Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign Roni Hirvonen and Topi Niemelä to ELCs

[SeaOfBlue]

For Liiga, those regular season numbers (0.56 PPG) are really not that good if you compare them to other Finnish prospects at the same age. I like Hirvonen's game but the numbers this year were disappointing until the playoffs.

It is the 4th best U20 PPG in the Liiga behind Raty, Niemela, and Kemell... And that was with a very slow start.

Hirvonen is also not pure offense. He is going to be a guy who maybe plays 2PP, but his main value will be similar to what you get out of Kerfoot; high end PK, can put up offense without being given prime offensive opportunities, and can play multiple positions up and down the lineup.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

They have to be offered back to their European to teams if they don't make the NHL as part of the transfer agreement.

I wouldn't be upset if that happens. Niemela is the only one who would likely get a similar or better role than he would get in Europe right now. Hirvonen and Ovchinnikov would probably struggle to get quality ice time, but if the Leafs don't want Ovchinnikov to go back to Russia, at least it makes sense for him to be on the Growlers. Hirvonen should be either getting big minutes with the Marlies or with his Liiga team.

 

[Thornbury]

There is room for Niemela right now. We need high end RD and I think he is good enough to be a top 4 RD on day 1. Maybe not as much room for Hirvonen, especially when we could use some veterans in our top 9.

I am not confident about any of the Finns (outside of Rindell, although he should not have been given an ELC) coming over next year. They all had one more year on their Liiga deals and we may let them honour it.

At the same time, we would be talking about a lot of guys who take up contract spots but are not on our NA roster, and we may not have enough contract spots to comfortably have the depth chart we want in the AHL next year. If we also include Ovchinnikov in that mix, because he could struggle to find ice time with the Marlies next year and may head back to Europe himself, that is 4 guys. We were already close to the limit before signing these two guys and we still have various holes at both the NHL and AHL level that need to be filled next year. We absolutely should have signed Niemela/Hirvonen, but I do still question signing guys like Rindell and McMann when contract spots are at a premium right now.

My understanding is that there will be a number of players with expiring contracts at the end of this year, like Duszak, who won't be re signed, thereby opening up more slots. That's why these contracts are classified ad "futures".

 

[stickty111]

If the Leafs trade Holl in the off-season I wonder if it's because they think Niemela has a chance at stepping right into the Leafs' line up.

Maybe I'm reading too much into Dubas's comments but he said "they will go back to Finland if they don't make the Leafs roster". He could have just back to Finland but adding the 2nd part maybe they think one or both could make it. Liklier for Niemela but a bit interesting.

 

[ULF_55]

I believe Niemela could be the sort of defense prospect who comes to his first camp and forces the team to think long and hard about keeping him with the NHL club.

Kaberle 2?

You would hope Dabus eventually hits one out of the park.

So far nothing that makes his legacy.

 

[Stephen]

If the Leafs trade Holl in the off-season I wonder if it's because they think Niemela has a chance at stepping right into the Leafs' line up.

I find the idea of a blueline that includes Niemela, Sandin and Liljegren all at once to be a bit scary. Bit too green, undersized and apprenticing all at once.

 

[Tarmore]

I find the idea of a blueline that includes Niemela, Sandin and Liljegren all at once to be a bit scary. Bit too green, undersized and apprenticing all at once.

How long is this apprenticeship?

Liljegren has played 148 regular season games in the AHL and 74 on the NHL

Sandin has played only 66 AHL regular season games and 88 NHL regular season game.

 

[Nineteen67]

Has Niemala grown enough to be an NHL defenceman next year?

 

[Morgs]

Has Niemala grown enough to be an NHL defenceman next year?

Enough that he'd probably be able to keep his head above water in a sheltered role, but also not enough that a large vocal part of the fanbase would sour on him like they did Liljegren for no reason.

 

[Nineteen67]

Enough that he'd probably be able to keep his head above water in a sheltered role, but also not enough that a large vocal part of the fanbase would sour on him like they did Liljegren for no reason.

What‘s enough?

 

[Morgs]

What‘s enough?

Did you read the rest of the post?

 

[Gallagbi]

If the Leafs trade Holl in the off-season I wonder if it's because they think Niemela has a chance at stepping right into the Leafs' line up.

I think he'll be gone for cap reasons either way. He's an easy guy to shave

 

[ULF_55]

Has Niemala grown enough to be an NHL defenceman next year?

Elite has him about the same size as Spurgeon and Girard.

 

[Nineteen67]

Did you read the rest of the post?

I did. You dont know either.

It'll be tough playing in the NHL at 165 lbs, so before he gets pencilled in as a starter, it’d be nice to know if he's physically mature enough.

Elite has him about the same size as Spurgeon and Girard.

180ish?

 

[Mess]

Has Niemala grown enough to be an NHL defenceman next year?

Topi Niemelä isn't even above Sandin and Liljegren on the depth chart, and those 2 are still trying to establish themselves as regulars not only in regular season but playoffs in Toronto.

Baring a miracle Thomas Kaberle like pre-season breakout performance, this guy will be back in Finland where he is under contract for next season with Karpat (on loan). IMO

 

[Nineteen67]

Topi Niemelä isn't even above Sandin and Liljegren on the depth chart, and those 2 are still trying to establish themselves as regulars not only in regular season but playoffs in Toronto.

Baring a miracle Thomas Kaberle like pre-season breakout performance, this guy will be back in Finland where he is under contract for next season with Karpat (on loan). IMO

A 20 yo. playing D is rare. I suspect the goal is to have him come to camp, maybe play a preseason game and learn what it’s all about, before heading back to Finland.

 

[Mess]

Elite has him about the same size as Spurgeon and Girard.

