Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign defenceman Jani Hakanpää (1 year, $1.47M) (official)

[Sypher04]

Nitpicking but this is not the hardest division anymore. Leafs are on pace for 108 pts, Panthers for 100. In seasons past, Leafs did not win the division with 115 points. This is a weak division. But other than that, I agree with you.

It’s not exactly a weak division, it’s just not the class of the league anymore - it has become more comparable to the other divisions. There is a big difference.

 

[conFABulator]

We have assets if they really want to go for it.

Minten for Laughton
Cowan, 1st, 2nd for Pelech.

The bigger problem is getting a team like NY to agree and making the cap space work.

Yeah, that is about $9M coming in and nothing going out. So even if we had to pay even more to get each team to eat half the salary we still have to find $4.5M in cap space.

This doesn't work. The value is not good either.

People shit on Steve Simmons but he was right about Hakanpaa being cooked

He sure made it sound like a much bigger issue than it turned out to be, no? We got one year of Hakanpaa at a buriable cap hit.

He could take a long rehab and join us around the trade deadline, or he may stay on LTIR and we use that money elsewhere.

 

[Sypher04]

I think the issue people had with Simmons reporting on Hakanpaa was that he acted like he knew something the Leafs didn’t, which was highly unlikely

 

[Dekes For Days]

He sure made it sound like a much bigger issue than it turned out to be, no? We got one year of Hakanpaa at a buriable cap hit.

Technically, we got 2 games, that he played poorly, at a cap hit above the buriable limit.

 

[conFABulator]

Technically, we got 2 games, that he played poorly, at a cap hit above the buriable limit.

Well, it's 100% buriable on LTIR. If he is healthy he plays, if he is not healthy enough to contribute he goes LTIR.

What is the actual downside of having taken this small and calculated gamble?

 

[mcleex]

Why isn't he replacing McCabe

 

[TheGreenTBer]

People have been saying this ever since we kept JVR as our "own rental".

That still pisses me off even today.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It’s not exactly a weak division, it’s just not the class of the league anymore - it has become more comparable to the other divisions. There is a big difference.

Maybe overall but based on the standings today, in terms of who we would face in the playoffs it's the weakest. To be fair, the other division in the East isn't much better either but the East overall provides a much easier path to the finals then the West, that's for sure.

That still pisses me off even today.

I badly wanted to trade him for futures but most people were saying things like "whenever you have a chance you have to go for it", "that's what all the playoff teams do" and my personal favorite - "if you trade him, what kind of message does that send to the team".

 

[Puckstuff]

Yeah, that is about $9M coming in and nothing going out. So even if we had to pay even more to get each team to eat half the salary we still have to find $4.5M in cap space.

This doesn't work. The value is not good either.


He sure made it sound like a much bigger issue than it turned out to be, no? We got one year of Hakanpaa at a buriable cap hit.

He could take a long rehab and join us around the trade deadline, or he may stay on LTIR and we use that money elsewhere.

They can move off from players like Kampf, Jarnkrok, Reaves, etc. They can get retention on players they acquire. They will keep Hakanpää on LTIR. There’s ways to acquire both a 3c and top 4 D with savvy management, which we have a history of doing.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I badly wanted to trade him for futures but most people were saying things like "whenever you have a chance you have to go for it", "that's what all the playoff teams do" and my personal favorite - "if you trade him, what kind of message does that send to the team".

Those people are wrong.

 

[The Iceman]

Technically, we got 2 games, that he played poorly, at a cap hit above the buriable limit.

Not sure about the played poorly part.
No training camp, first NHL action facing Wash and Edmonton.
Leafs won both games.

I think he would need a run of 7-10 games to see if he still has some game.

Have to think an experienced D was worth a flyer @ $1.47/year.
Bet if he shows he can play some games he would fetch a draft pick if we wanted to move him.

 

[conFABulator]

They can move off from players like Kampf, Jarnkrok, Reaves, etc. They can get retention on players they acquire. They will keep Hakanpää on LTIR. There’s ways to acquire both a 3c and top 4 D with savvy management, which we have a history of doing.

Yeah, but now we are talking about trading Minten, Cowan, a 1st and a 2nd and whatever else we have to give up to get multi year retention.

Plus if we remove Jarnkrok and Hakanpaa are already LTIR and we are up against the cap, so they don't help us fit those guys in. Kampf going out covers some of space. Anyone else we move out would have to be replaced too, I don't see how we fit them both in and I still don't like the acquisition cost.

 

[Sypher04]

Maybe overall but based on the standings today, in terms of who we would face in the playoffs it's the weakest. To be fair, the other division in the East isn't much better either but the East overall provides a much easier path to the finals then the West, that's for sure.

