineless no show hotdogger.
Good riddance.
Liljegen was useless here anyway. I'm surprised Treliving was able to extract anything of value for him at all. At first I thought a third and a sixth was a pretty good return.
Then I realized some of that is probably the cost to take Benning back as part of the return.
I watch the games on mute and fast forward through all commentary. So I wasn't even sure how to pronounce Liljegren's name until last year the first time I heard my kid say it. I'll probably forget all about him by this time next year.
I'll be too busy bitching about his replacement.
At 6'01" and 200+ lbs Liljegren is not a small man he only plays like it is all. Perhaps if he showed some backbone it would have made up for his showboating freewheeling ways. The fact he can't up his game when it matters most makes San Jose the perfect landing spot for this spineless no show hotdogger.
Good riddance.
Nick Kypreos: Even a hat trick can’t shake the realities the Maple Leafs face with John Tavares
The Leafs know that having Tavares as their second-line centre historically hasn’t worked out. They’d be ill-advised to stick with that formula again.
www.thestar.com
• The Leafs were thrilled to see 30-year-old Olli Määttä traded to Utah for a third-round pick. That solidified Timothy Liljegren’s value since he’s five years younger with more upside. The addition of Matt Benning helps their cap but doesn’t address the roster crunch the team still has. Expect him to be assigned to the Marlies soon.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
It's a fairly meh return, but it was the right call to move him before it got too late. It's nice to get another trade chip for the tdl this year and Benning is a warm body for the bottom pairing (though he may end up in the AHL for cap reasons)
The summer contract remains puzzling, should have cut ties much sooner with the player. Maybe even last year.
Wish Lily all the best though, seemed like a nice guy. Hopefully for him he makes the team look foolish one day
The summer contract remains puzzling, should have cut ties much sooner with the player. Maybe even last year.
Wish Lily all the best though, seemed like a nice guy. Hopefully for him he makes the team look foolish one day
Fogelhund
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2007
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Hellcat
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2022
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It becomes a game of Jenga... someone drops to the ECHL or is released from their contract.
Ianturnedbull
Registered User
- Jun 11, 2022
- 5,972
- 5,372
I would argue that playing bad, playing worse in the playoffs, and being untalented hurts your overall value.
Punch Drunk Loov
Thought Viktor Loov was going to be a guy
- Dec 6, 2011
- 5,595
- 3,980
We kept him over Sandin who got us a 1st + Gustavsson, so we thought Lilly was better at the time. From that view, it's a bad return, but if none of our coaches like him it is what it is, we tried to work something out, failed, and had to sell at a low. This didn't shake out well for us and we had to bank on Maata's value for a comp lol
ULF_55
Moderator
If you think he's bad, then his value was further tanked by Treliving signing him to a 3m contract.
Although I am willing to admit, Kyle Dubas' draft record may not be as fruitful as I once thought it would be, I still believe in the principle of drafting skill over athletic profile.
There are some very key bits of information that is being left out of the drafts that you speak of
In the 8 drafts that followed the Auston Matthews draft, we have only selected in the top 2 rounds of the draft 11 times. Of those 11 picks, only 1 of them appears to be clear and obviously a miss (Eemeli Rasanen). 5 of the remaining 10 players we drafted in the top 2 rounds have played significant time in the NHL already and appear they will have lengthy NHL careers (Lilly, Sandin, Durzi, Robby, and Knies). Which leaves us with 5 other players drafted in the top 2 rounds of the post rebuild era, 1 of which was tracking wonderfully and then tragically passed away (Amirov). So that leaves us with Hirvonen, Minten, Cowan and Danford. 2 of those players appear to be tracking very well to have NHL careers (Cowan and Minten), 1 of them is tacking to be a bust (Hirvonen), and one is too early to tell.
Point being, it is really hard to hit on players after those top 2 rounds. We've hit at a relatively decent rate in the top 2 rounds IMO. But we just haven't had enough selections in those rounds to pay dividends.
Point being, just because guys like Sandin, Lilly, Durzi, and maybe eventually Robby are not fits for our current roster construction, it doesn't mean they weren't/aren't good selections/players.
To put it in perspective, lets look at the previous 4 cup champions draft records during that same window. After all we have been competing with those teams for that mug and have the same approach as them, just with vastly different playoff results.
Parameters are players selected in rounds 1&2 between 2017 and now
Toronto - 11 Players selected, 841 NHL games played
Florida - 12 players selected, 706 NHL games played
Vegas - 14 Players selected, 1529 NHL Games Played. Caveat being they selected 5 players in that inaugural 2017 draft in the top 2 rounds and only Nick Hague remains on their squad. Most of those games played were accumulated on other teams (Branstrom, Suzuki, Glass)
Colorado - 11 players selected, 992 NHL games played. Caveat being Colorado was not competitive during that entire 8 year stretch and had 2 top 5 selections in Makar and Byram accounting for 500 of those 992 games.
TB - 8 players selected, 227 NHL games played
All that to say, It is so easy to say we've drafted poorly based on the players we have remaining on the roster, but when you peel back the rug a bit, it is not the case at all. The players we have selected have largely been best player available, and they've hit more than they've missed. Just because stylistacally their skillsets don't fill a void in our lineup, does not mean they are not good players or assets. I think going forward we just need to move on from players like Timmy at the same point in their careers as Sandin was. Clearly there was not a path for Sandin in our lineup going forward, so move the asset while their value is still high.
thusk
Registered User
and what do you think leafs would get more from a 6/7 th whos able year after year showing good thing 1st half but when the game becoming faster on second half and forechecking harder, he struggle every season forcing his team to make move and struggling to stay in line up despite huge need come playoff time...
What leafs get wqs exactly what i expected last summer, the only difference right now is team around NHL saw really what their team look like and having pretty limited potential trade target to fix it so they took risk contrairly from offseason...
Personally i don't think Liljegren value really change
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
- 33,375
- 52,615
Mirtle said the same thing last night. He asked around the league at the draft and there wasn't much interest in him. Go back to when the Kings balked at him in a trade, we've over inflated this guy's worth for years.
