Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign Nick Robertson (1 year, $875k)

[acrobaticgoalie]

Based on what?

Based on the fact that he was on pace for 20 goals and 40 pts despite only playing 10 minutes a night, playing with guys like Kampf and no pp time.

You don't think with his shot and getting maybe around 14 minutes, including PP Time with star players setting him up, that he can't get another 10 goals and 10 assists?

 

[Gallagbi]

Based on what?

Probably his play. 21 goal pace in limited 3rd line minutes as a 22 year old. Usually those guys get better with age and minutes.

 

[Gilmour1996]

There are some of "ifs" in his game. If he can stay healthy. If he can be successful playing against better players. If he can be trusted defensively. If he can just stay on his feet! No net improvement scoring 30 goals if he is on the ice for 40+ goals against. My guess is that he will also be a pain in the neck for management during his next contract negotiation. If he has a good year do you open the vault for what might have been an outlier year and hope that he doesn't go back to Mr. Injury? How are the top-6 going to play tougher when you already have too many softies in the top-6? Too many question marks so hopefully he'll be a good fit on another team and we can get a decent asset in return.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Oh?

Domi is about as one dimensional as you can get, for one.

 

[Fogelhund]

Domi is about as one dimensional as you can get, for one.

Of course, when I’m thinking of prospects looking to break into the NHL and establish themselves as full time players, I think of Domi.

 

[Fogelhund]

Was Domi trusted in all situations before being given his minutes and first dibs at the top line replacement winger? You don’t need to trust the guy defensively necessarily you just need to trust that the positives will outweigh the negatives if he’s used in the right situation. If we can run Domi at 1C in May I don’t see an issue running Robertson in an offensive middle 6 in October, it’s not like we’re flush with better LWs for that job.

This premise that a player who has been in the league for a decade, with a proven track record of putting up points, is somehow equivalent to a young player trying to establish themselves in a lineup is misguided at best. Domi put up 54 points the year before joining us.

A veteran player with a track record is just not a comparable to a prospect trying to cement a position in the top six.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Of course, when I’m thinking of prospects looking to break into the NHL and establish themselves as full time players, I think of Domi.

Prospects wasn't part of it; not that all of our other prospects are defensive wizards anyway. It was about one dimensional players with top six aspirations, and Domi absolutely fits that. Robertson is not perfect as a rookie, but it would be frustrating for him to keep being told that he has to be perfect to get any opportunity, when others aren't held to that same standard. If anything, veterans should be held to a higher standard, but Domi's limitations don't seem to prevent him from getting prime opportunities.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Based on the fact that he was on pace for 20 goals and 40 pts despite only playing 10 minutes a night, playing with guys like Kampf and no pp time.

You don't think with his shot and getting maybe around 14 minutes, including PP Time with star players setting him up, that he can't get another 10 goals and 10 assists?

I don't ever like to entertain "on pace" arguments. This always assumes that they make their goals, and never have a slide/go 10 games pointless.

That being said. Yes. I do think it's possible for Robo to get better. Definitely not 30 goals better.

 

[Martin Skoula]

This premise that a player who has been in the league for a decade, with a proven track record of putting up points, is somehow equivalent to a young player trying to establish themselves in a lineup is misguided at best. Domi put up 54 points the year before joining us.

A veteran player with a track record is just not a comparable to a prospect trying to cement a position in the top six.

How about everyone has to play hard two way games regardless of whether you’re a rookie or not? It’s even worse when a vet who’s part of the leadership is one of the worst defensive players on the team.

Domi has a track record because he’s been kicking around basement teams with no competition. If he was drafted in the late 1st/2nd on a contender he’d be in the same situation as Robertson where his all-around game kept him from getting the minutes he needs to build up the very same track record that lets him dog it defensively as a vet but still get offensive minutes with superstars. Sorry, putting up 50 points getting force fed PP minutes playing pond hockey with Kaner isn’t the kind of resume that makes you an untouchable top 6er while other guys have to prove themselves defensively just to get more TOI than Reaves.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I don't ever like to entertain "on pace" arguments. This always assumes that they make their goals, and never have a slide/go 10 games pointless.

That being said. Yes. I do think it's possible for Robo to get better. Definitely not 30 goals better.

Pace is basically averages. Every player goes through dips and hot streaks but averages are pretty safe assumptions most of the time.

If Robby was scoring at that rate with shit linemates, low minutes and no pp time in only 56 games, you still don't think he can add just 10 more goals in 26 more games with better usage?

 

[Fogelhund]

How about everyone has to play hard two way games regardless of whether you’re a rookie or not? It’s even worse when a vet who’s part of the leadership is one of the worst defensive players on the team.