I’ll give you that the West certainly appears better this season but pedigree matters. I’d be surprised if Boston, Florida and Tampa are “easier” outs than some of the teams in the West that currently own better records.

I badly wanted to trade him for futures but most people were saying things like "whenever you have a chance you have to go for it", "that's what all the playoff teams do" and my personal favorite - "if you trade him, what kind of message does that send to the team".

The fact they squandered it in the playoffs doesn’t change that the right call was made. You can only judge the decision based on the moment in which it was made. The sentiment expressed in your “favorite” is still 100% correct. Teams cruising to the playoffs (7th place in the league) and largely on the back of their young core don’t subtract from their lineup.

There is a huge difference between “going for it” (which we could definitely say it was too early for) and moving a key piece out to the detriment of a playoff quality roster

Those people are wrong.

Actually, they weren’t.

If this team was bad after drafting and graduating their young stars, like Montreal or Detroit or Buffalo or San Jose, or Anaheim or countless other examples then yeah you move JVR in his last year for assets, but that wasn’t us. We were good immediately and that changes things completely

 

[Dekes For Days]

Well, it's 100% buriable on LTIR. If he is healthy he plays, if he is not healthy enough to contribute he goes LTIR.
What is the actual downside of having taken this small and calculated gamble?

Every contract is 100% buriable on LTIR. That doesn't mean anything. We chose him over other options in the offseason, when alternatives are asset free. His existence and cap hit likely impacted the decision to trade away Lilegren at a low point in value, and now we're stuck playing worse defensemen, and may need to spend assets trading for one. Purposefully going into LTIR is also not a good thing. It didn't end up being as consequential with Jarnkrok getting injured in pre-season, but there would have been potential to accrue cap space otherwise. He also hasn't been very helpful when he's "healthy" either. Quite frankly, we've been lucky that he's been injured enough for LTIR, instead of being healthy enough to be in and out of the lineup; playing badly more often and only qualifying for IR (that doesn't provide cap relief). In the end, the consequences have been relatively small, but the gamble didn't seem all that calculated from the start.

Not sure about the played poorly part.
No training camp, first NHL action facing Wash and Edmonton.
Leafs won both games.
I think he would need a run of 7-10 games to see if he still has some game.

He noticeably struggled with his mobility and decision making, had poor on-ice defensive and overall results despite a heavily sheltered role and deployment with 0 defensive zone starts, and was on for 4 of the 6 goals against in those two games in only 28 minutes in ice time. Yeah, he'd probably benefit from a run of games, but after his injuries, I don't know that he'll ever be able to earn that, and I don't know that his body will ever be able to handle that.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Actually, they weren’t.

If this team was bad after drafting and graduating their young stars, like Montreal or Detroit or Buffalo or San Jose, or Anaheim or countless other examples then yeah you move JVR in his last year for assets, but that wasn’t us. We were good immediately and that changes things completely

Were we?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’ll give you that the West certainly appears better this season but pedigree matters. I’d be surprised if Boston, Florida and Tampa are “easier” outs than some of the teams in the West that currently own better records.

ATM the West has the #1 team in the league, 4 of the top 5 and 7 of the top 10 so that looks like the tougher bracket for sure. But I agree pedigree is a thing too so the gap between the East and West may not be that big. One thing for sure though, getting out of our division looks easier than it's been in some time. We usually finish around 6th overall and 2nd/3rd in our division but this season, 6th overall might be enough to win our division so that's a pretty big change.

The fact they squandered it in the playoffs doesn’t change that the right call was made. You can only judge the decision based on the moment in which it was made. The sentiment expressed in your “favorite” is still 100% correct. Teams cruising to the playoffs (7th place in the league) and largely on the back of their young core don’t subtract from their lineup.

There is a huge difference between “going for it” (which we could definitely say it was too early for) and moving a key piece out to the detriment of a playoff quality roster

You could argue it both ways (I don't think you can say definitively correct of incorrect), but I feel strongly that trading JVR was the way to go. Yes is would have been like you say "to the detriment of a playoff quality roster" but (and this is a huge but), that's short term only while trading him would have given us assets to help us in the future. To put it another way, trading him would have been a detriment to our roster for that one season, but keeping him was a detriment to our roster for multiple future years.

You say it was definitely too early to say we were going for it, I agree and IMO that supports my position - the only time you should be keeping pending UFA's (especially ones you won't be resigning) is when you are going for it. If you're not going for it than keep your powder dry as the saying goes.

I felt that our cup chances that year were near zero, but they should be quite good for many years to come, therefore saving assets for the future would improve our chances of winning a cup over the next 5-10 years and I'm still quite comfortable with saying that was the way to go.

Actually, they weren’t.