You can count on 1 hand how many NHL Dman play in the NHL at 170'bs..

Anyone that happened to catch yesterday's Avs/Blues tilt, would have seen Samuel Girard taken into the boards on a heavy hit and leaving the game and out for this years playoffs with a broken sternum and currently in hospital.



- The sternum is a long, flat bone in the centre of the chest. It is connected to the ribs with cartilage. Together with the ribs, it helps to protect important organs in the chest, such as the heart and lungs, from damage.

Serious injury from contact always the concern with small players in the game.

 

[Morgs]

I did. You dont know either.

It'll be tough playing in the NHL at 165 lbs, so before he gets pencilled in as a starter, it’d be nice to know if he's physically mature enough.


180ish?

Lol I didn't realize you meant "growth" literally.

There are plenty of guys his size in the NHL. He's not going to physically overmatch guys, it's not his style. He struggles a bit with in zone defense due to his strength, but its similar to Liljegren in his positioning is strong, hes got a grest stick, uses the physicality he has, and he's got an excellent first pass which makes it so they don't typically spend extended times in his own end.

He really shines with defensive transitions in that he knows when to jump the blueline and disrupt entries, and the odd time he'll step up and crush someone. Another thing that makes it so his team doesn't spend extended times in his own end.

As for weight/height I don't really pay attention to that. I know he's been listed at 6' before and I'd guess he'll have a final weight he'd be listed at some time.

 

[Mess]

They have to be offered back to their European to teams if they don't make the NHL as part of the transfer agreement.

Dubas himself confirmed that the other day during and interview.

 

[ULF_55]

You can count on 1 hand how many NHL Dman play in the NHL at 170'bs..

Anyone that happened to catch yesterday's Avs/Blues tilt, would have seen Samuel Girard taken into the boards on a heavy hit and leaving the game and out for this years playoffs with a broken sternum and currently in hospital.



- The sternum is a long, flat bone in the centre of the chest. It is connected to the ribs with cartilage. Together with the ribs, it helps to protect important organs in the chest, such as the heart and lungs, from damage.

Serious injury from contact always the concern with small players in the game.

Girard has played 384 NHL games over 5 years.
Keep in mind 2 of those during shortened seasons, but looks like he plays about 90+% of the games.

Brodie looks to have about 9 lbs. on him.

 

[Mess]

Girard has played 384 NHL games over 5 years.
Keep in mind 2 of those during shortened seasons, but looks like he plays about 90+% of the games.

Brodie looks to have about 9 lbs. on him.

What's the average size of a NHL player?

The average NHLer is 73.33" (6'1 1/3") tall, weighs 204.42 lbs.

The average forward is 72.93" (6'1") tall, weighs 202.4 lbs.
The average defenseman is 73.87" (6'1 7/8") tall, weighs 209.66 lbs.

Who are the smallest Dmen in the NHL?

Of the 112 Dmen that played a game in the 2021-22 NHL season, there are currently only 3 Dmen in the NHL listed as 170lbs or smaller.

1. Jared Spurgeon (MIN).. 166 lbs
2. Kris Russell (EDM) ... 170 lbs
3. Samuel Girard (COL)... 170 lbs

 

[justashadowof]

Just did a quick search: 8 defensemen in the NHL 175lbs and under who played 30 or more games in 2021-22.

 

[ULF_55]

What's the average size of a NHL player?

The average NHLer is 73.33" (6'1 1/3") tall, weighs 204.42 lbs.

The average forward is 72.93" (6'1") tall, weighs 202.4 lbs.
The average defenseman is 73.87" (6'1 7/8") tall, weighs 209.66 lbs.

Who are the smallest Dmen in the NHL?

Of the 112 Dmen that played a game in the 2021-22 NHL season, there are currently only 3 Dmen in the NHL listed as 170lbs or smaller.

1. Jared Spurgeon (MIN).. 166 lbs
2. Kris Russell (EDM) ... 170 lbs
3. Samuel Girard (COL)... 170 lbs

Yeah, I was suprised Brodie was so small, 179 lbs. and he's played 816 NHL games?

Guess at that size you have to play smarter.

 

[Mess]

A 20 yo. playing D is rare. I suspect the goal is to have him come to camp, maybe play a preseason game and learn what it’s all about, before heading back to Finland.

Leafs believe they've discovered this decades next Finish Reijo Ruotsalainen.

More development time required, with the strength and conditioning team to allow him to get stronger as he matures and fills out.

If were to guess, I'd conservatively say 1 more year in Finland, and then perhaps a couple in the AHL in North America getting use to the smaller rinks and ice size and style of game. The big Euro rinks and game is quite different stylistically, so there is a transition process with Euro prospects.

Rasmus Sandin drafted in 2018 played a year in the OHL and then parts of 2 years in the AHL before really becoming a player last year at age 22. Liljegren drafted the year earlier is already 23 now and spent part of 4 years in the AHL and both of those players were 1st round picks and highly regarded prospects whereas Niemelä is only 20 and a 3rd round pick.

 

[Nineteen67]

Lol I didn't realize you meant "growth" literally.

There are plenty of guys his size in the NHL. He's not going to physically overmatch guys, it's not his style. He struggles a bit with in zone defense due to his strength, but its similar to Liljegren in his positioning is strong, hes got a grest stick, uses the physicality he has, and he's got an excellent first pass which makes it so they don't typically spend extended times in his own end.

He really shines with defensive transitions in that he knows when to jump the blueline and disrupt entries, and the odd time he'll step up and crush someone. Another thing that makes it so his team doesn't spend extended times in his own end.

As for weight/height I don't really pay attention to that. I know he's been listed at 6' before and I'd guess he'll have a final weight he'd be listed at some time.

One day he may play in the NHL but going against guys like this is a challenge