Domi has a track record because he’s been kicking around basement teams with no competition. If he was drafted in the late 1st/2nd on a contender he’d be in the same situation as Robertson where his all-around game kept him from getting the minutes he needs to build up the very same track record that lets him dog it defensively as a vet but still get offensive minutes with superstars. Sorry, putting up 50 points getting force fed PP minutes playing pond hockey with Kaner isn’t the kind of resume that makes you an untouchable top 6er while other guys have to prove themselves defensively just to get more TOI than Reaves.

I mean, quite clearly you’ve tried to spin what I’ve said into a completely different direction. The topic was someone aspiring to be a NHL player in the top 6. Domi isn’t that. Cheers.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Pace is basically averages. Every player goes through dips and hot streaks but averages are pretty safe assumptions most of the time.

If Robby was scoring at that rate with shit linemates, low minutes and no pp time in only 56 games, you still don't think he can add just 10 more goals in 26 more games with better usage?

Likely not.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Likely not.

I'd like to hear reasoning as to why you don't think a guy that scored 13 out of 14 goals at even strength wouldn't get 10 more goals if he had Marner feeding his shot on the PP. That's where his bread and butter would be.

 

[ULF_55]

I'd like to hear reasoning as to why you don't think a guy that scored 13 out of 14 goals at even strength wouldn't get 10 more goals if he had Marner feeding his shot on the PP. That's where his bread and butter would be.

My guess he would score more, but the question then is that going to add 10 more PP goals to the team, or just redistribute a similar number of goals?

With Bertuzzi gone, there is an opening on the 2nd. unit.
So Robertson goes from 1 to 10 goals and improves the 2nd. unit.

I think we could all live with that.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

My guess he would score more, but the question then is that going to add 10 more PP goals to the team, or just redistribute a similar number of goals?

With Bertuzzi gone, there is an opening on the 2nd. unit.
So Robertson goes from 1 to 10 goals and improves the 2nd. unit.

I think we could all live with that.

View attachment 907141

Bert has never had more than 6 PP goals in his career. I would think with Robertson's shot he can easily beat that

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I'd like to hear reasoning as to why you don't think a guy that scored 13 out of 14 goals at even strength wouldn't get 10 more goals if he had Marner feeding his shot on the PP. That's where his bread and butter would be.

Reasoning: common sense, grounding, limitation of health and ability, and lack of opportunity.

In reality he's not going to stay healthy (until the day he proves he can), be on a line with Marner, be on PP1, and there's still a possibility he won't be doing that on the Leafs.

 

[ULF_55]

Bert has never had more than 6 PP goals in his career. I would think with Robertson's shot he can easily beat that

A new PP this year ... something to look forward to.

And can still protect Robertson in match-ups.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Reasoning: common sense, grounding, limitation of health and ability, and lack of opportunity.

In reality he's not going to stay healthy (until the day he proves he can), be on a line with Marner, be on PP1, and there's still a possibility he won't be doing that on the Leafs.

Common sense should tell you that when you put players with a certain skillset with talented players and more ice time that they produce more.

The whole point of the Robertson stalemate was that he wasn't given opportunity. He wanted the chance to show that he could produce in the top 6 and PP time and never really got it. He absolutely should be put on the PP.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Common sense should tell you that when you put players with a certain skillset with talented players and more ice time that they produce more.

The whole point of the Robertson stalemate was that he wasn't given opportunity. He wanted the chance to show that he could produce in the top 6 and PP time and never really got it. He absolutely should be put on the PP.

No. This is not Nick Robertson in a vacuum though. I don't believe that every prospects' trajectory is linear. You can't just say that Robo achieved 20 goals with 12 min a night, and if you give him 24 min. he'll produce 40 goals.
He might get an opportunity to play PP, but not the top PP unit.

 

[Racer88]

Maybe he can be the villain to take the heat off Mitch?

The only person that can take the heat of of Mitch is Mitch

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

No. This is not Nick Robertson in a vacuum though. I don't believe that every prospects' trajectory is linear. You can't just say that Robo achieved 20 goals with 12 min a night, and if you give him 24 min. he'll produce 40 goals.
He might get an opportunity to play PP, but not the top PP unit.View attachment 907207

So basically you think that a 22 yr old rookie has peaked or plateaud?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

So basically you think that a 22 yr old rookie has peaked or plateaud?

No. You have to understand that there is a difference between Robertson on the Leafs, and Robertson getting opportunities elsewhere. There are so many good forwards ahead of Robertson on the depth chart. Elsewhere (on a team not expected to compete in the playoffs), he could likely score more points and get more opportunities.

Let's be clear though. I don't think he's a bad player.