If this team was bad after drafting and graduating their young stars, like Montreal or Detroit or Buffalo or San Jose, or Anaheim or countless other examples then yeah you move JVR in his last year for assets, but that wasn’t us. We were good immediately and that changes things completely

If we were good at "drafting and graduating", that's another reason to think very carefully before choosing rentals over futures.

 

[conFABulator]

Every contract is 100% buriable on LTIR. That doesn't mean anything. We chose him over other options in the offseason, when alternatives are asset free. His existence and cap hit likely impacted the decision to trade away Lilegren at a low point in value, and now we're stuck playing worse defensemen, and may need to spend assets trading for one. Purposefully going into LTIR is also not a good thing. It didn't end up being as consequential with Jarnkrok getting injured in pre-season, but there would have been potential to accrue cap space otherwise. He also hasn't been very helpful when he's "healthy" either. Quite frankly, we've been lucky that he's been injured enough for LTIR, instead of being healthy enough to be in and out of the lineup; playing badly more often and only qualifying for IR (that doesn't provide cap relief). In the end, the consequences have been relatively small, but the gamble didn't seem all that calculated from the start.

I guess I have a couple of thoughts in response to this.

The first being that the Maple Leafs were always planning on LTIR this year; LTIR, IR, the Marlies for waiver exempt, emergency recalls, and conditioning stints. They are running a 26 or 27 man roster all year and have been very intentional in how they do this. They started the year with Hakanpaa, Jarnkrok, Dewar and Mermis on the LTIR. I think they always knew the first three were going to start the year there and since then they have added Hakanpaa again and Paccioretty to LTIR.

Secondly, who did we miss out on exactly? We didn't sign Hakanpaa until we broke camp and we already signed Tanev, OEL, Myers and Mermis. What d-men at under $1.5M did we miss out exactly?

And finally, we don't view Liljegren the same at all. He wasn't a fit with Berube and wasn't getting ice time even when Hakanpaa was out. We should be happy to have the 3M off the books and we even got a couple of picks back from him.

Your issues seem to be theoretical rather than things that actually impacted the Leafs and I believe this is the Leafs plan and not "lucky".

 

[Puckstuff]

Yeah, but now we are talking about trading Minten, Cowan, a 1st and a 2nd and whatever else we have to give up to get multi year retention.

Plus if we remove Jarnkrok and Hakanpaa are already LTIR and we are up against the cap, so they don't help us fit those guys in. Kampf going out covers some of space. Anyone else we move out would have to be replaced too, I don't see how we fit them both in and I still don't like the acquisition cost.

If we trade and/or cut Reaves, Kampf, Dewar, and Timmins, keep Hakanpaa and Jarnkrok on LTIR, and move Robertson in any deadline deals, the Leafs will have around $6 million to spend at the deadline. I know some may not like cutting the depth, especially for fans of Dewar, but if it’s to bring in a player like Granlund or a solid center AND a good defenseman, it has to be done.

There's probably enough cap space for a really a good center or a really good D, but likely not both. Although there might be enough cap space to trade for a really good center, and a cheaper D. For example, something like Granlund and Provorov might not be possible on the cap, but acquiring Granlund and a lesser D like Ceci (just as an example don't complain) with double retention, this would work under the cap.

Lineup:
Knies — Matthews — Domi
Pacioretty — Tavares — Marner
McMann — Granlund — Nylander
Lorentz — Holmberg — Grebenkin

Defense:
Rielly — Tanev
OEL — McCabe
Benoit — Ceci
Rifai— Hakanpaa

Goaltending:
Stolarz
Woll

 

[conFABulator]

If we trade and/or cut Reaves, Kampf, Dewar, and Timmins, keep Hakanpaa and Jarnkrok on LTIR, and move Robertson in any deadline deals, the Leafs will have around $6 million to spend at the deadline. I know some may not like cutting the depth, especially for fans of Dewar, but if it’s to bring in a player like Granlund or a solid center AND a good defenseman, it has to be done.

There's probably enough cap space for a really a good center or a really good D, but likely not both. Although there might be enough cap space to trade for a really good center, and a cheaper D. For example, something like Granlund and Provorov might not be possible on the cap, but acquiring Granlund and a lesser D like Ceci (just as an example don't complain) with double retention, this would work under the cap.

Lineup:
Knies — Matthews — Domi
Pacioretty — Tavares — Marner
McMann — Granlund — Nylander
Lorentz — Holmberg — Grebenkin

Defense:
Rielly — Tanev
OEL — McCabe
Benoit — Ceci
Rifai— Hakanpaa

Goaltending:
Stolarz
Woll

You're right, I don'tjke cutting the depth. I fear that fourth line could be useless and unusable in the playoffs. You also dropped a couple of key PKers. I think we might not be able to have any extras would would mean we lose Myers on waivers? What are the assets given up to get two guys with retention from a third team? San Jose has no slots left.